Adrian Dodoro: Football’s Biggest Fraud IMO

[Richo83]

I don't think either team's drafting has been much chop lately. With Essendon, especially early, they tend to draft midfielders with low ceilings or tweeners without a position who "could play anywhere" but don't play anywhere well.

 

[La Dispute]

I don't think either team's drafting has been much chop lately. With Essendon, especially early, they tend to draft midfielders with low ceilings or tweeners without a position who "could play anywhere" but don't play anywhere well.

I could see Parish being akin to someone like Brandon Ellis who is a solid role player who can play a few different positions, but isn't particularly amazing at any of them. The problem is when you're relying on these guys to come on and become elite players, when they don't really have the capacity to do so.

You'd never expect Darcy Parish to be a key stakeholder.

 

[Ambrosia]

Fisher, 2016.

This is where the bias is silly. Fisher has been dropped twice this year and isn’t even playing as a mid

 

[Daine]

Love the excuses for Dod’s drafting, but you are very light on for facts. Hindsight is a wonderful thing..you really should use it re Carltons drafting after the first round.

2019 - too soon to tell
2018 - Stocker (19), no picks until 66 (O’Dwyer) and 70 (Ben silvagni) both speculative KPP. Pre-season supp selections Gibbons & Cottrell
2017 - DeKoning (30)
2016 - Fisher (25), Williamson (61)
2015 - Cuningham (23), JSOS (53)

Granted that pre SOS we were the worst in the league at drafting young talent.

I listed a bunch of facts, which one do you disagree with? The fact that McKay was rated lower than Essendon's picks and at 200cm and probably wouldn't work that well with Daniher? Or the fact that Curnow was arrested before the draft? Or the fact that Francis was a highly rated player in the draft? Which one do you have a problem with?
The fact is, whether it was SOS or someone else, you haven't drafted a single player of note outside the first round in what eight years? And you took a LOT more players than the ones you listed, they were just all terrible. None of the late selection gems that all other teams have got. Obviously the head of list management before SOS was the worst of all time, but it doesn't seem like SOS has done much better to me, besides very obvious picks.

 

[Richo83]

I could see Parish being akin to someone like Brandon Ellis who is a solid role player who can play a few different positions, but isn't particularly amazing at any of them. The problem is when you're relying on these guys to come on and become elite players, when they don't really have the capacity to do so.

You'd never expect Darcy Parish to be a key stakeholder.

Ellis is probably a bit more outside than Parish but has better spread and attacking abilities, but it's not bad call. They're both consistent but rarely hit great heights. Ellis has played star games for Richmond in the past as a midfielder, just never had the skills to become a key midfield rotation, and Richmond hasn't missed a beat without him in the side. Parish doesn't scare me as a fan of an opposition team, and I'd honestly take Bolton over him every day of the week.

 

[La Dispute]

This is where the bias is silly. Fisher has been dropped twice this year and isn’t even playing as a mid

He played round 1, got injured in the break, had almost a month out, and then had to work his way back into the team - he's never been dropped though.

Positionally he's playing off a forward flank and then rotating off a wing, but he's a far better midfielder than Parish when he plays in there. His first three years he almost exclusively played off a wing. It's hard to get a gig in there though at the moment with so many quality players vying for spots at the moment.

Plus he has elite goal sense and kicking skills, so it makes sense to use him as a link player. We've certainly been lacking his class in the forward half.

He's more well-rounded and highly skilled player than Parish.

 

[La Dispute]

Ellis is probably a bit more outside than Parish but has better spread and attacking abilities, but it's not bad call. They're both consistent but rarely hit great heights. Ellis has played star games for Richmond in the past as a midfielder, just never had the skills to become a key midfield rotation, and Richmond hasn't missed a beat without him in the side. Parish doesn't scare me as a fan of an opposition team, and I'd honestly take Bolton over him every day of the week.

If you're going to take the next step as midfielder you have to have some point of difference. Parish isn't quick, isn't an elite kick, isn't strong and isn't particularly creative. He also doesn't rack up much of the footy - 18 touches for an outside mid is pretty average, and it's not as though he's taking too many attacking options with his disposals either.

If he was hitting 30-35 touches a week and playing as a permanent link player you would probably take that, but Parish is statistically declining. It kind of speaks to being a very good junior midfielder, but struggling to find an extra bow when you reach AFL level. Granted Essendon haven't been known for their strong development, it's hard to see where he finds he niche. Maybe, like Ellis, they trial him off a back flank and just let him freewheel?

 

[Ambrosia]

He played round 1, got injured in the break, had almost a month out, and then had to work his way back into the team - he's never been dropped though.

Positionally he's playing off a forward flank and then rotating off a wing, but he's a far better midfielder than Parish when he plays in there. His first three years he almost exclusively played off a wing. It's hard to get a gig in there though at the moment with so many quality players vying for spots at the moment.

Plus he has elite goal sense and kicking skills, so it makes sense to use him as a link player. We've certainly been lacking his class in the forward half.

He's a far more well-rounded and highly skilled player than Parish.

You have to wonder how Carlton have lost any games with such quality not playing.

 

[Richo83]

If you're going to take the next step as midfielder you have to have some point of difference. Parish isn't quick, isn't an elite kick, isn't strong and isn't particularly creative. He also doesn't rack up much of the footy - 18 touches for an outside mid is pretty average, and it's not as though he's taking too many attacking options with his disposals either.

Yeah 76th for disposals per game. 99th for score involvements, and 153th for meters gained. 43th for inside 50s is good but 134th for goal assists tells me he's not that creative with his touches. He's a middle of the road player without many weapons. A nice player who will mow your grass and feed your cat.

If he was hitting 30-35 touches a week and playing as a permanent link player you would probably take that, but Parish is statistically declining. It kind of speaks to being a very good junior midfielder, but struggling to find an extra bow when you reach AFL level. Granted Essendon haven't been known for their strong development, it's hard to see where he finds he niche. Maybe, like Ellis, they trial him off a back flank and just let him freewheel?

30-35 touches per game is a lot, no player averaged 35 last season. But yeah, he probably doesn't get enough of the ball or is creative enough. Not enough of an inside presence (87th for contested possessions) either. He's a player who will probably help them a bit more than some other players, but is holding them back from becoming an elite midfield unless he drastically improves. I don't see him as a back flanker and they already have better back flankers anyway.

 

[Daine]

If you're going to take the next step as midfielder you have to have some point of difference. Parish isn't quick, isn't an elite kick, isn't strong and isn't particularly creative. He also doesn't rack up much of the footy - 18 touches for an outside mid is pretty average, and it's not as though he's taking too many attacking options with his disposals either.

If he was hitting 30-35 touches a week and playing as a permanent link player you would probably take that, but Parish is statistically declining. It kind of speaks to being a very good junior midfielder, but struggling to find an extra bow when you reach AFL level. Granted Essendon haven't been known for their strong development, it's hard to see where he finds he niche. Maybe, like Ellis, they trial him off a back flank and just let him freewheel?

Parish finds the ball just fine playing his natural role as an inside mid. Those stats are quite meaningless considering he has played forward a lot.
He is a natural inside mid who is very clean at ground level, good clearance work by hand, and good work rate with his second/third efforts. Needs to tidy up his kicking and decision making though.

He has been playing at the coal face more lately and has averaged 24 disposals, 5 clearances and 4 tackles per game over his last four games.

 

[Love the Drake]

I listed a bunch of facts, which one do you disagree with? The fact that McKay was rated lower than Essendon's picks and at 200cm and probably wouldn't work that well with Daniher? Or the fact that Curnow was arrested before the draft? Or the fact that Francis was a highly rated player in the draft? Which one do you have a problem with?
The fact is, whether it was SOS or someone else, you haven't drafted a single player of note outside the first round in what eight years? And you took a LOT more players than the ones you listed, they were just all terrible. None of the late selection gems that all other teams have got. Obviously the head of list management before SOS was the worst of all time, but it doesn't seem like SOS has done much better to me, besides very obvious picks.

Interesting. A couple of posts ago you made the most ridiculous statement, and I quote “You would have to have the worst drafting record in the league for finding players outside of round 1”. I stated the FACT that we had drafted 7 Promising youngsters after the first round and named them but now we took a LOT of other players that were terrible. What a pathetic resp. Your statement is shot down in flames so you post that tripe.

 

[La Dispute]

Parish finds the ball just fine playing his natural role as an inside mid. Those stats are quite meaningless considering he has played forward a lot.
He is a natural inside mid who is very clean at ground level, good clearance work by hand, and good work rate with his second/third efforts. Needs to tidy up his kicking and decision making though.

He has been playing at the coal face more lately and has averaged 24 disposals, 5 clearances and 4 tackles per game over his last four games.

A lot of those characteristics are just bare minimum requirements for midfielders. Second and third efforts are pre-requisites for playing in at the stoppages, but all the other stuff (being clean, quick decisions) don't set him apart from other AFL standard midfielders. Jack Redden, Brad Ebert, George Hewett do the same things for their respective clubs.

Some players are just career B-graders.

 

[Daine]

Interesting. A couple of posts ago you made the most ridiculous statement, and I quote “You would have to have the worst drafting record in the league for finding players outside of round 1”. I stated the FACT that we had drafted 7 Promising youngsters after the first round and named them but now we took a LOT of other players that were terrible. What a pathetic resp. Your statement is shot down in flames so you post that tripe.

I am not talking about 'promising' players. I am talking about ready made good players. You do have the worst record clearly, as you can only name kids that haven't done **** all so far.
Surely you have one in eight years? I am giving you a LOT of leeway here. If you response to my criticism is players like Fisher, Williamson, Stocker etc. you have totally misunderstood my post. We will just have to agree to disagree. Maybe my reply was pathetic or maybe your list of players is. Time will tell.

 

[Love the Drake]

Parish finds the ball just fine playing his natural role as an inside mid. Those stats are quite meaningless considering he has played forward a lot.
He is a natural inside mid who is very clean at ground level, good clearance work by hand, and good work rate with his second/third efforts. Needs to tidy up his kicking and decision making though.

He has been playing at the coal face more lately and has averaged 24 disposals, 5 clearances and 4 tackles per game over his last four games.

Parish is a dime a dozen small midfielder who has minimal impact on games. He is behind Shiel, McGrath and Merrett. He is a 2nd round draft quality player. Nowhere near a pick 5. Dodo absolutely stuffed that one up.

 

[Daine]

A lot of those characteristics are just bare minimum requirements for midfielders. Second and third efforts are pre-requisites for playing in at the stoppages, but all the other stuff (being clean, quick decisions) don't set him apart from other AFL standard midfielders. Jack Redden, Brad Ebert, George Hewett do the same things for their respective clubs.

Some players are just career B-graders.

I agree to a point, but fisher hasn't even shown those attributes consistently yet and you call him a better midfielder than Parish. I don't think Parish will be a superstar, but I think you have misrepresented him in your posts. You even called him an outside mid iirc. which he clearly is not.

 

[Daine]

Parish is a dime a dozen small midfielder who has minimal impact on games. He is behind Shiel, McGrath and Merrett. He is a 2nd round draft quality player. Nowhere near a pick 5. Dodo absolutely stuffed that one up.

Disagree. I don't care where he was drafted, because unlike carlton we can find players from round 2 onwards. So it doesn't really matter that he was pick 5 to me. I think at worst he will be a good roleplayer, and I'm not sure SPS will even be that.

 

[La Dispute]

I agree to a point, but fisher hasn't even shown those attributes consistently yet and you call him better than Parish. I don't think Parish will be a superstar, but I think you have misrepresented him in your posts. You even called him an outside mid iirc. which he clear is not.

Of course he has. He's been showing his class, goal sense and elite kicking skills for years (averaged 20 possessions in his second year) but we've been rubbish so no one has taken notice.

The problem with someone like Parish is they get an inflated rating due to their draft selection. Parish was talked up as early as 2014 as a top pick, and he gets the benefit of some positive press going into the AFL despite not doing anything exceptional once he'd got there. At this stage, in his fifth year in the system, he's nothing more than an OK player with no real upside.

He's actually statistically worse at this stage of his career than he was in his first year.

 

[Love the Drake]

I am not talking about 'promising' players. I am talking about ready made good players. You do have the worst record clearly, as you can only name kids that haven't done fu** all so far.
Surely you have one in eight years? I am giving you a LOT of leeway here. If you response to my criticism is players like Fisher, Williamson, Stocker etc. you have totally misunderstood my post. We will just have to agree to disagree. Maybe my reply was pathetic or maybe your list of players is. Time will tell.

Time will tell how Ridiculous your statement- “You would have to have the worst drafting record in the league for finding players outside of round 1” is, when we already have 7 of those selections playing regular senior footy. Many of them still in the I fan of their footballing career. Are we judging Essendon youngsters by your standards or are they all champions?

 

[Ambrosia]

Parish finds the ball just fine playing his natural role as an inside mid. Those stats are quite meaningless considering he has played forward a lot.
He is a natural inside mid who is very clean at ground level, good clearance work by hand, and good work rate with his second/third efforts. Needs to tidy up his kicking and decision making though.

He has been playing at the coal face more lately and has averaged 24 disposals, 5 clearances and 4 tackles per game over his last four games.

have no idea why we kept playing Smith in the midfield for so long this year

 

[Daine]

Of course he has. He's been showing his class, goal sense and elite kicking skills for years (averaged 20 possessions in his second year) but we've been rubbish so no one has taken notice.

The problem with someone like Parish is they get an inflated rating due to their draft selection. Parish was talked up as early as 2014 as a top pick, and he gets the benefit of some positive press going into the AFL despite not doing anything exceptional once he'd got there. At this stage, in his fifth year in the system, he's nothing more than an OK player with no real upside.

He's actually statistically worse at this stage of his career than he was in his first year.

My problem is the double standards you are showing when comparing Fisher to Parish. You criticize Parish and use statistics to back that up in part, but those same stats condemn your own player. Fisher averages 15.2 disposals and 1 clearance per game. He might end up being a good midfielder but from what we have seen he is far from Parish in many key areas as a midfielder. Also it is rubbish to suggest that Parish has 'no real upside'. We have already seen some big improvement in a few of his very recent games as he is spending more time at the coal face.
You can't really compare Parish's stats this season anyways due to the shorter quarters.

 

[Daine]

Time will tell how Ridiculous your statement- “You would have to have the worst drafting record in the league for finding players outside of round 1” is, when we already have 7 of those selections playing regular senior footy. Many of them still in the I fan of their footballing career. Are we judging Essendon youngsters by your standards or are they all champions?

I am not even saying it has to be a 'youngster'. EVERY single team has promising young players, but only one has barely any talent taken outside of the first round in nearly a decade.
You claim you named 7 selections playing regular senior footy - I call bs. Stocker 5 career games. De Koning 5 (3 this season), Williamson a mediocre hbfer who averages under 10 disposals per game,JSOS and Cuningham bog average.
Fisher is decent but if that's the best you can come up with you have proven my point, sorry.

 

[Love the Drake]

Disagree. I don't care where he was drafted, because unlike carlton we can find players from round 2 onwards. So it doesn't really matter that he was pick 5 to me. I think at worst he will be a good roleplayer, and I'm not sure SPS will even be that.

Your defence of Parish a pick 5 ‘role player’ is comedy gold. Keep them coming.

 

[Daine]

Your defence of Parish a pick 5 ‘role player’ is comedy gold. Keep them coming.

Thanks. As is your list of 'quality' players taken outside of the first round.

 

[Love the Drake]

I am not even saying it has to be a 'youngster'. EVERY single team has promising young players, but only one has barely any talent taken outside of the first round in nearly a decade.
You claim you named 7 selections playing regular senior footy - I call bs. Stocker 5 career games. De Koning 5 (3 this season), Williamson a mediocre hbfer who averages under 10 disposals per game,JSOS and Cuningham bog average.
Fisher is decent but if that's the best you can come up with you have proven my point, sorry.

Another foolish statement.

De Koning is a developing ruckman who has had injuries. How many games should a 21 year old ruckman with injuries have played in his third year? And on that topic. How many games has Draper played?

You say Cuningham is bog average. Is this the same Cuningham who had 28 possessions and was best on ground against your team this year?

Williamson has just returned to senior footy after three years with a debilitating back injury. Is a lock down defender whose impact is not determined by possessions.He’s a ‘role player’ which is what you expect from a pick 61...not a pick 5 like parish.

You really have no idea.

But Dodo is good

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Thanks. As is your list of 'quality' players taken outside of the first round.

Yep, only De Koning looks like he has potential to be a top ten player in their best 22. Fisher top 15. Rest will be sitting 20-30 on the list for a few years.