AFL Discrimination against North Melbourne, St Kilda & The Western Bulldogs

[Thommo 42]

You realise the Collingwood vs Melbourne match was just as boring right?? Well it was FYI.

yep, but 75,000 turned up to watch.

 

[clobba]

yep, but 75,000 turned up to watch.

Got no major hate for your team but quoting numbers like that is as relevent to the quality of the footy (twas a SHIT game) as how many people Macca's served has to the quality of their food...

 

[trubludoggie]

Lord Nicholson

irredeemably horrendous

Sounds like Essendon of the last 10 years champ!!!!

Now back to the thread, as someone on here said earlier when the dogs are up and playing a quality side we can draw a crowd

case in point
R14 1998 vs ST Kilda at Waverley crowd49,706
R21 1998 vs Essendon MCG, crowd 67,157
R22 1998 vs North crowd MCG, 68,050

These were genuine blockbusters between in-form teams playing each other, not the manufactured crap Vlad and his cronies throw at us now

Dream time at the G Ess vs Rich (blockbuster!!!! gimme a break) maybe in a couple of years if both teams keep improving but certainly not the last 3 or 4 when both teams were putrid!!!!

Of course I haven't used recent years because most of our big games have been fixtured at Etihad which has a capacity of around 50,000 but we have consistently drawn between 40 to 45k when playing other in-form teams!!! Not the manufactured bull**it blockbusters!!!!

And yes we are crap this year before someone kindly points it out for me!!!

 

[R00StaR]

North need to earn blockbuster status by having their fans turn up every week.

This "give us a big game and we promise we'll watch it" mentality is nauseating.

The thread has been started by a Hawthorn supporter. Why so defensive anyway, whats the Big 4 even need the blockbuster type timeslots for? When ever they play each other its going to draw a massive crowd no matter what.

We could keep these time slots for home games of smaller clubs Vs big 4 clubs to help them out like the Melbourne game, some might be 10-20k smaller but in time they'd grow. We then we still have the big 4 blockbusters other days drawing their 70-80k, which dont need assistance of public holiday type time slots. Or maybe they do?

 

[MightyTiger]

It would be interesting to know just how much a continuous lack of FTA exposure and terrible fixturing affects a clubs ability to grow.

Even though the AFL maximises its revenue in the short term, surely a healthy even competition is what draws the most interest from the average fan. Good games every week played by a number of teams should be the aim.

Of course as pointed out, self interest for certain fat cats in head office serves to stop any advances in this area.

Doesn't North sell 1 Game Memberships?

In fact after doing some research here it is.

http://membership.kangaroos.com.au/2011-packages/shinboner-spriit

Shinboner Spirit Membership is the club’s entry level membership and provides access to 1 home game


Shinboner Spirit
$25

I wonder how many of these North have sold.

 

[R00StaR]

Not quite. While Collingwood weren't clean, they were demonstrative, with a few patches of excitement here and there.

The Friday night match was irredeemably horrendous. With maybe Goddard's goal being an exception.

I didnt have a problem with either game tbh. For me an interesting game goes beyond the colour combinations 2 clubs wear or how many supporters are in the stands. I dont understand why people care so much about this rather than the game, are the big 4 the only teams capable of playing football worth watching?

Ok so the StKilda V Bulldogs wasnt the highest skill level, but again i dont need 2x top 4 clubs playing for interest. My interest here was 2 teams that have been up a while both struggling this season for various reason, both needing the game to stay in touch of the 8. While the skill level wasnt the highest they both provided a good content, i watched it happily.

Melb v Collingwood: Watched most of the game on and off after it become a non contest. But going into it, the last few years Melbourne have played above themselves so i was interested to see if they could again. Interested to see how their young up and coming team went against one of the bench mark teams.

Yep theres far more to a good game of footy than colours of the jumper and people in the crowd.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Lesser Melbourne clubs should just accept their lot and focus on being solvent. I cant help but feel that the Nth Melbs, Footscray and Hawthorns of this world sometimes get ahead of themselves when demanding these types of fixtures when the most they really truly deserve is perhaps one or two friday night matches a season (at the most). Remember the AFL is a about the big Melbourne clubs and interstate clubs, little clubs should be glad they are not in the vfl.

So what happens if the 'little' clubs all happen to be in the top 4, while the so called big 4 happen to be down the bottom. Does this mean that we have to watch sub-standard football and miss out on the really good games, just because of this outdated system?

For me I would rather watch a decent game of football, rather than certain football clubs. The games between Geelong and the dogs have been good in the past, and we were thanked by many for putting on a decent game, while other clubs that get all the FTA were shite - ie Essendon and Carlton.

 

[greennick]

The only real solution to this nonsense: a truly random draw, with all clubs sharing gate takings equally.

Contrary to popular belief, this is perfectly possible with 22/23 rounds.

1. Everyone plays everyone else once. Randomly pick who is home and who is away such that each team plays at home 9 times and away 8 times (or vice versa) in this period (assuming 18 teams).

2. Randomly pick the remaining 5 opponents (assuming 22 rounds) such that no-one plays anyone more than twice and if two teams have played before, the home/away is reversed. Then allocate home/away for any remaining games so that each team plays 11 home, 11 away.

You'll still get your "blockbusters" as a matter of course, plus the fixture won't be required to predict the genuine big games from the duds in advance.

If deemed absolutely necessary, then reshuffle the games a bit to take into account breaks, travel etc without actually changing who plays who where.

Every club then gets exactly 1/18th of the gate takings. Dividing these up unevenly is a joke in a league which earns $200M+ a year from TV and has a salary cap and draft.

This would fix:

1. Unfair blockbuster fixturing
2. Collingwood's farcical home ground advantage and lack of travel
3. Travel fatigue for teams who seem to get sent on the road a lot
4. Genuinely level playing field to determine top 8 and top 4
5. System is random and therefore will break even over a long enough period of time

While an average idea, at least the good thing about this would be Melbourne priced tickets for us in the West....

 

[Teffy]

It would be interesting to know just how much a continuous lack of FTA exposure and terrible fixturing affects a clubs ability to grow.

You only need to listen to sports radio to get a gauge on this situation.

Nearly every supporter with a heavy foreign accent that rings in, is a Collingwood supporter. They also have an absolute mortgage on the "fooolly sick" second generation folks.

Collingwood were always big, but there's little doubt that their arm chair ride in fixturing, scheduling and exposure has made them massive.

 

[RooHooDoo]

Doesn't North sell 1 Game Memberships?

In fact after doing some research here it is.

http://membership.kangaroos.com.au/2011-packages/shinboner-spriit

Shinboner Spirit Membership is the club’s entry level membership and provides access to 1 home game


Shinboner Spirit
$25

I wonder how many of these North have sold.

What has that got to do with the argument?

We already know clubs like NM have a low supporter base.

The POINT is that the current situation with fixturing and FTA is going to make sure they stay low.

 

[King Elvis]

Surely these clubs fans are sick of being shafted to poor timeslots, and would turn out in numbers, if given the opportunity of watching their side play a "blockbuster".

 

[Ron The Bear]

Dream time at the G Ess vs Rich (blockbuster!!!! gimme a break) maybe in a couple of years if both teams keep improving but certainly not the last 3 or 4 when both teams were putrid!!!!

Regular Saturday night timeslot. The Dreamtime promotion was Sheedy's idea and has added ~10K to the attendance.

Sheedy's other idea (the so-called 'Eureka' match v North) has been a fizzer. Nothing stopping the Bulldogs coming up with some sort of promotion of their own.

 

[Mr Smiff]

ANZAC Day is the "ultimate" Blockbuster though. Hawthorn & Geelong have earnt the right to play ANZAC Day, and Collingwood & Essendon have lost the right with a string of poor standard games.

But we can discuss that in the other thread. Let's keep on topic.

Says you.......!
You have earned NOTHING.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Sounds like Essendon of the last 10 years champ!!!!

...who said it wasn't?

As for Dreamtime at the 'G, the 83K this year wasn't too shabby.

The special fixtures that Essendon are involved in generally have something to do with Sheeds and his opposite number being proactive about promoting the game. If the Good Friday appeal (ha) keeps getting knocked back, maybe try something different.

I mean, these fixtures usually have something to do with a bullcrap "theme" round, so maybe these clubs should look at the so-called "women's round" or the "umpire's round" or whatever the hell they have now and try and finagle something out of that.

Apparently GWS want Good Friday for the Sydney derby, so maybe that'll open it up for others (much in the same way that Freo seem to have their own ANZAC day shindig).

 

[Thommo 42]

Got no major hate for your team but quoting numbers like that is as relevent to the quality of the footy (twas a SHIT game) as how many people Macca's served has to the quality of their food...

maybe for you, but watching a young Collingwood side dominate with a beautiful brand of football is enjoyable to many, about 75,000 for a start.

Friday night, now that was a shit ga,e

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The thread has been started by a Hawthorn supporter. Why so defensive anyway, whats the Big 4 even need the blockbuster type timeslots for?

To maximise revenue which in turn is used to keep clubs like North alive.

 

[Falchoon]

Whilst there have always been haves and have nots in football, fixed fixturing is widening the gap.

It's all about accessability and always has been, the power clubs of the past were built on the accessability provided by railway lines.

The power clubs of the future will be those accessable through the media.

What the likes of North have to do is use fixed fixturing to their advantage, request games on the likelihood of wins rather than crowds.

 

[mytym]

True blockbuster games are generated as a result of the teams participating, not the timeslot. When Collingwood plays Carlton or Essendon, it will be a blockbuster regardless of whether it is played as the twilight game on Sunday night or on Anzac Day.

If people are interested in the game, they will turn up. If the TV stations realise that enough people are interested in the game, they will be interested in televising it. Ideally, those interested in watching the game would prefer it to be on at the most convenient time for them. Ideally, TV stations would prefer to televise the game at the most convenient time for those interested to watch it.

This all sounds pretty obvious doesn't it? So why do we all think that the teams involved are a minor detail in creating a blockbuster?

By all means, lets fixture North v Footscray on Anzac Day from now on and move Collingwood v Essendon to the Sunday twilight game. Do you think Channel 7 would prefer to televise Anzac Day or the Sunday twilight game?

The key is to get people interested in watching your team play. That means playing well, particularly against teams that people are already watching. Do that and the rest should take care of itself.

 

[Redb#]

ANZAC Day is the "ultimate" Blockbuster though. Hawthorn & Geelong have earnt the right to play ANZAC Day, and Collingwood & Essendon have lost the right with a string of poor standard games.

But we can discuss that in the other thread. Let's keep on topic.

Get off the drugs. 2011 was a cracker intense game between Ess v Coll. as was 2009, 2010 a dud.

Never fails to sell out.

The rematch for Geel v hawks got 63k - patethic

 

[Falchoon]

Get off the drugs. 2011 was a cracker intense game between Ess v Coll. as was 2009, 2010 a dud.

Never fails to sell out.

The rematch for Geel v hawks got 63k - patethic

which is more than the last non anzac day Coll-Ess clash

 

[Bulldog1954]

Anybody who watched the Saints vs Dogs last Friday night will understand why that should not be a 'marquee' match up!!

It was a terrible game but lets not forget their have been times when Collingwood have had rubbish sides and still regularly playing in "blockbusters". Essendon haven't won a final for years and still play blockbusters.

Marquee matches between sides like North and the Dogs will never be massive drawing games, but hypothetically a 30k crowd could become 40k. A Carlton - Essendon game is always going to draw a big crowd, putting it in a marquee timeslot again may only increase the crowd by similar numbers

 

[Lord Nicholson]

which is more than the last non anzac day Coll-Ess clash

About 4K more... and with the consideration that Essendon were cellar-dwelling.

If Hawthorn were 14th on the ladder, and Geelong were 1st... yeesh. Wouldn't get within a bull's roar of 59K.

 

[DrEvil]

the sad thing is we probably deserved these games in 2010 given our form and membership. in 2011 and beyond we will probably slide in terms of form and membership.

whilst its a great idea we havent really drawn large crowd numbers vs the doggies and even more so the roos.

a geelong vs st kilda is probably a better blockbuster.

western bulldogs vs essendon?? north melbourne vs melbourne??

You made up for it with grand final day X2

 

[Katherine Amateurs]

You can have Queens Birthday....

 

[Munro_Mick]

What get's me is the false perceptions that get perpetuated - such that the 'big 4' (Coll, Ess, Carl and Rich? or Haw?) need to be up and going to generate big crowds.

1998 is a perfect example. It was a record season average attendance for both H&A and total, H&A at 34,768, not beaten until 2005, and total season (inc finals) of 36,172 (again, not beaten until 2005).

And, who made up the top 8 at the end of the season?
North, Doggies, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, StKilda, West Coast and Essendon.

Carlton, Geel, Hawthorn and Collingwood finished 11th to 14th.

Although, of the biggest attended matches, a lot were the ususal suspects and the regular 'blockbusters' which supports the blockbuster concept.

Despite this - as a North fan, I'd love it if we could perhaps play Essendon twice a year sometime soon!! This weekend, North v Essendon would be a brilliant Friday night game and would probably fill the ground (although Essendon go in for their fully ticketed stadium).

An annual North v Doggies blockbuster on Good Friday I reckon would be good, or, even the Sunday evening before Queens Birthday Monday. Allow North and the Doggies to play a multi-cultural themed match.....bring out some of the great names,....Liberatore, Romero, Lesiputty, Petraglia......