Academy: Gold Coast SUNS Gun Factory

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Anybody know anything about kids in the age group below Scheer and Bowes? Any potential in those kids?

Kid I coached this year (our captain actually) just got accepted into the academy.

Only just turned 12 though, so will be waiting a while
 

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There is a boy moving down to the Coast from Cairns next year by the name of Jacob Heron. Played state 15's and 16's and was named 2nd best in the state under 16's grand final. Played at the same junior club as Bowes (Cairns Saints) and also played in a senior flag this year. He has a lot of potential but not at the same level as Bowes was at his age but keep an eye on him because he's eager to learn and is athletically gifted. I think the move to the Coast will really help his development.
Did any other coast kids get in the best for that grand final?
 
Jacob Dawson was probably a top 3 player for qld this year in the state champs, plays well at U16 level and has played some seniors. A chance for 2017 I would think
 
There is a boy moving down to the Coast from Cairns next year by the name of Jacob Heron. Played state 15's and 16's and was named 2nd best in the state under 16's grand final. Played at the same junior club as Bowes (Cairns Saints) and also played in a senior flag this year. He has a lot of potential but not at the same level as Bowes was at his age but keep an eye on him because he's eager to learn and is athletically gifted. I think the move to the Coast will really help his development.
Do you know his background? Was he born in Cairns or has he moved from the southern states at a young age? It seems like the Suns' academy zone is finally starting to bear fruit. Having said that, the Cowboys winning the NRL Premiership this year is likely to see some future prospects switching codes.
Imagine if we ended up with Bowes and Scheer then were able to use Melbs pick on someone like Jonty Scharenberg. Laughing!
We can work this out quite easily if we make a few assumptions. Let's just say for argument's sake that the Suns finish 9th in 2016 and the Demons finish 12th. Let's also say Port and Richmond finish 6th and 7th in this hypothetical situation. Based on that, presuming they don't change anything, the Suns hold these assets:

Pick 7 (1644 points)
Pick 10 (1395 points)
Pick 28 (677 points)
Pick 30 (629 points)
Pick 31 (606 points)
Pick 46 (331 points)
Pick 64 (101 points)

So that means the Suns have a total of 2344 points in the second, third and fourth rounds. That means the highest bid the Suns can match without giving up a first rounder is pick 3. If Bowes ends up absolutely smashing it next year and was bid on with the third pick then the Suns would have a tough choice to make with their third first round pick. It'd either be pick up Scheer with the 10th pick or let someone else take him as the Suns wouldn't have any picks left in the first two rounds. If a bid one Bowes/Scheer doesn't come until, let's say pick 11, then the situation is far more manageable for the Suns.

Pick 11 is worth 1329 points which means the Suns would need to give up picks 28, 30 and 64 (1407) which would give them a surplus of 78 points and the club still has pick 31 (606 points) and pick 46 (331 points). That leaves 1015 points left over which is enough to match pick 18 at the highest.

So there you have it. In a perfect world, the Suns get four picks in the first round, two being top 10 picks and the other two being academy players (Bowes and Scheer). Now everyone probably understands why the Suns were stockpiling future picks.
 
Do you know his background? Was he born in Cairns or has he moved from the southern states at a young age? It seems like the Suns' academy zone is finally starting to bear fruit. Having said that, the Cowboys winning the NRL Premiership this year is likely to see some future prospects switching codes.

We can work this out quite easily if we make a few assumptions. Let's just say for argument's sake that the Suns finish 9th in 2016 and the Demons finish 12th. Let's also say Port and Richmond finish 6th and 7th in this hypothetical situation. Based on that, presuming they don't change anything, the Suns hold these assets:

Pick 7 (1644 points)
Pick 10 (1395 points)
Pick 28 (677 points)
Pick 30 (629 points)
Pick 31 (606 points)
Pick 46 (331 points)
Pick 64 (101 points)

So that means the Suns have a total of 2344 points in the second, third and fourth rounds. That means the highest bid the Suns can match without giving up a first rounder is pick 3. If Bowes ends up absolutely smashing it next year and was bid on with the third pick then the Suns would have a tough choice to make with their third first round pick. It'd either be pick up Scheer with the 10th pick or let someone else take him as the Suns wouldn't have any picks left in the first two rounds. If a bid one Bowes/Scheer doesn't come until, let's say pick 11, then the situation is far more manageable for the Suns.

Pick 11 is worth 1329 points which means the Suns would need to give up picks 28, 30 and 64 (1407) which would give them a surplus of 78 points and the club still has pick 31 (606 points) and pick 46 (331 points). That leaves 1015 points left over which is enough to match pick 18 at the highest.

So there you have it. In a perfect world, the Suns get four picks in the first round, two being top 10 picks and the other two being academy players (Bowes and Scheer). Now everyone probably understands why the Suns were stockpiling future picks.

Great informative post - I'm a lot more across this now than before I read your post.

As an assumption of worst case you could say that Bowes may get a bid at 7 and Scheer at 14 which without reading the exact points if I'm understanding this correctly would then cause us to need to use a 1st rd pick.

With the possibility that we may either lose a gun player next year (e.g. Prestia, O'Meara) or that we may look to trade out a couple of players that Eade isn't happy with (e.g. McKenzie, Russell, Matera) it is likely that we could end up with more draft picks anyway which can help us retain our current 2x 1st rd picks in that scenario.
 
Great informative post - I'm a lot more across this now than before I read your post.

As an assumption of worst case you could say that Bowes may get a bid at 7 and Scheer at 14 which without reading the exact points if I'm understanding this correctly would then cause us to need to use a 1st rd pick.

With the possibility that we may either lose a gun player next year (e.g. Prestia, O'Meara) or that we may look to trade out a couple of players that Eade isn't happy with (e.g. McKenzie, Russell, Matera) it is likely that we could end up with more draft picks anyway which can help us retain our current 2x 1st rd picks in that scenario.
I actually forgot to account for the 20% discount a club is given if a player is academy listed! Okay, let's take your example of Bowes and Scheer being bid on with picks 7 and 14. Pick 7 is worth 1644 points so, with the 20% discount (328 points), the Suns would need to come up with 1316 points to secure that player. Going by my numbers in my previous post, the Suns would use picks 30 (629 points), 31 (606 points) and 64 (101 points) to come up with 1336 points, leaving 20 points left over. With that academy player secured, let's say the next bid comes at 14 (1161 points) like you've suggested. With the 20% discount (232 points) the Suns need to come up with 929 points to secure the second academy player. Using picks 28 (677 points) and 46 (331 points), the Suns would come up with 1008 points and successfully secure both academy players without losing either of their first round picks. In fact, they'd still have 99 points left over.

So, now with the academy discount being accounted for, the Suns are a very good chance to secure both academy players and keep their two first rounders. The only thing that could really stop that from happening is if both players are bid on in the top 10 but that will only happen if Bowes and Scheer actually warrant top 10 picks and then the Suns can just use one of their top 10 picks to secure one academy player and then use their second rounders to secure the other top 10 academy player. So, in that hypothetical situation, the Suns should secure three top 10 draft picks (two being academy players) and perhaps even have a second rounder left over. It's a good situation to be in.
 
Great informative post - I'm a lot more across this now than before I read your post.

As an assumption of worst case you could say that Bowes may get a bid at 7 and Scheer at 14 which without reading the exact points if I'm understanding this correctly would then cause us to need to use a 1st rd pick.

With the possibility that we may either lose a gun player next year (e.g. Prestia, O'Meara) or that we may look to trade out a couple of players that Eade isn't happy with (e.g. McKenzie, Russell, Matera) it is likely that we could end up with more draft picks anyway which can help us retain our current 2x 1st rd picks in that scenario.

Been told that if draft was held today Bowes would go top 5 and Scheer a 1st rounder , but a year is a long time in footy at this age . Also another thing we are not counting in is a another academy player coming on this season.
 
Been told that if draft was held today Bowes would go top 5 and Scheer a 1st rounder , but a year is a long time in footy at this age . Also another thing we are not counting in is a another academy player coming on this season.

We haven't had 1 worth drafting in 5 years, we've got 2 locked in for this year for 1st rd and we think maybe another one will shoot into top 30 calculations...probably a long shot
 
Here are 11 kids that we need to be rated higher than our academy kids for this to happen:

Jacob Allison (BL Academy)
Sam Petrevski-Seton
Sam Powell-Pepper
Jonty Scharenberg
Ben Ainsworth
Harrison Macreadie (GWS Academy)
Jarrod Berry
Jy Sympkin
Will Brodie
Brandon Parfitt
Alex Witherden

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-09/trade-future-picks-or-get-the-cream-of-the-2016-crop
I took note of a few of those players on GF day, Sam Petrevski-Seton - Jonty Scharenberg - Harrison Macreadie. All played well.
 
Been told that if draft was held today Bowes would go top 5 and Scheer a 1st rounder , but a year is a long time in footy at this age . Also another thing we are not counting in is a another academy player coming on this season.
That seems highly unlikely. When the academy boys play together, Bowes and Scheer should be getting the most touches of the GC crop. The only way I could see it happening is if a KPF from the Suns' academy suddenly decides to become a junior superstar next year and kicks a lot of goals. Outside of that, the chances of the Gold Coast having three academy players bid on in the first round are extremely low IMO.

When you think about it, GWS should really be the only team having three of more academy players bid on in the first round any given year because they have the Riverina region that allows their players to compete in the TAC Cup competition every week and go through the Victorian junior program. They managed to secure Hopper, Kennedy and Himmelberg in this year's draft, all inside the first round. It's a big advantage to have.
 
That seems highly unlikely. When the academy boys play together, Bowes and Scheer should be getting the most touches of the GC crop. The only way I could see it happening is if a KPF from the Suns' academy suddenly decides to become a junior superstar next year and kicks a lot of goals. Outside of that, the chances of the Gold Coast having three academy players bid on in the first round are extremely low IMO.

When you think about it, GWS should really be the only team having three of more academy players bid on in the first round any given year because they have the Riverina region that allows their players to compete in the TAC Cup competition every week and go through the Victorian junior program. They managed to secure Hopper, Kennedy and Himmelberg in this year's draft, all inside the first round. It's a big advantage to have.
Think you'll find Eddie and his mates are moving to shut this down by taking Riverina / Northern Murray leagues out of GWS Academy zone.
What's the bet they also try to lower number of games played for father son qualification as well ?
 

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Think you'll find Eddie and his mates are moving to shut this down by taking Riverina / Northern Murray leagues out of GWS Academy zone.
What's the bet they also try to lower number of games played for father son qualification as well ?
I think you're right. Eddie and co. have no doubt already made complaints about the Riverina region being included in GWS's zone but it doesn't really make sense to take the zone border higher than the state border. How high is high enough? I mean look at Matthew Kennedy as an example, who was taken with the 13th pick in the national draft this year. He grew up in Collingullie, which is a town north-west of Wagga Wagga. Now when you consider Wagga Wagga is further north on the map than Canberra, you can't exactly argue it shouldn't be included in GWS's zone. Matthew Flynn, who was taken with the 41st pick this year, grew up in Narrandera and if you look on the map you'll find that Narrandera is even more north than Colinguillie. I just don't know how the AFL could split the Riverina region fairly. It just makes more sense to have the NSW-VIC border be the GWS zone border. Whether Eddie likes it or not; Albury, Wagga Wagga and the like ARE in the New South Wales and the AFL desperately wants more New South Welshmen in the league.

If nothing else, the academies are increasing the amount of talented kids available in each draft class. When you consider more than half of the Australian population hails from NSW or QLD, it just makes sense to run the academies. The draft pool is increasing each year yet the number of players in the AFL isn't. That means overall standard of the league will get better as the academies continue to bear fruit.
 
I think you're right. Eddie and co. have no doubt already made complaints about the Riverina region being included in GWS's zone but it doesn't really make sense to take the zone border higher than the state border. How high is high enough? I mean look at Matthew Kennedy as an example, who was taken with the 13th pick in the national draft this year. He grew up in Collingullie, which is a town north-west of Wagga Wagga. Now when you consider Wagga Wagga is further north on the map than Canberra, you can't exactly argue it shouldn't be included in GWS's zone. Matthew Flynn, who was taken with the 41st pick this year, grew up in Narrandera and if you look on the map you'll find that Narrandera is even more north than Colinguillie. I just don't know how the AFL could split the Riverina region fairly. It just makes more sense to have the NSW-VIC border be the GWS zone border. Whether Eddie likes it or not; Albury, Wagga Wagga and the like ARE in the New South Wales and the AFL desperately wants more New South Welshmen in the league.

If nothing else, the academies are increasing the amount of talented kids available in each draft class. When you consider more than half of the Australian population hails from NSW or QLD, it just makes sense to run the academies. The draft pool is increasing each year yet the number of players in the AFL isn't. That means overall standard of the league will get better as the academies continue to bear fruit.
I think they are looking more where these guys are based. Many are using their parents postcodes while basically playing TAC cup as Victorians. Being at 'school' in Victoria gives them best of both worlds. Play for NSW but also for a Vic TAC team. I'm not an Eddie fan but can see his point....
 
I think they are looking more where these guys are based. Many are using their parents postcodes while basically playing TAC cup as Victorians. Being at 'school' in Victoria gives them best of both worlds. Play for NSW but also for a Vic TAC team. I'm not an Eddie fan but can see his point....
The problem I have with what you're say is that it sounds like they are trying to restrict where someone can play their junior footy. Take Steven May as an example. He is a proud Northern Territorian but moved to Melbourne around 15 years of age to further his development through a scholarship at Melbourne Grammar. The Suns had zone access to players from the Northern Territory in 2010 and they zoned May at the conclusion of that year, despite spending his last 2-3 years of junior footy in Melbourne. Is it fair that the Gold Coast were able to zone him? Should you really be exempt of your heritage just because you decide to play a bit of your junior footy in a different state?

Harbrow is another example. He moved to Maroopna for the season he became draft eligible and started playing for the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup. Had the Suns' academy existed at the time, should they no longer have zone access to Harbrow (who spent around 17 years of his life in Cairns) because he decided to play his last year of junior football in the strongest junior football competition in country?
 
The problem I have with what you're say is that it sounds like they are trying to restrict where someone can play their junior footy. Take Steven May as an example. He is a proud Northern Territorian but moved to Melbourne around 15 years of age to further his development through a scholarship at Melbourne Grammar. The Suns had zone access to players from the Northern Territory in 2010 and they zoned May at the conclusion of that year, despite spending his last 2-3 years of junior footy in Melbourne. Is it fair that the Gold Coast were able to zone him? Should you really be exempt of your heritage just because you decide to play a bit of your junior footy in a different state?

Harbrow is another example. He moved to Maroopna for the season he became draft eligible and started playing for the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup. Had the Suns' academy existed at the time, should they no longer have zone access to Harbrow (who spent around 17 years of his life in Cairns) because he decided to play his last year of junior football in the strongest junior football competition in country?
(Wearing my Eddie cap again ) The examples you cite above are pre academy - so are not applicable. The rules for Academy selection say you must be a member of the Academy, and reside in the Academy area for the 5 years immediately prior to being drafted.
But what is the meaning of reside?
Is being at boarding school full time in another State. possibly playing in a higher level comp and gaining a higher recognition and experience meeting this criteria ? Playing for NSW is not the issue - its where they reside. Do they reside with their parents even though they are away for 80% of the year.
A question mark also hangs over how much some of these GWS kids "away at school " actually spend attending their Academy training in comparison to those at other academies.
You'll recall the Suns Lachie Weller case all hinged on his qualified residency so we have been burned already. .
Personally have no issue with GWS getting NSW kids this way - But Eddie and his mates definitely do - especially because many of them are bloody good ...and they would like them !!!
 
(Wearing my Eddie cap again ) The examples you cite above are pre academy - so are not applicable. The rules for Academy selection say you must be a member of the Academy, and reside in the Academy area for the 5 years immediately prior to being drafted.
But what is the meaning of reside?
Is being at boarding school full time in another State. possibly playing in a higher level comp and gaining a higher recognition and experience meeting this criteria ? Playing for NSW is not the issue - its where they reside. Do they reside with their parents even though they are away for 80% of the year.
A question mark also hangs over how much some of these GWS kids "away at school " actually spend attending their Academy training in comparison to those at other academies.
You'll recall the Suns Lachie Weller case all hinged on his qualified residency so we have been burned already. .
Personally have no issue with GWS getting NSW kids this way - But Eddie and his mates definitely do - especially because many of them are bloody good ...and they would like them !!!
I see what you're saying but there are loopholes here even if you are more strict with where a player resides. For example, let's say we have a player who lives just over the border in Corowa and has played all his junior footy for Corowa-Rutherglen in the Ovens and Murray junior league. Let's say he's placed in the Giants' academy at 14. He continues to live in Corowa and graduates his way into the seniors around 16. The following year he's picked up by the Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup team (about 35 mins from Corowa) and continues to fulfill in his Giants/NSW commitments. By the time he turns 18, he's playing for the Giants academy, NSW U18s and the Murray Bushrangers while still living in Corowa. He's then academy drafted by GWS.

Has he done anything wrong? Can you really stop this from happening?
 
I see what you're saying but there are loopholes here even if you are more strict with where a player resides. For example, let's say we have a player who lives just over the border in Corowa and has played all his junior footy for Corowa-Rutherglen in the Ovens and Murray junior league. Let's say he's placed in the Giants' academy at 14. He continues to live in Corowa and graduates his way into the seniors around 16. The following year he's picked up by the Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup team (about 35 mins from Corowa) and continues to fulfill in his Giants/NSW commitments. By the time he turns 18, he's playing for the Giants academy, NSW U18s and the Murray Bushrangers while still living in Corowa. He's then academy drafted by GWS.

Has he done anything wrong? Can you really stop this from happening?
No problem with that at all - he has done it all while still residing in Corowa. He has not left the GWS zone.
Your example is why Eddie wants to remove certain leagues from the GWS zone.
I say boundary should be State border and GWS can access those that stay permanently resident in NSW. From there they can only reallistically play for Murray Bushrangers at TAC level ?
 
The biggest issue with the boys on the Border is that they would have played AFL without the Academy. That is AFL country first of all, with lots of development pathways including the Murray Bushrangers. The same kind of pathways that someone from Bairnsdale or Horsham gets.

The Academies should produce players who would not have made it to the AFL without the Academy. This includes for players who love AFL but would likely miss out on AFL quality coaching and development. Kennedy from north of Wagga fits. Bowes from Cairns fits. Anyone from Sydney or Brisbane fits.

The boys along the Murray? Not so much. Don't see the difference b/w a kid from Bairnsdale or one from Albury. Both have access to the TAC Cup pathway or a decent local league (like the McKay boys, one of which did not play TAC Cup). But if they are good they are locked into GWS.

The GWS zone should start closer to Wagga. Maybe 75km north of the Murray?
 
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The biggest issue with the boys on the Border is that they would have played AFL without the Academy. That is AFL country first of all, with lots of development pathways including the Murray Bushrangers. The same kind of pathways that someone from Bairnsdale or Horsham gets.

The Academies should produce players who would not have made it to the AFL without the Academy. This includes for players who love AFL but would likely miss out on AFL quality coaching and development. Kennedy from north of Wagga fits. Bowes from Cairns fits. Anyone from Sydney or Brisbane fits.

The boys along the Murray? Not so much. Don't see the difference b/w a kid from Bairnsdale or one from Albury? Both have access to the TAC Cup pathway or a decent local league (like the McKay boys, one of which did not play TAC Cup). But if they are good they are locked into GWS.

The GWS zone should start closer to Wagga. Maybe 75km north of the Murray?

Love your work Stroppy - just stripping the argument back to its core.

AFL have too much money tied up in GWS to let logic get in the way of policy on the run.
 
No problem with that at all - he has done it all while still residing in Corowa. He has not left the GWS zone.
Your example is why Eddie wants to remove certain leagues from the GWS zone.
I say boundary should be State border and GWS can access those that stay permanently resident in NSW. From there they can only reallistically play for Murray Bushrangers at TAC level ?

Well I'm sure the Murray Bushrangers would be extremely happy with that outcome but it doesn't actually achieve what Eddie wants. The Riverina NSW kids will still come through the TAC Cup system. Most of the academy players are placed in the GWS academy/NSW development programs at 14/15. They don't play TAC Cup until 16 at the earliest!

The biggest issue with the boys on the Border is that they would have played AFL without the Academy. That is AFL country first of all, with lots of development pathways including the Murray Bushrangers. The same kind of pathways that someone from Bairnsdale or Horsham gets.

The Academies should produce players who would not have made it to the AFL without the Academy. This includes for players who love AFL but would likely miss out on AFL quality coaching and development. Kennedy from north of Wagga fits. Bowes from Cairns fits. Anyone from Sydney or Brisbane fits.

The boys along the Murray? Not so much. Don't see the difference b/w a kid from Bairnsdale or one from Albury? Both have access to the TAC Cup pathway or a decent local league (like the McKay boys, one of which did not play TAC Cup). But if they are good they are locked into GWS.

The GWS zone should start closer to Wagga. Maybe 75km north of the Murray?
I think it's pretty harsh to say anyone immediately north of the Murray can't be a part of the Giants' academy, but can play for NSW. You really have to understand the culture of the area. Despite Albury and Wodonga being on opposite sides of the border, the area is very much interconnected historically, a lot like Tweed Heads and the Gold Coast.

Creating an imaginary zone border just screams of Eddie getting his way again. Eddie had his eye on Nick Riewoldt back in the late 90s and led the argument for Southport to be removed from Brisbane's zone in the hope that his beloved Pies would land the future number 1 pick in Riewoldt. Karma came around to bite Eddie on his behind and Riewoldt became a Saint but that's an example of a great Queenslander getting lost to the system because the AFL let Eddie get his way. Can you imagine what Riewoldt could have done for Queensland footy if he was a Lion?
 
I think it's pretty harsh to say anyone immediately north of the Murray can't be a part of the Giants' academy, but can play for NSW. You really have to understand the culture of the area. Despite Albury and Wodonga being on opposite sides of the border, the area is very much interconnected historically, a lot like Tweed Heads and the Gold Coast.

Creating an imaginary zone border just screams of Eddie getting his way again.

Originally from down that way and went to school in Albury for 8 years. So know it more than pretty well. Especially that it can 'lean' either towards Sydney or towards Melbourne, depending on what you are talking about (cricket, football, uni, etc). Cricket to NSW but football wise it leans towards Melbourne and the AFL. The O&M is the biggest winter league by a fair margin.

Which is why players from Albury who want to play AFL will have no problems getting to the AFL, usually through the Bushrangers. The biggest issue for me is that good players have been coming out of the Albury region organically for years. Without any academy. It just seems strange that it is an academy region, especially with the TAC cup pathway there for juniors including a strong u16 program.

As for zone borders, already have them. The border b/w the Lions and the Suns, b/w GWS and the Swans, and in this case, the state border between Albury and Wodonga.

As you said, the area is similar to Tweed and the GC. But on one side, GWS academy. On the other, open draft. Yet the players intermingle all the time. People living in Wodonga go to school in Albury and vice versa. And they play football wherever. A sensible geographic boundary but nonsensical for footy. It would be like the Tweed being part of Sydney's zone just b/c it is NSW.

Albury will be in the draft news soon though (although Cal Twomey has been on this for a couple of years). A couple of young guns are from Albury and on the way in the next 2 years. And will play for the Bushrangers in the TAC cup, having played in the u16 TAC cup team. If one or both of them are top 10 picks then let the whinging commence.
 
We haven't had 1 worth drafting in 5 years, we've got 2 locked in for this year for 1st rd and we think maybe another one will shoot into top 30 calculations...probably a long shot

Yeah you might be right , but like our senior team our academy was hit with injuries last season , have heard Didymus Blanket will be in the academy again after overcoming injury last season , watch out for him Suns red hot on him.
 
Does anyone know if Valentino Beynon is a part of our academy? He is a ruckman from what I hear. The reason I ask is because he is the son of the famous Candyman and I think it would be interesting to see us draft him.
 

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