Preview AFL 2nd Semi Final - Geelong v Fremantle, MCG, Friday 10 September 7:45PM

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Criticisms of Stokes are that he doesn't tackle, doesn't create forward pressure, doesn't set up goals, and despite what you say I don't think he is a very good crumber at all. The goals he does get are generally cheapy's from the goal square

Stokes has 29 tackles from 16 games, 23 goals 10 bhds, 16 goal assist, 22 1%, and 54 inside 50s

Varcoe has 74 tackles from 18 games, 28 goals 11 bhds, 27 goal assist, 28 1% and 63 inside 50s

Byrnes, 62 tackles, 21 games, 32 goals 19 bhds, 22 goal assist, 13 1%, and 72 inside 50s

Can't be stuffed calculating exact averages to counter for different games played but it's clear that Stokes provides least forward pressure, kicks least goals and sets up the least goals out of those 3 small forwards

So I can't believe there's even a question as to which one of those 3 should go out because he is the worst performaning small forward stats wise

I'm pretty suprised at those numbers, but I guess there they are. From my persepective, Varcoe is clearly the most important of that group...but then its a close call between Stokes and Byrnes. I like both, Byrnes offers more pace and a left foot....Stokes i have always thought was a better set shot and mark. Don't think either would be the difference between winning or loosing, but perhaps you are right in pointing at the numbers to suggest Byrnes over Stokes.

I think what has been highlighted this year is that when we have been beaten it is not because of forward line pressure, we seem to make good opportunities from our forwards, it is more restricted number of forward 50 entries from the zone press.... Maybe we can work harder on intensifying our forward 50 pressure to prevent it coming out, but generally, i think our forwards have the correct mix.

What we have to do, which captain obvious could point out, is win the contested ball and get it in there - the quicker the better. The Blake / Hawkins argument carries significant weight as one maybe better at tap clearances, but the other provides us a geniune target to kick to bringing the ball out of defense....

I think we will be ok against the dockers based on the fact we won't be restricted going forward by congestive zones. It will be more or less a shootout between forward lines, and generally you would have to back ours!

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Absolute automatic selection.......can you imagine the difference he would have made in the last quarter with 17 inside 50's to feast on? Also can't imagine him doing what Hawkins did in the 3rd.....Pods is our most composed Forward by a mile.

You are absolutely right. I'm still nervous though, I can't be as confident as you guys because I know Hawkins won't be dropped and Bomber might feel the need to retain Blake against Sandilands.

He definitely SHOULD play though, but I'm not absoutely sure he WILL.

This is a good summary of our selection and other issues this week:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/memories-of-07-may-return-to-haunt-blake-20100906-14xy7.html

Love this:

But Podsiadly's guarantees were rendered unnecessary after Friday night's loss, as he is the best full-forward at the club and must play.

The decision then is on the question the Cats have tussled with all year: Mark Blake or Tom Hawkins? Which brings them back to the conundrum first faced three years ago.

Certainly hope MC sees it the same way

GO CATS!

 

[AM]

In regards to this week's semi, well that's a question that can't be answered, we'll know on thurs whether I'm right or wrong.

In regards to the general trend, no it's absolutely true Bomber has 'favourites' who get preferential (read non merit) treatment at selection, 08 GF should remind you of this among many other examples of selections and non selections. Even the way Bomber has spent the last 2 months talking about 'we'll give Max every chance because he's our spiritual leader and because of the quality of person that he is'. Now I have nothing against Max, in fact I absolutely love Max, and hate the fact that he's out injured, but once you hear a coach talking in those terms, it should be a clue to you that that player (if they can get cleared by the medical staff) will be treated differently at selection than another player on the list would if they were coming back from the same injury. It's just a fact. I will concede you one point-I should not be so quick to tar the whole MC with the same brush, because they don't talk about their philosophy in public enough for me to know whether they play favourites or not, but I absolutely know that Bomber plays favourites, tis' just a fact mate.

In regards to thursday, I just hope for a JPOD, and in general, the best possible team we can field. Time will tell if that's what we get.

Now P.O! How will we know? You will apply your subjective judgement you mean. The only people who will know the reasoning behind selections are those on the match committee. I've had the good fortune to have many discussions with Barry Richardson - who incidentally is a good mate of Balmy. 'Bones' (as he's known) has not only been an AFL senior coach but was a mentor to many other coaches, not the least of which was Bomber in his first two years with us. He also has an outstanding record as an amateur coach with four premierships to his name. He'll tell you that match committee decisions are made on an objective basis taking account of your teams structures, balance and method of play and matching up the oppositions - hoping to expose their weaknesses.

I believe Pods will play but the decision will be made on the basis of the above criteria. Additionally, no coach in his right mind would risk a loss and the consequent damage to his coaching reputation in such a vital game by doing anything other than putting on the park the team best equipped to win.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Now P.O! How will we know? You will apply your subjective judgement you mean. The only people who will know the reasoning behind selections are those on the match committee. I've had the good fortune to have many discussions with Barry Richardson - who incidentally is a good mate of Balmy. 'Bones' (as he's known) has not only been an AFL senior coach but was a mentor to many other coaches, not the least of which was Bomber in his first two years with us. He also has an outstanding record as an amateur coach with four premierships to his name. He'll tell you that match committee decisions are made on an objective basis taking account of your teams structures, balance and method of play and matching up the oppositions - hoping to expose their weaknesses.

I believe Pods will play but the decision will be made on the basis of the above criteria. Additionally, no coach in his right mind would risk a loss and the consequent damage to his coaching reputation in such a vital game by doing anything other than putting on the park the team best equipped to win.

Nope, we'll know by whether Pods does play or not (in particular) and secondarily whether Hawkins does play or not, because the former has a much stronger case on merit than the latter, therefore whichever one is picked, if only one is to be picked, will indicate whether I am right or not.

As for the rest I take your point, and it is true MC would be a very detailed and professional process. That said, the coach is a powerful voice within MC, and if he wants a particular player, that voice certainly carries weight, and consequently, if he really doesn't want a particular player, that voice also carries a lot of weight. It is what it is.

 

[Maydok]

Feels like there's two different conversations going on here isn't there?

Firstly are Bomber and the MC loyal and back the players that have done it before?
Yes. And so they should.
Most of these players are the same guys that at the end of '06 everyone wanted gone. They believed in the players no-one else did and we've gone on to create history. They'll continue to back them until they fail - that may be this week, next week or the week after but they deserve to be backed.

The second issue is will Pods play. It's not even a question. He will play. If we'd won by ten goals without him it may be an issue, but other than Mooney, none of our tall guys played well.

Give Bomber and his MC some credit. They may be loyal, but they ain't stupid.

 

[AM]

Nope, we'll know by whether Pods does play or not (in particular) and secondarily whether Hawkins does play or not, because the former has a much stronger case on merit than the latter, therefore whichever one is picked, if only one is to be picked, will indicate whether I am right or not.

As for the rest I take your point, and it is true MC would be a very detailed and professional process. That said, the coach is a powerful voice within MC, and if he wants a particular player, that voice certainly carries weight, and consequently, if he really doesn't want a particular player, that voice also carries a lot of weight. It is what it is.

Sorry P.O, it will mean nothing of the sort. You are applying your subjective judgement once again. Who gets selected between Pods, Blake and Hawkins (or whether all do) will have nothing to do with any rapport or otherwise Bomber may have with any of them. He, along with the rest of the match committee, will select the team with the structures and balance that will allow us to best utilise our game plan and which matches-up to our advantage in relation to the opposition. No self respecting coach and match committee would place at risk winning a game by selecting one player over another merely because he liked him. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing you’ve had no practical experience with team selection at a football club or, perhaps, even been closely involved with one.

I didn’t follow-up on your Rooke illustration last time. Of course Bomber said he was going to give Maxie every chance to prove himself. Max is a gun with a record of achievement behind him and was arguably our second best player in last years Premiership win. Bomber’s comment related to his value to the team (unquestioned I would have thought) not to any special rapport. Frankly I don’t see what else you’d have expected Bomber to say.

Agree with most of your post, Maydok.

 

[OldStyle2007]

The only loyalty that is required is to the club

The best team has to be put on the park. If the match committee believe that the best team with the best chance of winning contains Corey and Stokes and Blake, I will wear it

However, if they are not forming their best team, and are squeezing blokes into the side because of loyalty to individuals, that is not in the best interests of the club as a whole

Some of us question Bomber when he says things like "Stokes probably deserves a game" in the lead up to last years GF when this clearly wasn't the case. As Clint Eastwood said: "Deserve's got nothin to do with it!"

 

[Gladbaqs]

Re: AFL 2nd Semi Final - Geelong v Fremantle/Hawthorn, TBA

Byrnes? What game did you watch? Most influential player on the ground in second half. Was fantastic.

Only if you don't know what influential or fantastic mean...

 

[geelong_crazy26]

after just watching the replay there is 2 things I noticed st kilda do that we need to start doing more of

1.when st kilda had the ball in their back half with no option they just simply bombed the ball as long as they could to a certain target which was usualy riewoldt,kosi or one of theire ruckman.this is what we must do when we have no option in our back half

2.when st kilda are outnumberd at a contest or are about to lose a contested situation they would often knock the ball out of bounds or lock it in for a ball up.we always attempted to keep the ball alive

dont take risks for the sake of taking a risk

 

[Partridge]

Criticisms of Stokes are that he doesn't tackle, doesn't create forward pressure, doesn't set up goals, and despite what you say I don't think he is a very good crumber at all. The goals he does get are generally cheapy's from the goal square

Stokes has 29 tackles from 16 games, 23 goals 10 bhds, 16 goal assist, 22 1%, and 54 inside 50s

Varcoe has 74 tackles from 18 games, 28 goals 11 bhds, 27 goal assist, 28 1% and 63 inside 50s

Byrnes, 62 tackles, 21 games, 32 goals 19 bhds, 22 goal assist, 13 1%, and 72 inside 50s

Can't be stuffed calculating exact averages to counter for different games played but it's clear that Stokes provides least forward pressure, kicks least goals and sets up the least goals out of those 3 small forwards

So I can't believe there's even a question as to which one of those 3 should go out because he is the worst performaning small forward stats wise

Brilliant post.

The argument was sound to begin with, but backed up with facts....it's pretty hard to dispute.

 

[maryjames]

after just watching the replay there is 2 things I noticed st kilda do that we need to start doing more of

1.when st kilda had the ball in their back half with no option they just simply bombed the ball as long as they could to a certain target which was usualy riewoldt,kosi or one of theire ruckman.this is what we must do when we have no option in our back half

2.when st kilda are outnumberd at a contest or are about to lose a contested situation they would often knock the ball out of bounds or lock it in for a ball up.we always attempted to keep the ball alive

dont take risks for the sake of taking a risk

Yes and yes.

 

[esquilax]

These comments about "We've got nothing to lose" really anger me actually.

Harvey is right.

Rattled after last week, scared of Freo who Bomber knows can play irresistible football, has your own coach battling to keep a lid on expectations or is it a sense of "entitlement"?

Disrespectful supporters talking too much about a Semi.

The Cats might be on the verge of pressing the self-destruct button.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Sorry P.O, it will mean nothing of the sort. You are applying your subjective judgement once again. Who gets selected between Pods, Blake and Hawkins (or whether all do) will have nothing to do with any rapport or otherwise Bomber may have with any of them. He, along with the rest of the match committee, will select the team with the structures and balance that will allow us to best utilise our game plan and which matches-up to our advantage in relation to the opposition. No self respecting coach and match committee would place at risk winning a game by selecting one player over another merely because he liked him. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing you’ve had no practical experience with team selection at a football club or, perhaps, even been closely involved with one.

I didn’t follow-up on your Rooke illustration last time. Of course Bomber said he was going to give Maxie every chance to prove himself. Max is a gun with a record of achievement behind him and was arguably our second best player in last years Premiership win. Bomber’s comment related to his value to the team (unquestioned I would have thought) not to any special rapport. Frankly I don’t see what else you’d have expected Bomber to say.

Agree with most of your post, Maydok.

It's actually not subjective at all, because it's based on the stats of perormance, which are concrete rather than subjective. On any measure of concrete data, Pods is our best performed tall forward, and therefore if we are picking tall forwards (I am assuming you are not suggesting turning our forward line into the land of the dwarfs ) then he is the first picked. Because he is in said place based on performance, he ought to be picked regardless of the specific balance and setup that MC decides to go for..it's not as if he's 4th in line, such a case can't be made. If he is not picked, as I said, it indicates that the performance factor is not the main criteria otherwise he would be. I don't see how that's in the slightest bit subjective.

I never suggested a coach would select a player 'merely' because he liked him, but if you think it's not a factor (i.e. not the only one, but of some influence, then you're being naive in the extreme). I've indeed had plenty of involvement with local footy and selection, and I know enough to know that.

As for the Max example, I wasn't questioning his importance...I want him back as much as anyone else. I was simply pointing out that when the coach is asked a question about whether Max is/will be fit to go/what he needs to do to get selected and he feels the need to tell the journos what a wonderful person Max is (which is probably true, but isn't relevant in an MC sense, which you of all people should be able to understand) it tells you that such things are factors in coaches' minds when they are pondering selection dilemmas, I don't understand how anyone could possibly deny that to be the case.

Anyway, back to the bloomin' game, Pods in, Cats by 30, are my predictions.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Harvey is right.

Rattled after last week, scared of Freo who Bomber knows can play irresistible football, has your own coach battling to keep a lid on expectations or is it a sense of "entitlement"?

Disrespectful supporters talking too much about a Semi.

The Cats might be on the verge of pressing the self-destruct button.

Cool story bro.

 

[_cam]

god i wanna win, ive 07 was nuts & all but *** me i want this year more than the previous. going to a bbq on saturday with pies supporteres, i want them to be stressing. want it bad

 

[Sandi2Palmer]

If Freo get up and Gaz goes to the GC I'd expect Geelong will start their slide. Hard not to be confident as your side is one of the best I've ever witnessed but all good things come to an end. hawthorn where past confident and where down right bloody arrogant leading into last week.
Geelong are heavy favourites but it's a 2 horse race and if we're in it in the 3rd the doubts will coming flooding in and our kids will get their tails up.

 

[sauron256]

If Freo get up and Gaz goes to the GC I'd expect Geelong will start their slide. Hard not to be confident as your side is one of the best I've ever witnessed but all good things come to an end. hawthorn where past confident and where down right bloody arrogant leading into last week.
Geelong are heavy favourites but it's a 2 horse race and if we're in it in the 3rd the doubts will coming flooding in and our kids will get their tails up.

I get coaches playing mind games, but I really don't see the point of attempting to play mind games with fans of the opposing team...

 

[krisholio14]

If Freo get up and Gaz goes to the GC I'd expect Geelong will start their slide. Hard not to be confident as your side is one of the best I've ever witnessed but all good things come to an end. hawthorn where past confident and where down right bloody arrogant leading into last week.
Geelong are heavy favourites but it's a 2 horse race and if we're in it in the 3rd the doubts will coming flooding in and our kids will get their tails up.

H2F was the first and did it way way better than you.

Get your own material.

 

[Hybrid7]

Talking about arrogance, whats with all these freo supporters flooding the Geelong boards trying to pick fights?
We have every right to be confident and even arrogant in our posts on our own boards.

Bugger off back to your freo boards and post your tripe there - although I guess it gets a little lonely only having 5 supporters to reply to your posts.....

 

[AM]

It's actually not subjective at all, because it's based on the stats of perormance, which are concrete rather than subjective. On any measure of concrete data, Pods is our best performed tall forward, and therefore if we are picking tall forwards (I am assuming you are not suggesting turning our forward line into the land of the dwarfs ) then he is the first picked. Because he is in said place based on performance, he ought to be picked regardless of the specific balance and setup that MC decides to go for..it's not as if he's 4th in line, such a case can't be made. If he is not picked, as I said, it indicates that the performance factor is not the main criteria otherwise he would be. I don't see how that's in the slightest bit subjective.

I never suggested a coach would select a player 'merely' because he liked him, but if you think it's not a factor (i.e. not the only one, but of some influence, then you're being naive in the extreme). I've indeed had plenty of involvement with local footy and selection, and I know enough to know that.

As for the Max example, I wasn't questioning his importance...I want him back as much as anyone else. I was simply pointing out that when the coach is asked a question about whether Max is/will be fit to go/what he needs to do to get selected and he feels the need to tell the journos what a wonderful person Max is (which is probably true, but isn't relevant in an MC sense, which you of all people should be able to understand) it tells you that such things are factors in coaches' minds when they are pondering selection dilemmas, I don't understand how anyone could possibly deny that to be the case.

Anyway, back to the bloomin' game, Pods in, Cats by 30, are my predictions.

Sorry P.O but this is yet another post which demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the selection process. You ended part of a previous post on it being a "fact mate'. A fact is something proven beyond doubt. What you do is offer opinions based on assumptions. Nothing wrong with that it's what we all do here but don't pass them off as fact. The only people who can authentically state why Bomber opts for one player over another are the match committee. Out of self interest alone any self respecting coach would always opt for the player who will best serves the structure and the balance of the team, taking account of the match-ups for the coming match.

As you didn't respond to my question as to whether you've had first hand experience in such mattes or been practically involved in a team situation I assume you haven't. It helps if you have.

As you say, back to the game. I too think the Cats will get over the line. But it won't be easy as Freo is quite quick and with a dominant ruckman in Sandilands (let's hope he's not fully fit) it is likely to be tight. Let's hope it's not a physically demanding game with the Maggies and (fingers crossed) Saints to follow.

 

[Copernicus]

Freo fans always seem to have a chip on their shoulder regarding us - I'm a little bemused by it really

 

[darren forssman]

forecast, wet and rainy, i like it.

 

[esquilax]

forecast, wet and rainy, i like it.

Yup, same here, should make Sandi's clearance work even more effective and obviously important - it could be the edge. Harder for the talls, possibly limiting JPod.

In short - suits us too. Magic.

 

[SJ]

Yup, same here, should make Sandi's clearance work even more effective and obviously important - it could be the edge. Harder for the talls, possibly limiting JPod.

In short - suits us too. Magic.

Out of interest, when did Fremantle last play a night game in the wet?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yup, same here, should make Sandi's clearance work even more effective and obviously important - it could be the edge. Harder for the talls, possibly limiting JPod.

In short - suits us too. Magic.

Given how we played in the 2nd half Friday night I think we'd be very happy in the wet. Suits our hard bodies and contested footy and makes us go longer and more direct, and I always think we're better when we do that.

JPOD will also go fine in the wet, will make it harder for him to dominate, but his best asset (the fact that he rarely gets outmarked) will still be there and I expect him to clunk a few. The biggest problem for him in the wet is he's likely to slip into someone and get reported again