Time to shut it down because it’s going around in circles.
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AFL overtaking NRL in QLD
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No way shut it down.
Will be a timeless thread to monitor AFL growth in Queensland.
This thread will live forever.
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A lot of claims have been made, but nothing factual has surfaced.
YES TIME TO SHUT IT DOWN
YES TIME TO SHUT IT DOWN
AFL is obviously never going to take over Queensland, so a less divisive thread title such as ‘AFL growth in Queensland’ might help sensible discussion.
Absolutely. I have a keen interest since I’m living in QLD, but some of the commentary about Rugby league is embarrassing to be honest. It’s definitely going from strength to strength.
Is AFL growing in Queensland? Absolutely. Can it grow further? Of course! But its best bet would be coexisting with rugby league.
NRL is Australian. Rugby league has nearly 120 years of proud history in this country. Nothing wrong with promoting Australian football as Australian, but telling NSW and QLD people that rugby league is not Australian and a Pomme game is downright embarrassing.
obviously ?
never ?
It's not "obvious" to me and "never" is an extremely long time.
It wasn't so long ago that people were saying.......
It also matters what k.p.i. a person chooses.a.t.m.
Bjo187
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Your post is downright embarrassing. The conversation was around Australian football being Australian and rugby league being imported from England. Which is factually and historically correct. Is soccer Australian now too because of the A league? lol.
On another note you were also confused by, the thread title and OP was actually about 'what would it take for the afl to overtake the nrl in qld'.
I agree with this, it stops blokes like coconut twirl and the plethora of leaguie trolls coming in here triggered coz of the title and derailing the thread. I did ask the wookie to change it previously but he wasn't keen and said there are other threads on the topic. However, those threads haven't been touched in years and don't have an audience and history on footy in qld like this one does.
On another note, yes you'd think it unlikely it takes over in the immediate future, but the way the world is now kids have access to things all over the country and world at the touch of a button, so choose what they like, not what they're indoctrinated in like previously. They will choose what's the most entertaining. The three disadvantages I see the afl have to overcome are:
1. History and culture (although this changes quickly now coz of the internet, the bullying of kids playing Aussie rules is hopefully decreasing).
2. State of origin, the fact the nrl has a whole state to be engaged 3x a year behind it helps, hopefully footy gets to the point where qld could compete against Victoria in a state game. The talent they're churning out could make that possible in 10 to 15 years.
3. The AFL management is the weakest I've seen it in my memory. Dillon and Goyder compared to Abdo and Vlandy's, the latter two are running rings around them at the moment. This includes the extrodinary government funding of the 'league and sport itself' through expansion, not just infrastructure for an expansion club, like all previous examples. Meanwhile Dillon and the AFL can't even get a stadium in Brisbane over the line despite one being needed for the Olympics. Again, this shows the NRL influence in their traditional state of QLD over government, compared to the AFL in a place like W.A that appears to have zero influence.
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In fairness to Dillion, he has not been in the role for long. I would give him another 2-3 years before evaluating him on this issue. It is a long term play getting a foot and growing in a new market.
i agree.
There doesn't see to be any real objective not even any affirmation that the AFL are going to keep on doing what they have been doing.
The AFL international cup has been replaced by even less promoted regional cups.
No updates about Tasmania.
No news of Ireland.
No developmental musings.
The only news is N.M. in Perth but NOTHING about the reasons and implications.
If i was running the AFL i would talking things up even if it is just talk.
Talk about S.O.O.
Talk about the need for a 20th team now that the 19th team is under way.
Talk about the importance of Australian Football to the economy of Australia.
Get into the Brisbane stadium debate and state clearly what is the best option.
Talk about the possibility of International rules returning.
- Moderator
- #2,111
Wouldnt matter. the same actors would still act the same way.
I enjoy reading about the anecdotal experiences about people’s experiences of Australian football when they have been traveling/living in QLD. Adds an interesting viewpoint and they have experienced some time in the state.
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- #2,113
In what way are Vlandys and co running rings around the AFL admin?
The latter two are trying to catch up to where the AFL are now. Expansion is driven by a desperation to beat the AFLs tv rights. Stadium developments in NSW are driven by NSWs need to try to keep up with Victoria. And vlandys is driven by a hatred of all things Victoria.
Going to Vegas is not something the AFL can do with the stadiums on offer.
PNG type options are not available to the AFL - this is a unique situation driven by Australias foreign affairs requirements, and the Government of PNG. On the other hand, Perth is almost a replica of what the AFL is getting in Tasmania in terms of stadium and funding.
Its hard to advocate for something thats not on offer. Its not proposed, nor is it likely to be proposed by the Government unless the review gives a spectacular backflip. In this instance the AFL likely believes the Gabba is fit for purpose, and the Lions arent so much demanding a new stadium as they are hopeful, and requiring somewhere to play in the meantime.
how does Olympic infrastructure decisions that dont benefit the NRL in any way demonstrate that.
Bjo187
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I'll indulge despite this being explained numerous times throughout the thread. Don't delete it all like you did last time when you asked why I thought albo was a rugby league shill and then when I gave examples you deleted it as 'off topic'
. If only you were as proactive in changing the title of the thread that about 5 people have asked for.Anyhow, V'landy's gives his sport free promotion, he has media and government wrapped around his finger. He actively blocks it's main competitor out of media coverage in the northern states (ch9 rep spoke on this), blocks fields being used in Sydney for afl (Jimmy bartel mentioned this), then gets exorbitant funding for his sport without ever having to chip in like the afl always have to, even for community facilities (easy enough to find these examples everywhere online). That's before we even get to him getting government to fund the sports entire expansion into png and w.a. which also includes grassroots and development, something the afl have never achieved and had to pay for themselves every time.
These deals compared to the ones the afl got for the suns and giants are not even on the same page. They barely got anything from government and were operating out of tin sheds for years. He has gotten over 1 billion in government funding for 2 expansion clubs in a cost of living crisis, one from a non traditional market that weren't demanding a team, that is even better than the Tassie deal the afl got a few years back. This despite the Tasmanian government forcing the afl into expanding when they didn't want to. The afl are even chipping in 30 mill for Tasmania's new stadium and training facility. If reports are right, the NRL aren't chipping in for anything, even the stadium upgrade, temporary training facility and permanent training facility in both Fremantle and Perth. That's before we even start on the w.a government funding the whole growth of the sport on the NRL's behalf and paying for it all, plus putting rugby league into the curriculum of 26 Perth schools.
Add to this the over $100 million in profits the NRL has made over the past 2 years whilst adding a 17th team, double the AFL's profits.
There is so much they've done in the past few years, compared to Goyder. W.A footy has gone backwards under his watch and he's from W.A. Then Dillon, he literally hasn't done anything in his first year. The last good things from the AFL I can remember were the tv rights deal (which we now see had a lot of parts to it that weren't announced at the time to boost the price) and gather round, both under Gillon not Dillon.
Dillon can't even get the AFLW grand final on 7 main into Brisbane. Nobody will even find it on the 4th page of their tv guide. It's embarrassing how little influence he has.
Lol good one. We've done this chat before, I'm sure albo funding this will stop the png government ever taking Chinese money ever again too
. A rugby league reporter was even there mid last year and said the locals don't even want a team. It's a way for albo to fund his favourite sport and their expansion internationally, you know it and I know it. Heck, even my leaguie mate in QLD thinks this.Umm maybe the fact the independent committee set up by QLD labor and led by former Lord mayor Graham Quirk recommended a new stadium in Victoria park. Then Steven miles was influenced by nrl friend John Coates, the NRL commissioners and former labor mates Peter beattie and miles own bestie in Kate Jones, to ensure the afl don't get a leg up in Brisbane via a new stadium. So instead, miles came up with a preposterous qsac idea and 1 billion in funding to expand Suncorp stadium, which benefits you guessed it, the nrl. One which he even got Wally Lewis wheeled out for to announce. The lions have said publically forever and even wrote to the new premier recently that they want a new stadium at Olympic park, it's the obvious and best option for both them, cricket, the Olympics and legacy infrastructure. But now the new government are playing games (the new sports minister is a former nrl referee which won't help).
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- Moderator
- #2,115
I'll indulge despite this being explained numerous times throughout the thread. Don't delete it all this time like you did last time when you asked why I thought albo was a rugby league shill and then when I gave examples you deleted it as 'off topic', despite you being the one that raised the topic
And Ill indluge this despite commentary on moderation decisions not being permitted. You were lucky this post wasnt deleted as well.
Hes the chairman of the NRL. Its his job to promote it. And he's loud, pbnoxious and the media love him for it. He is for all intents and purposes, Andrew Demetriou in NRL form.
Id love to see that citation.
Going to need more than Bartels word im afraid. AFL personalities have stoked the fear as much as any NRL media unit. I havent seen widespread reports of this anywhere.
The AFL is unique in volunteering funding, to the point that its become an expectation. In that its made something of a rod for its own back.
The AFL is literally doing this in Tasmania. Except the 11 million a year going to the AFL team to stay viable in Tasmania is going to Grassroots development in Perth.
PNG is a different case altogether.
The Tasmanian AFL deal isnt on the same page as the suns and giants either. Different times, different strategies.
The Perth deal really isnt better than the Tassie one at all.
The deals are different. The Governments are different and their requirements are different.
And while I know this is one of your favoured tangents, profit in these bodies is simply not that black and white.
They've been playing catch up. And they are still nowhere near it on almost every possible metric - except social media for some reason.
Goyder isnt a member of the WAFC and lives in Victoria. And on what metrics has WA Footy gone backwards? You cant blame the form of the Eagles on Goyder.
There were things people didnt pay attention to when the rights were announced
Lol good one. We've done this chat before, I'm sure albo funding this will stop the png government ever taking Chinese money ever again too
Doesnt really matter what any individual thinks, its what the PM, and Foreign Affairs, and the PNG Gov think in this regard.
Coates, - Athletics Australias Coates - wanted QSAC upgrades for his chosen area.
Im sure this really happened.
If you look at it dispassionately for 5 minutes, and remember the most popular professional sport in Brisbane isnt the AFL AND that Lang Park is the primary sports venue in Queensland it does make some sort of sense to upgrade for the Olympics.
The same proposal had modest upgrades for the Gabba. We'll see what comes of the 100 day review.
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I'll indulge despite this being explained numerous times throughout the thread. Don't delete it all like you did last time when you asked why I thought albo was a rugby league shill and then when I gave examples you deleted it as 'off topic'
Anyhow, V'landy's gives his sport free promotion, he has media and government wrapped around his finger. He actively blocks it's main competitor out of media coverage in the northern states (ch9 rep spoke on this), blocks fields being used in Sydney for afl (Jimmy bartel mentioned this), then gets exorbitant funding for his sport without ever having to chip in like the afl always have to, even for community facilities (easy enough to find these examples everywhere online). That's before we even get to him getting government to fund the sports entire expansion into png and w.a. which also includes grassroots and development, something the afl have never achieved and had to pay for themselves every time.
These deals compared to the ones the afl got for the suns and giants are not even on the same page. They barely got anything from government and were operating out of tin sheds for years. He has gotten over 1 billion in government funding for 2 expansion clubs in a cost of living crisis, one from a non traditional market that weren't demanding a team, that is even better than the Tassie deal the afl got a few years back. This despite the Tasmanian government forcing the afl into expanding when they didn't want to. The afl are even chipping in 30 mill for Tasmania's new stadium and training facility. If reports are right, the NRL aren't chipping in for anything, even the stadium upgrade, temporary training facility and permanent training facility in both Fremantle and Perth. That's before we even start on the w.a government funding the whole growth of the sport on the NRL's behalf and paying for it all, plus putting rugby league into the curriculum of 26 Perth schools.
Add to this the over $100 million in profits the NRL has made over the past 2 years whilst adding a 17th team, double the AFL's profits.
There is so much they've done in the past few years, compared to Goyder. W.A footy has gone backwards under his watch and he's from W.A. Then Dillon, he literally hasn't done anything in his first year. The last good things from the AFL I can remember were the tv rights deal (which we now see had a lot of parts to it that weren't announced at the time to boost the price) and gather round, both under Gillon not Dillon.
Dillon can't even get the AFLW grand final on 7 main into Brisbane. Nobody will even find it on the 4th page of their tv guide. It's embarrassing how little influence he has.
Lol good one. We've done this chat before, I'm sure albo funding this will stop the png government ever taking Chinese money ever again too
Umm maybe the fact the independent committee set up by QLD labor and led by former Lord mayor Graham Quirk recommended a new stadium in Victoria park. Then Steven miles was influenced by nrl friend John Coates, the NRL commissioners and former labor mates Peter beattie and miles own bestie in Kate Jones, to ensure the afl don't get a leg up in Brisbane via a new stadium. So instead, miles came up with a preposterous qsac idea and 1 billion in funding to expand Suncorp stadium, which benefits you guessed it, the nrl. One which he even got Wally Lewis wheeled out for to announce. The lions have said publically forever and even wrote to the new premier recently that they want a new stadium at Olympic park, it's the obvious and best option for both them, cricket, the Olympics and legacy infrastructure. But now the new government are playing games (the new sports minister is a former nrl referee which won't help).
There are some truths and half truths in this post but on those I think you are considerably off the mark I'll offer the following:
To the extent V'Landys has "the media wrapped around his finger", it is because he gave the two biggest media companies (particularly new ltd) TV rights at significant unders. He is an extreme narcissist and so flattery is very effective. Let's see how news limited behave if he dares attempt to give the next rights to anyone but news ltd
The NRL is not doing better financially than the AFL. Your focus on profits in the last two years is misguided. The NRL has much lower net assets than the AFL to start off with. There is no benefit for a NFP to have "profits" beyond having contingency. In reality, the NRL has gutted every expense item since before covid (i.e. 2019) including development, media, states and affiliates, and integrity (probably all the areas where financial benefits are best considered over decades).
The only expense item massively increasing was the "clubs and players" one. This was inevitable when the NRL Commission in 2016 got bullied into signing a "130 percent of salary cap" funding deal for NRL clubs https://www.afr.com/companies/sport...d-its-130pc-club-funding-deal-20161202-gt2cwy
The Gap between the revenue of the AFL and NRL has never been bigger.....and that is before the new TV deal kicks in next year
Yes, lets talk dispassionately for 5 minutes,
Depending on which k.p.i.you choose to look at.
Why do NRL proponents seem to take the electorate first-past-the-post view
in that "we're the most popular, we win, we take all and you get nothing."
instead of a proportional view.
No. AND that Lang Park is the primary rectangualr sports venue in Queensland
It makes sense to put money into a conventional Olympic Stadium like every other host
especially as you have a good chance of recovering regular rents from AFL, CA as well many sports and events.etc.
I don't see much value in updating Lang Park/
Depends on what you mean by Queensland. Do you mean the majority of people living in Queensland? That essentially just means Brisbane and if that's the case then I would agree it's unlikely that the AFL will overtake the NRL in popularity for the foreseeable future in Brisbane.
If you mean any part of Queensland then I disagree. The Gold Coast and Cairns are far closer to a 50/50 situation than Brisbane is. Even the Sunshine Coast has a decent Aussie rules following these days. Can the AFL overtake the NRL in terms of popularity in those Queensland markets? Absolutely IMO.
People tend to think Brisbane is representative of the whole state of Queensland. It's simply not true.
Yes, I agree. I’ve been in SEQ for nearly 3 years and have been coming here for decades regularly. The growth of the sport has been terrific, watching first hand.
Best way for me to describe the growth is that AFL used to be a niche sport playing second fiddle to league and largely covered when the local team won a match. Nowadays, it’s on the news nearly each night, it’s occupying lots of space in the daily newspapers and even the local ABC radio shows do outside broadcasts in Melbourne in support of their sides.
I sense the Covid QLD roadshow combined with prolonged Lions success has really helped grow the game. Academies also really driving participation here, they cover their local academy prospects on the news with pride.
AFL is highly visible in SEQ, it wasn’t 20 years ago.
Then there’s memberships, crowds, etc…..
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Pick almost any KPI. The AFL isnt close to overtaking rugby league.
Who has ever actually said this?
Suncorp is the states primary venue. And by miles.
The Gabba 2023-24
Suncorp 2023-24
It makes sense to invest in a major stadium. In NSW and Queensland that doesnt necessarily mean the AFL/Cricket hegemoney that exists elsewhere, but particularly in Queensland where league remains a major drawcard.
The data shows theres a greater chance of getting that back at Lang Park. Other than AFL and Cricket, every rectanglur sport of note - which is all the others really - is going to Suncorp. Concert events go to Suncorp. And the only time they dont....is when Suncorp is occupied or unavailable.
Lions outdraw Broncos.
.
Come on, Almost every NRL thinks like this.
So why would anyone want Lang park upgraded ?
Well an Olympic Stadium for Brisbane would be at the top of the list.
You mean the highly successful model of AFL, CA, concerts and all other professional football codes
And you've just stated that they have their own stadiums.
Why not the highly successful multi sports Perth model
But you've just said Suncorp is better.
What's wrong with Suncorp which you sing the praises of ?
Brisbane needs an Olympic stadium and there's one option that stands out - it's as simple as that.
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Lions don't outdraw Broncos.
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Those crowds seem crazy high for Suncorp, well above what I would’ve expected. Were there extra one off concerts, events last year that they wouldn’t usually get? Does that double count crowds for Magic round?
I remember hearing that Marvel was around that mark and even that really surprised me.
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- Moderator
- #2,124
excluding COVID not since 2005 on average.
then surely you have citations.
Why would anyone want a stadium upgraded? Its going to be nearly 30 years old come the Olympics.
And they can get what they need by other means.
In Queensland I mean the highly successful model of NRL, Rugby Union, Football, and concerts.
Because unlike Perth, the biggest drawing sport in Queensland isnt the AFL. They dont need to compromise on stadium shape.
I said it had greater patronage and was the primary go to venue - as borne out by the data.
By the Olympics it will be old enough to require significant work.
Certainly one option for you. Both the Gabba and Suncorp will be nearing an age where they need whole or part replacement in 2032.
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- #2,125
Marvel starts with an AFL attendance of 1.4m alone, throw in cricket, concerts and conferences and its neck and neck woth Optus Stadium for second most attended stadium. (2.04m in 2023-24)
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