Tasmania AFL Say No To Tassie Team

[telsor]

Why should I try to make sense if you dont?

Your Equating of a Tas team, perhaps based in Hobart & playing 1/2 home games in Launceston (or vice versa, & which would keep sponsorship money & Gument support & membership money in the state), with the FIFO club Hawthorn, (which takes its earnings back to Melbourne), Is just silly.

Do you now understand the difference? Maybe?

OK, I'll play your game....Go get your tinfoil hat and complain about the great big Victorian conspiracy to deny you what you deserve.


(yes, it's irrelevant to what you said, and playing the man rather than the ball, but that's all I seem to get from you).

 

[madmug]

I couldn't agree more.

The worst thing that happened was the AFL ending up running both the AFL competition and looking after the game itself. It means that the dollar and "what's best for the AFL competition" drive the decision making in relation to far too many aspects of our game.

You then see the flow on in a thread like this with numerous posts showing little if any feel for the game any more. We either see channelling of the AFL position or individual views which still use the AFL line of thinking and criteria.

The best thing for the game would be to leave the running of the competition to the AFL, with a separate body attending to matters affecting the game itself. Much like we had with the ANFC. But the "game" doesn't seem to matter any more, at least in comparison to the mighty dollar.

That way senior football in places like Tassie (and elsewhere no doubt) could be properly administered and grown without the greed, incompetence and self-interest of the AFL interfering left right and centre.

The problem is that there is no way in hell that the AFL would now relinquish the power it grabbed. It's all about self-interest and, as Papa G said, the whole arrangement now is just a Victorian-centric racket.

It seems lost on the AFL and many sycophantic others that this is an Australian game, not a Victorian one. Once the "Victorian ownership of the game" line of thinking is eliminated, then hopefully we can see our great game and places like Tassie treated with respect again.

It's worth posting this link again (thanks PapaG) for the information or people here.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...hlan-show-tassie-some-respect-20150823-gj5sg6

Some on here like to think others are pushing some conspiracy theory. Its the clear vested interest of the clubs already in the AFL & The benefits that accrue to the Victorian economy, via the pretend corporate behavior of the AFL, that is of concern.

The AFL has a conflict of interest. They took control of the game & its push towards running a national competition. When it comes to the clubs in the league & its operations, the league behaves like a social welfare organisation. They feign concern for supporters, various communities & the history of the game. If you are outside the boys club, they behave like corporate raiders with their snouts in the trough.

They are clearly too close to the Victorian Gument. It is the reason the northern part of the country are so anti-AFL, especially aspects of the media. They can see who runs the game & why. Its not an A in AFL, its a V.

 

[Lemma]

I don't know about you, but if I were offered a good six-figure salary as a young man to get a start/further my career and to work in a place I might not put on my bucket list, I would do it in a heartbeat. The Military do, and I have done it (I lived in some real crap countries in Africa and the Persian Gulf in my work) - so what is so special about footy players? It's called being professional. Tasmania is not Iraq.

It's all about the market though. If they want to leave (and current young population drops suggests they might), and can get a 6figure salary at a Melb club, then they will probably leave. Hence 'retention'. It's not about getting talent to go there, it's about keeping them there longer than a couple of years. It's gonna be harder to keep talent in Tasmania than it currently is to keep them in Brisbane.

 

[madmug]

It's all about the market though. If they want to leave (and current young population drops suggests they might), and can get a 6figure salary at a Melb club, then they will probably leave. Hence 'retention'. It's not about getting talent to go there, it's about keeping them there longer than a couple of years. It's gonna be harder to keep talent in Tasmania than it currently is to keep them in Brisbane.

Keeping players at clubs is all about opportunity & culture. Yes their is always some pull to ones original home. But I'd argue thats secondary to the first points.

The salary cap helps limit one club over another in recruiting & retention. Hawthorn have recruited well as they can offer the chance of success. GWS had players drafted & were given opportunity. Keeping them all will be difficult as western Sydney is an Aussie rules black hole. Players would be invisible & unknown to 99% of the population.

A Tassie team would have players fly out to play in other places every 2 weeks. Plenty of opportunity to visit 'home'. Also living in an aussie rules state they would be recognisable & in the limelight most of the time. A bit like Geelong, or NRL in Canberra, Townsville & Newcastle.

Dont forget that the Tassie tigers cricket recruit form other places. Why? Opportunity & culture.

Tassie also has lifestyle points which suit some. Yes excellent restaurants, Brilliant fishing & hunting which young guys love as a break from the AFL treadmill. I have friends who scuba dive, they say its amazing & so many places to spearfish & dive wrecks & reefs. Also world class surfing 1/2 hour from Hobart, thick wetsuits of course.

Their is a lifestyle advantage in being able to get away from a city in 1/2 hour. Living in Geelong would be similar.

Yes & Hobart's coffee shop now has the latest thing, Cappuccino & Chi Latte. Wowwee

 

[sherb]

Some on here like to think others are pushing some conspiracy theory.

It's no conspiracy theory. From the outside you can see it perfectly clearly.

I grew up with the VFL. Been watching it for nearly 50 years. I have no axe to grind with Victoria nor Victorians nor Victorian teams.

(As an example I will vigorously defend the right of the AFL competition to be regarded as continuous from 1897, in the face of the regular complaints of non-Victorian club supporters here).

But that doesn't mean that I can't clearly see the power structure in place in the game. And that doesn't mean it is beyond criticism either.

"Conspiracy theory" in this instance is just trotted out by those who want to defend the status quo, who are too blinkered to view the situation objectively - generally Victorians funnily enough.

 

[papabear]

is hobart a city?

that said, I don't see what all the screaming is about. If Tasmania is already sending money into the AFL via eyeballs / memberships etc, why would the AFL set up a club there?

 

[madmug]

is hobart a city?

that said, I don't see what all the screaming is about. If Tasmania is already sending money into the AFL via eyeballs / memberships etc, why would the AFL set up a club there?

Thanks for that illuminating input to the discussion. Says it all really.

Oh & goodluck with your new coach, from Tasmania infact. Gee I hope he does well

 

[Kwality]

The 'logic' used in this thread to justify the AFL's thinking is absurd.

The AFL already has Tasmanian people's support, so why bother giving them a team?......Well, the AFL already has 4m people in Victoria supporting AFL so why give them 10 teams? There are no AFL fans in GWS or GC, so let's give them teams, we need to convert them. Participation rates of Soccer in Tasmania are increasing, and the people deserting to Soccer fandom, so why should the AFL bother to invest in them?

There is so much contradictory logic in there.

4m in Victoria is enough for 4 teams max. Cull the rest. Relocate and/or start-up teams around Australia and NZ, to regions where you want to convert people from RL/Soccer/RU.

Assuming (ass-u-me) you tongue is not squarely in your cheek:
Did you not read/understand Martin Flanagans article - read it to understand the weakness of your argument - your approach is actively promoting soccer in Tas, a footy nursery - are you accepting you are pulling down our great game?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...show-tassie-some-respect-20150823-gj5sg6.html

The idea you want to convert people from other codes is interesting, I'd be attracting general sports fans, not devotees of other sports. Look at the number of people that dont attend/watch AFL footy on TV, its much much bigger than those who attend ALL sports on any given weekend.

Yes, the supply of footy in Melbourne exceeds the demand.

 

[Kwality]

It's all about the market though. If they want to leave (and current young population drops suggests they might), and can get a 6figure salary at a Melb club, then they will probably leave. Hence 'retention'. It's not about getting talent to go there, it's about keeping them there longer than a couple of years. It's gonna be harder to keep talent in Tasmania than it currently is to keep them in Brisbane.

Hence the decisions on preferential academies in growth markets contrary to the wishes of self interested Melbourne clubs - well expressed Lemma.

 

[Lemma]

Hence the decisions on preferential academies in growth markets contrary to the wishes of self interested Melbourne clubs - well expressed Lemma.

That wasn't my point but OK

 

[deltablues]

is hobart a city?

that said, I don't see what all the screaming is about. If Tasmania is already sending money into the AFL via eyeballs / memberships etc, why would the AFL set up a club there?

I don't think there is any screaming here, Bud, and your posting is reminiscent of the old aphorism - there are none so blind as those who will not see.

But here is a simple fact for you to process: hobart is not a city, but Hobart is.

 

[papabear]

hobart and its greater area had a population of 217k
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart

The question is should the AFL be run as a religion? and let those most deserving go into heaven.
Or run as a business and let those who make the most money come in?

AFL's growth over the past 20-30 years has been moving away from the religion and into the business aspect better then all the other codes, even if the pious dont see it or dont want to believe it.

 

[deltablues]

hobart and its greater area had a population of 217k
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart

The question is should the AFL be run as a religion? and let those most deserving go into heaven.
Or run as a business and let those who make the most money come in?

AFL's growth over the past 20-30 years has been moving away from the religion and into the business aspect better then all the other codes, even if the pious dont see it or dont want to believe it.

The question here is what is the AFL's role in respect of Australian Rules footy. I suppose footy to many fans is a kind of religion, but it doesn't have to be a binary situation as you suggest - the 2 questions you pose are the 2 jaws of the same dog.

An equitable outcome within the context of a Tasmanian team could soon be achieved if the AFL wanted it.

 

[sherb]

hobart and its greater area had a population of 217k
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart

The question is should the AFL be run as a religion? and let those most deserving go into heaven.
Or run as a business and let those who make the most money come in?

AFL's growth over the past 20-30 years has been moving away from the religion and into the business aspect better then all the other codes, even if the pious dont see it or dont want to believe it.

Another who buys the AFL's propaganda.

You are obviously unaware that the AFL is also the custodian of the game itself.

So it has far wider responsibilities than just "money" and "treating it as a business".

 

[madmug]

Another who buys the AFL's propaganda.

You are obviously unaware that the AFL is also the custodian of the game itself.

So it has far wider responsibilities than just "money" and "treating it as a business".

Also if they treated it like a business, a lot of current clubs would be out of business or under very lose supervision.

You cant both be a welfare centre for those groups inside the tent & a hard brutal business for those outside. Then be the self appointed guardian of the game, with the obvious conflict of interest that that entails.

 

[sherb]

Also if they treated it like a business, a lot of current clubs would be out of business or under very lose supervision.

You cant both be a welfare centre for those groups inside the tent & a hard brutal business for those outside. Then be the self appointed guardian of the game, with the obvious conflict of interest that that entails.

Well, yes, I nearly mentioned that to the poster concerned, because his (also my) club would be one that would have been under the microscope no doubt.

If it is such a business as he suggests, we wouldn't have 10 clubs in Victoria.

*Inflict strict business requirements on a Tasmanian club wanting to enter, act as Centrelink towards a number of clubs already in the comp. Nooooooooooooooo, there's no double standards there, there's no Victorian-centric thinking behind that at all, noooooooooooooo.

 

[papabear]

the clubs themselves maybe going broke, but they still provide a lot of money to the AFL through tv money / finals tickets etc etc.

 

[The_Wookie]

Well, yes, I nearly mentioned that to the poster concerned, because his (also my) club would be one that would have been under the microscope no doubt.

If it is such a business as he suggests, we wouldn't have 10 clubs in Victoria.

*Inflict strict business requirements on a Tasmanian club wanting to enter, act as Centrelink towards a number of clubs already in the comp. Nooooooooooooooo, there's no double standards there, there's no Victorian-centric thinking behind that at all, noooooooooooooo.

Sure. I mean never mind that those 10 victorian clubs WERE the business, predate the Commission, are the reason the Commission was even formed, and the reason that the league even exists.

 

[madmug]

Sure. I mean never mind that those 10 victorian clubs WERE the business, predate the Commission, are the reason the Commission was even formed, and the reason that the league even exists.

Oh so we are now all caring & supportive now. Gee I thought it was all business & bugger everything else.

A national league formed from scratch, with a much better national balance, would have been just, if not more successful.

 

[sherb]

Sure. I mean never mind that those 10 victorian clubs WERE the business, predate the Commission, are the reason the Commission was even formed, and the reason that the league even exists.

Sentimental piffle. What happened 30 years ago is irrelevant - tradition, contribution to the league, emotion, etc have no place in the modern day AFL.

It's all about dollars, crowds, debt levels, growth, expansion, memberships, tv ratings, etc - anything money related in fact. It's a business selling a product, it's no longer a game.

So it's not a matter of whether the Victorian clubs deserve to be there at all any more. If any club doesn't meet the all important financial criteria (see requirements for Tasmanian side for an indicator) - boot them. First to go should be any club which can't meet the all important $45 million turnover requirement.

This is a ruthless and completely emotionless business now remember. Not something that should be measured in meaningless and 20th century style intangibles (eg "passion" - how bloody neanderthal is that?).

 

[Kwality]

Sure. I mean never mind that those 10 victorian clubs WERE the business, predate the Commission, are the reason the Commission was even formed, and the reason that the league even exists.

So history gives entitlement? Like a seat in the House of Lords?

The VFL dealt with South Melbourne, the AFL dealt with Fitzroy, why are the current 10 x Vic clubs any different?

 

[The_Wookie]

Sentimental piffle. What happened 30 years ago is irrelevant - tradition, contribution to the league, emotion, etc have no place in the modern day AFL.

It's all about dollars, crowds, debt levels, growth, expansion, memberships, tv ratings, etc - anything money related in fact. It's a business selling a product, it's no longer a game.

It IS about all of those things - the majority of which in this country originate from Victoria. Thats a fact when it comes to ratings, crowds, members, sponsorship, gate takings, recruiting etc etc.

So it's not a matter of whether the Victorian clubs deserve to be there at all any more. If any club doesn't meet the all important financial criteria (see requirements for Tasmanian side for an indicator) - boot them. First to go should be any club which can't meet the all important $45 million turnover requirement.

This is a ruthless and completely emotionless business now remember. Not something that should be measured in meaningless and 20th century style intangibles (eg "passion" - how bloody neanderthal is that?).

Try sentimental facts - not least is the requirement for these clubs in victoria to vote themselves out of the competition they founded in 1897. And really? its not about Victorian clubs deserving anything - but you can base the entire Tasmanian argument on whether they DESERVE it? Guess we shut down the thread then for truly the hypocrisy is outstanding

Oh so we are now all caring & supportive now. Gee I thought it was all business & bugger everything else.

Its a fact. The Commission was created to look after the interests of the ALL the clubs they represent after they damn well bankrupted themselves in the 80s.

A national league formed from scratch, with a much better national balance, would have been just, if not more successful.

And yet it wasnt, and no amount of wishing has invented a time machine that Im aware of.

 

[The_Wookie]

So history gives entitlement? Like a seat in the House of Lords?

The VFL dealt with South Melbourne, the AFL dealt with Fitzroy, why are the current 10 x Vic clubs any different?

For a start the leagues financial situation is vastly different to what it was when South Melbourne were moved to Sydney under threat of member and player revolt. Fitzroy happened through vindicitive league policies no longer in effect, and with an adminstrator who laid down before the leagues onslaught. Victorian clubs are subject to artifical restraints on their stadium negotiations for a start, as well as your beloved FIXture.

 

[madmug]

Hypocrisy Wookie? Perhaps the AFL & some of its apologists should look in a mirror.

 

[Papa G]

Tasmania adds more to the AFL than the 9th and 10th Victorian team and the second Qld and NSW sides. 8,2,2,1,1,1 is right answer. AFL by the people, for the people.