Game Day 2024 Grand Final - South Melbourne vs Fitzroy, Sat 28 Sept at MCG 2:30pm

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Pure_Ownage said:
100 %. And I think it was our last chance to get a flag with this group.
Click to expand...
I feel quite the opposite. Smith in. Clark develops. Bruhn, Dempsey, COS, Mannagh, Humpries, Neale develop. SDK back in form.
Jezza good for 2 more years.

cons are Danger and Stewart and Blitz slowing down.



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juzcat said:
I feel quite the opposite. Smith in. Clark develops. Bruhn, Dempsey, COS, Mannagh, Humpries, Neale develop. SDK back in form.
Jezza good for 2 more years.

cons are Danger and Stewart and Blitz slowing down.



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Click to expand...
The thing about players developing is that there is no guarantee it happens or that it happens when or how you expect. Moreover, often with younger players, their progression is not linear. Take SDK himself as an example. Fantastic breakout year in 2022, but a couple of injury setbacks later and he has struggled. A poor 18 months as a KPD and then an attempt to re-establish him as a ruck which he didn't particularly excel at either.

Same for guys like Dempsey or Humphries. No guarantee they even have years as good as this let alone get better. For the others, we're hoping for just the same as every other supporter group is, and that is that our largely untried and untested youth realise their potential to become high-quality AFL players and propel us up the ladder. Issue is, for most clubs that does not happen, and we're no exception. We're in competition with every other club for the youth to come good, and some clubs have much better stocks in the area than us.

You cannot rely on youth coming through to ensure you will be good the following year. You can just look at the established talent. You are fortunate if you can get young players developing to complement it; but that has to be taken as a happy accident rather than an expectation. For us, the reason why most punters would have us on the downward trend is that we are losing more established talent than we are gaining, and much of the other established talent we have are getting another year into very long AFL careers. Lose Hawkins, Tuohy and Rohan, and the likes of Duncan, Bews, Danger, Blicavs, Stanley are regular players we rely on that are just deteriorating further and further.
 

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Pure_Ownage said:
100 %. And I think it was our last chance to get a flag with this group.
Click to expand...

Well of course, as we won't have the same group of players next year. Hell, 9 of them have already been taken off the list.
 
Biggy_Boy said:
The thing about players developing is that there is no guarantee it happens or that it happens when or how you expect. Moreover, often with younger players, their progression is not linear. Take SDK himself as an example. Fantastic breakout year in 2022, but a couple of injury setbacks later and he has struggled. A poor 18 months as a KPD and then an attempt to re-establish him as a ruck which he didn't particularly excel at either.

Same for guys like Dempsey or Humphries. No guarantee they even have years as good as this let alone get better. For the others, we're hoping for just the same as every other supporter group is, and that is that our largely untried and untested youth realise their potential to become high-quality AFL players and propel us up the ladder. Issue is, for most clubs that does not happen, and we're no exception. We're in competition with every other club for the youth to come good, and some clubs have much better stocks in the area than us.

You cannot rely on youth coming through to ensure you will be good the following year. You can just look at the established talent. You are fortunate if you can get young players developing to complement it; but that has to be taken as a happy accident rather than an expectation. For us, the reason why most punters would have us on the downward trend is that we are losing more established talent than we are gaining, and much of the other established talent we have are getting another year into very long AFL careers. Lose Hawkins, Tuohy and Rohan, and the likes of Duncan, Bews, Danger, Blicavs, Stanley are regular players we rely on that are just deteriorating further and further.
Click to expand...
Sure- there is no telling, but this is a pretty half -empty take. Crikey- what is following football, if it isn’t about hope and belief and fun?
Wells and Mackie are very smart cookies and they are choosing decent lads. All the younger players have made improvements, or are showing good signs. Sdk has been a different player after his injury but he still may well get back to where he was.
The retirements and deterioration won’t impact that much because the input from most of the players you mention has been steadily declining anyway and we are covering that. Dangerfield will be a loss but he can be managed sensibly whilst we develop/pick up a couple of quality mids.
And player development can always surprise-just as much as someone expected to become really good, doesn’t. The reverse can happen and I’d have thought we’ve had quite a bit of ‘luck’ with that.
Besides- it’s never that simple anyway- teams with more talented lists than ours, didn’t do as well as us this year. Plenty of factors go in to it.
 
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Biggy_Boy said:
The thing about players developing is that there is no guarantee it happens or that it happens when or how you expect. Moreover, often with younger players, their progression is not linear. Take SDK himself as an example. Fantastic breakout year in 2022, but a couple of injury setbacks later and he has struggled. A poor 18 months as a KPD and then an attempt to re-establish him as a ruck which he didn't particularly excel at either.

Same for guys like Dempsey or Humphries. No guarantee they even have years as good as this let alone get better. For the others, we're hoping for just the same as every other supporter group is, and that is that our largely untried and untested youth realise their potential to become high-quality AFL players and propel us up the ladder. Issue is, for most clubs that does not happen, and we're no exception. We're in competition with every other club for the youth to come good, and some clubs have much better stocks in the area than us.

You cannot rely on youth coming through to ensure you will be good the following year. You can just look at the established talent. You are fortunate if you can get young players developing to complement it; but that has to be taken as a happy accident rather than an expectation. For us, the reason why most punters would have us on the downward trend is that we are losing more established talent than we are gaining, and much of the other established talent we have are getting another year into very long AFL careers. Lose Hawkins, Tuohy and Rohan, and the likes of Duncan, Bews, Danger, Blicavs, Stanley are regular players we rely on that are just deteriorating further and further.
Click to expand...

I agree...but the realistic outcome next year is probably neither as grim as some see it, nor as rosy as others would like.

If nothing else, a harder draw may slide us out of the top 4. Add a couple of key injuries and we could be teetering on the brink of finals (especially since we've cleaned out depth). But a streak like the 7-0 this year or a bit of luck injury-wise and there's no reason we could snatch a top 4 spot again.
 
Biggy_Boy said:
The thing about players developing is that there is no guarantee it happens or that it happens when or how you expect. Moreover, often with younger players, their progression is not linear. Take SDK himself as an example. Fantastic breakout year in 2022, but a couple of injury setbacks later and he has struggled. A poor 18 months as a KPD and then an attempt to re-establish him as a ruck which he didn't particularly excel at either.

Same for guys like Dempsey or Humphries. No guarantee they even have years as good as this let alone get better. For the others, we're hoping for just the same as every other supporter group is, and that is that our largely untried and untested youth realise their potential to become high-quality AFL players and propel us up the ladder. Issue is, for most clubs that does not happen, and we're no exception. We're in competition with every other club for the youth to come good, and some clubs have much better stocks in the area than us.

You cannot rely on youth coming through to ensure you will be good the following year. You can just look at the established talent. You are fortunate if you can get young players developing to complement it; but that has to be taken as a happy accident rather than an expectation. For us, the reason why most punters would have us on the downward trend is that we are losing more established talent than we are gaining, and much of the other established talent we have are getting another year into very long AFL careers. Lose Hawkins, Tuohy and Rohan, and the likes of Duncan, Bews, Danger, Blicavs, Stanley are regular players we rely on that are just deteriorating further and further.
Click to expand...
Yeah progression aint linear. Some we expect to improve will go backwards. But others you wont expect to improve because they have been flat for 1-2 years will break out. Sdk being an obvious candidate. As is bruhn.
 
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo said:
Apparently Josh wasn't keen on heading to Sydney, opting to remain in Victoria? Haven't got a source but seen it been thrown around a bit.
Click to expand...
Nah, he nominated Swans as his preferred club under father-son, and when the Dogs bid on him at P25, Swans refused to match. Obviously didn't value him highly enough.

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stevothedevo said:
Like others have said, it feels like an opportunity lost. But if I truly believe that, then I'm a hypocrite. I've continually belittled Collingwood supporters for their 2007 remarks of "Oh we only lost that premiership by 5 points"
No, you did not and no we did not.
Click to expand...

Yeah, on reflection we had significant struggles through the year, fell into the top 4, played a poor side between weeks off, hit the PF with less than peak fitness and conditioning, then lost Holmes and Bruhn to injury and had the likes of Stengle play very poorly indeed.

We gave it our best shot, and just fell short. We had no more to give.
 
Finally caught the replay.

We like to make football a complicated game when it really isn't

At the business end of the season players need to go harder for longer and beat their direct opponent in the contest

Brisbane did this and really broke the game open in half a quarter

Kicked 6 straight and took their opportunities making the moments count!

Scoreboard actually flattered Sydney
 
Biggy_Boy said:
I agree and said as much going into the game. Felt it was Brisbane's last chance for a while, because they've been up for so long and a number of their key players are now in the twilight of their careers. They have some good quality kids coming through but I don't know if that would be enough to keep them in contention past this year.

Sydney, however, have been driven by mostly young players. Their midfield, for instance, is still very young. They'll continue to be in contention for a while, but they may need to re-work how they play, because it's clear at the moment that it doesn't stack up in GFs. As good as the midfield may be, seems they need to get better at winning in the contest. Might take a few down year for them to figure out how to play premiership footy.
Click to expand...
Brisbane are getting another Ashcroft that’s even better than his brother and 4 of their best 22 back from ACL’s.
Doesn’t seem fair but it is what it is.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they are top 2 next year.
 
Frank Bunn said:
Didn't GAJ's form take off after they had the group honesty sessions and he was told he needed to work harder? It seems Ashcroft already has a great attitude.
Click to expand...
Spot-on, end 2006 or 07- he was told he could "be our Chris Judd"
 
Footy_Fan2007 said:
Brisbane are getting another Ashcroft that’s even better than his brother and 4 of their best 22 back from ACL’s.
Doesn’t seem fair but it is what it is.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they are top 2 next year.
Click to expand...
The hard part is that it used to be pretty easy to prepare to play Brissy. Tag neale? Check. Keep Cameron quiet? Check. Job done.

Now they still have Cameron but Lohmann and Ah Chee are running wild. Neale is dropping off but Dunkley and Ashcroft are a menace.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
The hard part is that it used to be pretty easy to prepare to play Brissy. Tag neale? Check. Keep Cameron quiet? Check. Job done.

Now they still have Cameron but Lohmann and Ah Chee are running wild. Neale is dropping off but Dunkley and Ashcroft are a menace.
Click to expand...
Neale was BOG yesterday in my view. Not dropping off at all.
 
stevothedevo said:
Like others have said, it feels like an opportunity lost. But if I truly believe that, then I'm a hypocrite. I've continually belittled Collingwood supporters for their 2007 remarks of "Oh we only lost that premiership by 5 points"
No, you did not and no we did not.
Click to expand...
The fallacy of this belief is assuming that if (hypothetically) the Cats had beat the Lions in the Prelim, is that Sydney would have played the same against us as they did against Brisbane, and thus, we would have won the flag. There is no way you can assume this. In fact, it's quite possible that if it were a Sydney V Geelong GF, the swans would have come out very revved up because of the defeat we inflicted on them two years ago. The revenge motivation. Sydney is capable of playing much better than they did yesterday. That was a poor performance by them.
 
Champion Data - What a joke -

AFL PLAYER RATINGS FROM 2024 GRAND FINAL

1. Lachie Neale, Brisbane Lions (21.5 points)
2. Will Ashcroft, Brisbane Lions (19.3)
3. Brodie Grundy, Sydney Swans (19.2)
4. James Rowbottom, Sydney Swans (17)
5. Robbie Fox, Sydney Swans (15.3)
6. Luke Parker, Sydney Swans (14.7)

4 of the top 6 'rated' players on the ground were Sydney players?

Luke Parker better and more influential than both Lohmann and Ah Chee?

Surely ANYONE who works at Champion Data would look at this and think.... Hmmm, perhaps how we do our ratings is SERIOUSLY flawed..
 
Mangy Carl said:
Champion Data - What a joke -

AFL PLAYER RATINGS FROM 2024 GRAND FINAL

1. Lachie Neale, Brisbane Lions (21.5 points)
2. Will Ashcroft, Brisbane Lions (19.3)
3. Brodie Grundy, Sydney Swans (19.2)
4. James Rowbottom, Sydney Swans (17)
5. Robbie Fox, Sydney Swans (15.3)
6. Luke Parker, Sydney Swans (14.7)

4 of the top 6 'rated' players on the ground were Sydney players?

Luke Parker better and more influential than both Lohmann and Ah Chee?

Surely ANYONE who works at Champion Data would look at this and think.... Hmmm, perhaps how we do our ratings is SERIOUSLY flawed..
Click to expand...

Wasn't it champion data (I won't capitalise them since they suck so often) that had 3 port players in the top handful of players in the 07 GF?
It's a very flawed system at times.
 
Mangy Carl said:
Champion Data - What a joke -

AFL PLAYER RATINGS FROM 2024 GRAND FINAL

1. Lachie Neale, Brisbane Lions (21.5 points)
2. Will Ashcroft, Brisbane Lions (19.3)
3. Brodie Grundy, Sydney Swans (19.2)
4. James Rowbottom, Sydney Swans (17)
5. Robbie Fox, Sydney Swans (15.3)
6. Luke Parker, Sydney Swans (14.7)

4 of the top 6 'rated' players on the ground were Sydney players?

Luke Parker better and more influential than both Lohmann and Ah Chee?

Surely ANYONE who works at Champion Data would look at this and think.... Hmmm, perhaps how we do our ratings is SERIOUSLY flawed..
Click to expand...

Not really, you're only looking at one side of it, 9 out 10 of the bottom rated players on the ground played for Sydney.
 

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Game Day 2024 Grand Final - South Melbourne vs Fitzroy, Sat 28 Sept at MCG 2:30pm

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