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AFL Cairns - 2012 Season

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Saint said:
I thought the points were only based on not recruiting from within the league. Looking at the ladder, the highest point teams are at the bottom (Lions). Saints get their players from country leagues in Vic, just like half the other teams. Souths and Port got all their players this year from country Vic.

Since the top side hasn't won a flag in years, the problem of uneven-ness is at the bottom, not the top.

This year is a one-off that a team has been dominant, but Saints have still lost a game this year and the GF hasn't been played, which is where upsets occur most. There are plenty of leagues where teams go undefeated and nobody changes the rules for a one-off season.
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Come off it Saint, are you really that arrogant??!

This isn't about Saints, it's about the unevenness of the competition for many years. The top four have been a long way off the bottom three for sometime. At times it may be 5 & 2 or even top 3 far superior. Overall the league has been too uneven with most seasons being a two or three horse race.

Regarding the points, it's quite simple if you know the system currently in place and compare it to the table I put up. It's the bottom teams that get more points to recruit.

But you carry on opposing anything that may make things even because you're arrogant selfish attitude believes its all about keeping saints on top for as long as possible.
 
Dontargue said:
Come off it Saint, are you really that arrogant??!

This isn't about Saints, it's about the unevenness of the competition for many years. The top four have been a long way off the bottom three for sometime. At times it may be 5 & 2 or even top 3 far superior. Overall the league has been too uneven with most seasons being a two or three horse race.

Regarding the points, it's quite simple if you know the system currently in place and compare it to the table I put up. It's the bottom teams that get more points to recruit.

But you carry on opposing anything that may make things even because you're arrogant selfish attitude believes its all about keeping saints on top for as long as possible.
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I think all this would do is turn good footballers away from coming up to Cairns. Finding jobs has been hard, and this does not help clubs recruit good footballers and good people. The point system they have in place now is good as it stops players up here club jumping, and I agree that allowing for great points allocation for the bottom sides to try and 'advance' them the next year is a good idea.

What the league should be looking at doing is making clubs more sustainable, and don't ask me how they can do it. Juniors is the key to me. I don't think capping clubs on bringing new players up from other leagues will help our league in any way, we all want better players coming up it is just meeting the needs of that player (work, money, location).

I don't think any clubs in the league are 'breaking any rules' or doing anything outside the box to gain any unfair advantages. The worst thing that I understand anyone is doing is flying players in, from my calculations this player is costing the club a great deal ($300+ for return flights, $100 for accommodation and at least another $300 for the game). I think money like this can be better spent but that is just an opinion. I have no worries if it is sustainable and it does not upset team mates or volunteers. Does the league have a salary cap?

Norths seem to be on the right track to me, their culture has improved and soon juniors and friends of players will join the club due to word of mouth. They will see and hear about the club being a good place. Lions are on a similar path. Souths are trying to achieve the same. Manunda are always successful with their approach. Culture does take time and it comes and goes, right now Saints obviously have a culture that brings certain recruits and some success, but I am sure one day it won't be so easy. Things don't just happen in 1 or 2 seasons, they take a lot of careful work.

Off the field I reckon only Centrals would say they are doing it a bit tough at the moment, but they have been strong and will get back on track with some good decisions. This season has seen some lob sided results I agree, but 4 years ago Souths and Centrals were not the bottom 2 sides. It comes and goes. In 4 years time the Hawks and Saints might be down the bottom. It is impossible to always have all sides, each and every year, on level abilities. I don't think any league in Australia has that.
 
Saint said:
I thought the points were only based on not recruiting from within the league. Looking at the ladder, the highest point teams are at the bottom (Lions). Saints get their players from country leagues in Vic, just like half the other teams. Souths and Port got all their players this year from country Vic.

Since the top side hasn't won a flag in years, the problem of uneven-ness is at the bottom, not the top.

This year is a one-off that a team has been dominant, but Saints have still lost a game this year and the GF hasn't been played, which is where upsets occur most. There are plenty of leagues where teams go undefeated and nobody changes the rules for a one-off season.
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From what I can see looking at dontargue's "template", the top side hasn't had any points taken away from them so should be able to go about their business as normal. The bottom sides would have the oppurtunity to add a bit more depth to their side hopefully evening up some results a bit quicker than clubs going through a rebuilding period. If a club jumps from the last to first than obviously they will lose some points.

I think you'll also find that the top team won the flag last year so it wasn't that many years ago.
 

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Geegrimey I don't know who is paying such ridiculous prices flying players over. Sme clubs have a connection with specific Airlines and some have people work in these airlines that get very cheap flights. Accommodation is a layers, presidents house so is free and $300 a game is a long way above anything I've ever heard or seen.

As for the juniors being the key, as I've previously stated, don't place too much stock in this. They're important sure, but you'll get maybe half a team at bets from them each year.

As for capping clubs recruiting, that is exactly what the current system does. The system I'm suggesting would simply give more points to allow lower team to increase their cap for recruiting to make an EVEN COMPETITION.

Why is it that all saints supporters on here are the only people against this?? Well we all ow why that is.

As I've said, I support the Hawks, who have just as much success as Saints the past 10 years, and I firmly believe that the good of the entire competition is of greater importance than that of any individual club. Just as any club is far greater than the individual within the club. The arrogance and selfishness of your club has reached new heights with these posts.
 
Dontargue said:
Geegrimey I don't know who is paying such ridiculous prices flying players over. Sme clubs have a connection with specific Airlines and some have people work in these airlines that get very cheap flights. Accommodation is a layers, presidents house so is free and $300 a game is a long way above anything I've ever heard or seen.

As for the juniors being the key, as I've previously stated, don't place too much stock in this. They're important sure, but you'll get maybe half a team at bets from them each year.

As for capping clubs recruiting, that is exactly what the current system does. The system I'm suggesting would simply give more points to allow lower team to increase their cap for recruiting to make an EVEN COMPETITION.

Why is it that all saints supporters on here are the only people against this?? Well we all ow why that is.

As I've said, I support the Hawks, who have just as much success as Saints the past 10 years, and I firmly believe that the good of the entire competition is of greater importance than that of any individual club. Just as any club is far greater than the individual within the club. The arrogance and selfishness of your club has reached new heights with these posts.
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You are strange man Dontargue and sitting back reading your posts now for a while I would say you are in fact arrogant. You don't listen to what anyone else says, it's your way or the highway.

Your points system just doesn't work. The original system was brought in originally to help teams out who were continually losing players to other clubs in the league. I'm sure no team has had an abundance of Ex-AFplans state players on there list at once to tip them over the points limit.
In 2007 Cairns City Cobras had a number of good players leave their club and go to Souths and this broke the camels back, hence the points system came about.

Now the reason why you suggestion doesn't work. If the bottom team is allowed more points so pursues players from other clubs and bring their points up to 44. The following year that club wins the premiership. The next year they will go back to 36. Those players that they recruited are still worth 8 points. Therefore that club is over its points allowance and those players are forced to leave again.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate but there has to be a different way.

The league ebbs and flows Saints will not stay up forever, hawks will not stay up forever. The time will come when these other teams will get their shot and I feel norths may be the one who'll get there sooner or later. Good juniors and a developing culture makes a club with a lot to like.

Remember it wasn't that long ago your beloved hawks hadn't won a premiership for a while either!?
 
Hizenberg said:
You are strange man Dontargue and sitting back reading your posts now for a while I would say you are in fact arrogant. You don't listen to what anyone else says, it's your way or the highway.

Your points system just doesn't work. The original system was brought in originally to help teams out who were continually losing players to other clubs in the league. I'm sure no team has had an abundance of Ex-AFplans state players on there list at once to tip them over the points limit.
In 2007 Cairns City Cobras had a number of good players leave their club and go to Souths and this broke the camels back, hence the points system came about.

Now the reason why you suggestion doesn't work. If the bottom team is allowed more points so pursues players from other clubs and bring their points up to 44. The following year that club wins the premiership. The next year they will go back to 36. Those players that they recruited are still worth 8 points. Therefore that club is over its points allowance and those players are forced to leave again.

Sorry to burst your bubble mate but there has to be a different way.

The league ebbs and flows Saints will not stay up forever, hawks will not stay up forever. The time will come when these other teams will get their shot and I feel norths may be the one who'll get there sooner or later. Good juniors and a developing culture makes a club with a lot to like.

Remember it wasn't that long ago your beloved hawks hadn't won a premiership for a while either!?
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Well for a start I'm not saying my example is bullet proof. And I'm far from arrogant. I was just weighing onto the debate with a possible solution. I think I said its a template to improve on.

Regarding teams going from bottom to top in one year (unlikely) like the current system, players points will reduce by a set margin each year they remain at the club, to help keep them. And I realise hawks had gone 20+ years without winning a flag, but as I said this is not about hawks or saints, or any one club. I think we are all agree that we would like a more even and competitive competiton? Not a clear two or three teams then daylight to the rest, and even further back one or two clubs that win nothing for th year.

Out of interest hizenberg, are you a saints supporter? Just seems funny theres been no one from any other club other right any ideas off, yet all saints posters are really jumping up and down against it.

PS Well done to Saints today on the premiership double. Easily the best team all year and rightful champions.
 
I don't think your idea is terrible Dontargue but I also don't thinks Saints is either and perhaps a balance needs to be found somewhere, perhaps between the two. As I said the points were brought in because teams were taking advantage of other teams. This was done perhaps with deeper pockets or perhaps not.

The problem with the rule is, there is only one league in cairns and if you play for one team and need a change or perhaps don't like it, other teams are reluctant to take you for fear of over stepping the points system. I'm not sure how you over come this???

Yes I support Saints but follow football as a whole and don't mind sharing the love around. I do feel norths are on the right track along with Souths. Norths have probably progressed a little further however.

I also think that saints, manunda and port are little more successful lately due to not only being good clubs but something that many over look which is location. If I was to move to cairns centrals and lions are a bit out of town and for younger folk it means a big taxi fare if they have a few beers after the game or at a club function if they want to go out??? Just a thought could be way off the mark. I'm also not saying this is a sole reason for their success.

I firmly believe lions if it was any way possible should have gone to redlynch not moved redlynch to them. A growth area that is closer to the city. By the sounds of this board though they sound as though they will be better next year. Hopefully it's not just a one off thing. However, they do have some good juniors coming through i .e. jack keagon and Ryan Osborne are just a few I can think of.

Well done to the saints today but I thought the hawks and tigers both put up great fights!
 
Here is my one cent worth on yesterday's grand finals (without any comments on the umpiring).

The ressies game can only be called a sloppy game of football. However in saying that, it was a see sawing battle for 3 quarters until Saints finally moved into 4th gear halfway through the 4th quarter to walk away with the silverware. However, congratulations to the Saints team and commisserations to Norths who I'm sure will be a stronger force next year then this one.

As for the senior game, Saints exploded out of the blocks and I initiallly thought 'here we go again'. Hawks settled and clawed their way back into the game and it became quite interesting. Both teams continued to work hard until Saints got away in the last quarter through some dominating displays.

Congratulations to the Saints but kudo's to the Hawks who at the start of the season had no coach and from all the banter on here, weren't expected to do anything good let alone play in the grand final.

On another note, it was an interesting crowd compared to the last few years. The Saints mob were hushed and at one stage you would have heard a pin drop as both sides of the grandstand were just sitting watching and concentrating. There was no foot stamping from Saints fans and no war cry. What's happening Saints people, did you all take a prozac before going out to Cazaly's yesterday? LOL.
 
For a change I'm not going to talk about the umpiring in yesterday's games but offer this thought as a genuine discussion item and if anybody in the forum world has any genuine, constructive comment to add. I'm not looking for just the negative comments from the small minded few.

Rather then having our normal locally based three (3) Field Umpires officiating in the middle in both grand finals, is there any merit in bringing up Field Umpires from the QAFL/Brisbane comp. You could still have locally based boundary/goal umpires but the fellows in the middle would be completely independent much like international test cricket, union and league.

Just putting it out there for comment.:cool:
 
Flintstone said:
For a change I'm not going to talk about the umpiring in yesterday's games but offer this thought as a genuine discussion item and if anybody in the forum world has any genuine, constructive comment to add. I'm not looking for just the negative comments from the small minded few.

Rather then having our normal locally based three (3) Field Umpires officiating in the middle in both grand finals, is there any merit in bringing up Field Umpires from the QAFL/Brisbane comp. You could still have locally based boundary/goal umpires but the fellows in the middle would be completely independent much like international test cricket, union and league.

Just putting it out there for comment.:cool:
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I suggested this a few years ago and was shot down with more rounds than the Red Barron was over France

Again great idea

1) We need to get them up here a few times through out the year to get use to their idiosyncrasy which all have

they brought a coach for them but he was WORSE THAN THEM

2) bring in a proper administrator to run our league

3) instead of just the presidents going to meetings and keeping the information for themselves and select few on committees, pass it to the supporters what they are deciding, after all we who pay our Full Club fees & not the $2 type should have a say, but don't get one till the AGM's at the years end too bad if we don't like the way it is being run till then

Ok some will say join the Committees, I have and was a Committee member for yrs and still it was not forth coming, but illness forced me off for the last two years. A couple don't want me back on as I have opinions and will voice them. Am still very active in other ways I also don't stab people in the back as some do in my club
 
Kiss of death this week -

Hawthorne in a tight one over the Swans in a battle of the birds. I'm looking forward to watching the game from the comfort of a spa and drinking heaps beverages.:p
 
Well done Saints on 2 great wins on Saturday. Good reward for a terrific season by the club. Any news on clubs who might be losing players next season? I know it's early but might be some players on their way out of Cairns. I know Saints will be losing a couple of key players for next season already.
 

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Lachrilly said:
Well done Saints on 2 great wins on Saturday. Good reward for a terrific season by the club. Any news on clubs who might be losing players next season? I know it's early but might be some players on their way out of Cairns. I know Saints will be losing a couple of key players for next season already.
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Well done Saints on the two wins

Losing a couple will NOT hurt yourselves by any means

it is up to the rest of the comp. to keep blooding their juniors and unearthing talent then we will see
the best in Cairns :D
 
It was a great year at Saints. The boys never took anything for granted or took their foot off the pedal at training or during games. Had they eased off, I'm sure the attack the Hawks put on the ball in the GF would have made it a lot closer. But Saints were well drilled enough to stick to the system and got the result. A good Grand Final match well contested.

Also a great result for our reserves who haven't had the same success of the senior team over the last few years, but many worthy Premiers amongst that group of players.

I don't think there's any doubt that teams like Souths and Norths will continue to improve next year. If Lions can keep their list and get a couple of fresh faces, their improvement will also continue. I'm sure Saints will lose a couple and gain a couple. I'd expect a few Under 16/17s to start leaking into the senior team, which is a very exciting thing for the club after a lot of hard work by many people and will ensure the club is strong well into the future.

Unfortunately I can't see the economic situation in Cairns improving any time soon with the dollar likely to strengthen further or at least stay above $1.00 US for at least another couple of years. Which isn't great news for Port. The timing of clubs shifting to reliance on good juniors rather than good imports is good for those who have moved in that direction. Looking forward to a good pre-season and lots of bull dust coming from all corners and then things to be completely different or untrue come round 1. But it's time now to recover from Mad Monday and focus on the footy trip.

I'll make up some rumours when I get back from that.
 
Saint said:
It was a great year at Saints. The boys never took anything for granted or took their foot off the pedal at training or during games. Had they eased off, I'm sure the attack the Hawks put on the ball in the GF would have made it a lot closer. But Saints were well drilled enough to stick to the system and got the result. A good Grand Final match well contested.

Also a great result for our reserves who haven't had the same success of the senior team over the last few years, but many worthy Premiers amongst that group of players.

I don't think there's any doubt that teams like Souths and Norths will continue to improve next year. If Lions can keep their list and get a couple of fresh faces, their improvement will also continue. I'm sure Saints will lose a couple and gain a couple. I'd expect a few Under 16/17s to start leaking into the senior team, which is a very exciting thing for the club after a lot of hard work by many people and will ensure the club is strong well into the future.

Unfortunately I can't see the economic situation in Cairns improving any time soon with the dollar likely to strengthen further or at least stay above $1.00 US for at least another couple of years. Which isn't great news for Port. The timing of clubs shifting to reliance on good juniors rather than good imports is good for those who have moved in that direction. Looking forward to a good pre-season and lots of bull dust coming from all corners and then things to be completely different or untrue come round 1. But it's time now to recover from Mad Monday and focus on the footy trip.

I'll make up some rumours when I get back from that.
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I look forward to the gossip.
 
Souths Presentation was held last night at the Tradewinds

Seniors

David Downes B & F

Daniel Lock Runner Up

Reserves

Christian Stewart B & F

Shaun Weidner Runner Up
 
tamba said:
Souths Presentation was held last night at the Tradewinds

Seniors

David Downes B & F

Daniel Lock Runner Up

Reserves

Christian Stewart B & F

Shaun Weidner Runner Up
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Great effort by Downesy and Locky. Saints had their presentation night last night at the Holiday Inn. Bit of a surprise in the Seniors with Walshy winning it from Powelly and Gilly. Results were as follows;

Seniors;
Matt Walsh B & F
Brenton Powell Runner Up

Reserves;
Nathan Ryan B & F
Adrian James & Jarrod Hogan Runner Up
 
Under 18s first for sure, but if they can get a team together, there's nothing wrong with them playing seniors rather than reserve grade. Especially since it would be replacing the bye, their opponents would get to choose anyone they want anyway. If they thought they weren't up to seniors, they could try reserves, but the league would need to set up rules about who could play. The more sides the merrier, as long as they, and the existing sides are stable.
 
Saint said:
Under 18s first for sure, but if they can get a team together, there's nothing wrong with them playing seniors rather than reserve grade. Especially since it would be replacing the bye, their opponents would get to choose anyone they want anyway. If they thought they weren't up to seniors, they could try reserves, but the league would need to set up rules about who could play. The more sides the merrier, as long as they, and the existing sides are stable.
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A suggestion maybe give an extra allowance of points greater than now for 3 yrs to get them up & running ??

The league (choke) help in the management ??

Fringe Reserve Grade to Senior Grade players an incentive to join an exciting new club :thumbsu:

worth a try ?????
 

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