Preview AFL NAB Challenge match 2 - Melbourne v Geelong, TIO Traeger Park, 5:40PM CST Friday 28 February

[dazbroncos]

This is where I disagree. I don't see any evidence that kids taken inside the top 10 are so much better than those outside it. I think too many forget the draft reflects the opinion of these players as 17-year-olds. No one can know, no one does know how they are going to turn out. If you happen to have these picks great, but we're a club that provides enormous evidence that you don't need them. As long as you develop players throughout the list. Which we do, and are continuing to do.

Plus I totally dispute that we need the "Caddy type". That assumes he's by far the best of our 1-4 year group of players, and I'd argue he's far from that. Guthrie at least is a far better footballer right now, and there are others around the same mark who are every bit as good. Don't care what anyone sense, the magical combination of early draft pick + Gold Coast has made a lot of people think he's an automatic superstar without actually making an objective judgement. It certainly wasn't true of him last year, but with a year under his belt he looks to be improving. Can't ask for more than that.

I get what you are saying about not really knowing how they will turn out - but it seems easier to succeed with more ability than less. JOM vs Jessie Stringer for example.

I know I'm cherry picking players and maybe the gap is too wide but players go as top 10 picks for a reason, and usually the grand scope of those rating them to those positions is not too far off. Sure they miss some and over rate others, I'm talking the average.

That said, we have had plenty of success from players outside pick 15. Still, I reckon the talent has to be there to begin with. Of course, those rating the talent must recognise and categorise it correctly….

GO Catters

 

[cynical]

Provided you are structurally sound it's the bottom 5 players that can make all the difference.

It's no good having 10 great early pick players in your team if you have spuds filling in the holes. (eg saints)

Ideally you want most in the team to be All Australian or fringe All Australian players rather than be elite (top 5-10 players in the comp). The top players can demand too much money and attention.

The problem some clubs get into is they continually play or keep guys who are only ever going to be average players. You don't want to give those guys 50-150 games.

Eg guys like Walker and Stringer should be discarded when their contracts are up (unless they show huge improvement)

And it's why Blicavs should only be emergency no 2 ruck, he is only ever going to be an average number 2 so there is no point persisting with him there.

 

[Turbocat]

This is where I disagree. I don't see any evidence that kids taken inside the top 10 are so much better than those outside it. I think too many forget the draft reflects the opinion of these players as 17-year-olds. No one can know, no one does know how they are going to turn out. If you happen to have these picks great, but we're a club that provides enormous evidence that you don't need them. As long as you develop players throughout the list. Which we do, and are continuing to do.

Plus I totally dispute that we need the "Caddy type". That assumes he's by far the best of our 1-4 year group of players, and I'd argue he's far from that. Guthrie at least is a far better footballer right now, and there are others around the same mark who are every bit as good. Don't care what anyone sense, the magical combination of early draft pick + Gold Coast has made a lot of people think he's an automatic superstar without actually making an objective judgement. It certainly wasn't true of him last year, but with a year under his belt he looks to be improving. Can't ask for more than that.

Can I just expand on what I'm calling a "Caddy type" , I'm not specifically looking for someone with his skill set , but someone who is a quality early pick type who matches our needs. So bit like what Otten's was as well.

No doubt , the longer they are in the system the draft rating becomes irrelevant. Im sure we would all rate Bundy higher than 40 , certainly not that far from previous #1 in Scully. Logic says the picking of the more mature in system player means it less important that they are the draft stipulated single figure pick. Probably argue against myself a bit here. I was all for getting Adams and he was no single figure pick.

But bringing in Caddy increased our youthful talent pool. Some liked , some not but he played while others that we had didn't which means the people in power rated him higher than the likes of Schroder or whoever who could do a similar role. For every Enright how many late picks fail or just become good ordinary players.

99 47 Enright
00 44 Hunt
01 41 Playfair
02 _ Moloney in Preseason
03 42 Spencer
04 62 Egan
05 47 Gamble
06 57 Hogan
07 44 Scott Simpson
08 49 Taylor Hunt
09 42 Vardy
10 54 Schroder
11 48 Murdoch
12 77 Hartman
13 41 Kolodjashnij

I think this sort of shows you can pick up a good player , but I don't see anyone becoming as good as Enright. Honestly no one could be expected to be as good as he has become , no matter what pick he has been taken at.

 

[wcadams88]

Any news on whether kersten will be named?

 

[dazbroncos]

Any news on whether kersten will be named?

God I hope so if he's fit and ready….

GO Catters

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Provided you are structurally sound it's the bottom 5 players that can make all the difference.

It's no good having 10 great early pick players in your team if you have spuds filling in the holes. (eg saints)

Ideally you want most in the team to be All Australian or fringe All Australian players rather than be elite (top 5-10 players in the comp). The top players can demand too much money and attention.

The problem some clubs get into is they continually play or keep guys who are only ever going to be average players. You don't want to give those guys 50-150 games.

Eg guys like Walker and Stringer should be discarded when their contracts are up (unless they show huge improvement)

And it's why Blicavs should only be emergency no 2 ruck, he is only ever going to be an average number 2 so there is no point persisting with him there.

Totally agree cynical
We have had the minimum amount of draft picks over the last 2 years IIRC , despite having a number of veterans leaving in each year.
The by product of this is we have shown faith in a number of players some of whom have had LT injuries - I don't think this is sustainable come seasons end.
I think we will look very hard at a number of players - Stringer , Sheringham, Shroeder , Cowan , Walker , Smedts, - if they don't progress considerably in 2014 it may be time to part company.
I think we will go hard in the Draft this season and wouldn't mind if we did a Collingwood and traded hard for lower picks.

 

[Partridge]

Totally agree cynical
We have had the minimum amount of draft picks over the last 2 years IIRC , despite having a number of veterans leaving in each year.
The by product of this is we have shown faith in a number of players some of whom have had LT injuries - I don't think this is sustainable come seasons end.
I think we will look very hard at a number of players - Stringer , Sheringham, Shroeder , Cowan , Walker , Smedts, - if they don't progress considerably in 2014 it may be time to part company.
I think we will go hard in the Draft this season and wouldn't mind if we did a Collingwood and traded hard for lower picks.

Really from that list I can only see Smedts and Schroder becoming senior players this year. Unless there are injuries to others.

 

[Turbocat]

Totally agree cynical
We have had the minimum amount of draft picks over the last 2 years IIRC , despite having a number of veterans leaving in each year.
The by product of this is we have shown faith in a number of players some of whom have had LT injuries - I don't think this is sustainable come seasons end.
I think we will look very hard at a number of players - Stringer , Sheringham, Shroeder , Cowan , Walker , Smedts, - if they don't progress considerably in 2014 it may be time to part company.
I think we will go hard in the Draft this season and wouldn't mind if we did a Collingwood and traded hard for lower picks.

Two conflicting ideas here F2G. Get rid of the list cloggers and trade for lower picks.

From the names mentioned , would there be anyone that would gather us an early pick ie Collingwood? No.

Traditionally we have picked the players we like then have given them ample time (usually more than we would give) to show they can stand up.

To get the early picks , one must accept the pain that will come with that. The pain is usually trading someone we don't want to lose. For example Motlop. He would get us early picks. Just about anyone over 25 starts to lose trade appeal unless they are stars as most van go with FA . So while I love the idea , I also acknowledge it will be difficult and a bit more ruthless than we are used to being.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Two conflicting ideas here F2G. Get rid of the list cloggers and trade for lower picks.

From the names mentioned , would there be anyone that would gather us an early pick ie Collingwood? No.

Traditionally we have picked the players we like then have given them ample time (usually more than we would give) to show they can stand up.

To get the early picks , one must accept the pain that will come with that. The pain is usually trading someone we don't want to lose. For example Motlop. He would get us early picks. Just about anyone over 25 starts to lose trade appeal unless they are stars as most van go with FA . So while I love the idea , I also acknowledge it will be difficult and a bit more ruthless than we are used to being.

Probably got a bit carried away , defenitely the year to exit the list cloggers though.
If the MC wanted to do a Collingwood as well we would have plenty who would attract interest though. No doubt it would be painful - just depends on how far we want to go.
On the other hand maybe we will tank...............

 

[meto]

Totally agree cynical
We have had the minimum amount of draft picks over the last 2 years IIRC , despite having a number of veterans leaving in each year.
The by product of this is we have shown faith in a number of players some of whom have had LT injuries - I don't think this is sustainable come seasons end.
I think we will look very hard at a number of players - Stringer , Sheringham, Shroeder , Cowan , Walker , Smedts, - if they don't progress considerably in 2014 it may be time to part company.
I think we will go hard in the Draft this season and wouldn't mind if we did a Collingwood and traded hard for lower picks.

I think you're right, they've had long enough and we should've discerned by years end if any of these and a few others have come on and are worth keeping.
We'll really have to clean house this year as there'll be little in the way of retirements.

 

[dazbroncos]

I think you're right, they've had long enough and we should've discerned by years end if any of these and a few others have come on and are worth keeping.
We'll really have to clean house this year as there'll be little in the way of retirements.

I hope you are right… specifically Boris to go again..

GO Catters

 

[Lana]

I just don't see who we could part with that would be worth a pick in the top 20. by the end of this year most of our vets will be at least 29 going on to 30 in season 2015 ( we have no players from the 2003 and 2004 drafts on our list). All of our 26 year old players with currency are untouchable, Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor.

I feel people forget that we recently parted with a few players who at the time we didn't want to leave. The compensation gained netted us Motlop Duncan Smedts and Caddy.

We currently have more kids on the list than we can get games into. I have an attitude of wait and see which ones develop into AFL standard players.

 

[meto]

I hope you are right… specifically Boris to go again..

GO Catters

He's got to be one of the all-time greats.

 

[Turbocat]

I just don't see who we could part with that would be worth a pick in the top 20. by the end of this year most of our vets will be at least 29 going on to 30 in season 2015 ( we have no players from the 2003 and 2004 drafts on our list). All of our 26 year old players with currency are untouchable, Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor.
...

The only way its going to work is if give up a youthful ready to play quality kid or two. Motlop or a Duncan or a Vardy that sort of player would be who we dont want to trade so ..as much Id like to get it done , cant see it getting done unless we finish a lot closer to the bottom.

 

[Partridge]

I just don't see who we could part with that would be worth a pick in the top 20. by the end of this year most of our vets will be at least 29 going on to 30 in season 2015 ( we have no players from the 2003 and 2004 drafts on our list). All of our 26 year old players with currency are untouchable, Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor.

I feel people forget that we recently parted with a few players who at the time we didn't want to leave. The compensation gained netted us Motlop Duncan Smedts and Caddy.

We currently have more kids on the list than we can get games into. I have an attitude of wait and see which ones develop into AFL standard players.

Who?

 

[4quarter_cat]

Can only assume he is talking about King and Junior.

 

[4quarter_cat]

Or perhaps he is talking about Gardiner and Tenace.

 

[Seeds]

I just don't see who we could part with that would be worth a pick in the top 20. by the end of this year most of our vets will be at least 29 going on to 30 in season 2015 ( we have no players from the 2003 and 2004 drafts on our list). All of our 26 year old players with currency are untouchable, Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor.

I feel people forget that we recently parted with a few players who at the time we didn't want to leave. The compensation gained netted us Motlop Duncan Smedts and Caddy.

We currently have more kids on the list than we can get games into. I have an attitude of wait and see which ones develop into AFL standard players.

Since when is a player who can be traded for an under 20 pick not an untouchable?

 

[vinum coupe]

You would not trade any of those players for pick 1.

 

[Partridge]

Can only assume he is talking about King and Junior.

Well yes Ablett we definitely didn't want to leave, but the club could do nothing about that. King was finished, and proved it by playing precisely 0 good games for St.Kilda.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Or perhaps he is talking about Gardiner and Tenace.

Gardiner and Playfair, duh!

 

[Spemonie]

I just don't see who we could part with that would be worth a pick in the top 20. by the end of this year most of our vets will be at least 29 going on to 30 in season 2015 ( we have no players from the 2003 and 2004 drafts on our list). All of our 26 year old players with currency are untouchable, Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor.

I feel people forget that we recently parted with a few players who at the time we didn't want to leave. The compensation gained netted us Motlop Duncan Smedts and Caddy.

We currently have more kids on the list than we can get games into. I have an attitude of wait and see which ones develop into AFL standard players.

Mitch Duncan we also got from a player (Shane Mumford) that departed.

 

[Lana]

Since when is a player who can be traded for an under 20 pick not an untouchable?

When I say untouchable I mean I wouldn't trade any of those three for pick 1 and change. Quality players that a team values can be traded if the club feels that it needs the extra draft picks like Vince or Wellingham, I just don't think that anyone on our list fits the profile as having currency while still being expendable.

Does anyone care to list the players on our list who would have a trade values of a top 20 pick in the 2014 trade week(s)

I am surprised that no one picked up on Prismal, we did offer him a contract that he passed over for a lucrative three year deal at Essendon. Got us pick 39 which became Motlop

 

[Seeds]

When I say untouchable I mean I wouldn't trade any of those three for pick 1 and change. Quality players that a team values can be traded if the club feels that it needs the extra draft picks like Vince or Wellingham, I just don't think that anyone on our list fits the profile as having currency while still being expendable.

Does anyone care to list the players on our list who would have a trade values of a top 20 pick in the 2014 trade week(s)

I am surprised that no one picked up on Prismal, we did offer him a contract that he passed over for a lucrative three year deal at Essendon. Got us pick 39 which became Motlop

I would trade Duncan, Caddy, Christensen for pick 1 quite easily and they would easily get a top 20 pick on the open market. Guthrie probably would too.

 

[4quarter_cat]

I would trade Duncan, Caddy, Christensen for pick 1 quite easily and they would easily get a top 20 pick on the open market. Guthrie probably would too.

Good thing you're not our coach then. 90% of first picks would take at least 2 years work to become the players that all duncan caddy and Christensen already are.