Play Nice 2024 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings and other Industry thread

[threenewpadlocks]

Hes not wrong in so far as the practice of aggregating average viewers is concerned. This is a practice done by the NRL, AFL and Cricket Australia and others.

But AFL and Cricket Australia don't explicitly use it as a point of comparison across the sports, the NRL does.

And if you're defending the general practice of aggregating average viewers then yes, we cannot disagree, that it a method of coming up with a number that has some value an merit, in some contexts.

I would argue devoid of context of explaining why it's being aggregated this way, using terminology such as "viewers" rather than "full-games-watched-equivalent", or siimlar, would be better.

You know as well as I do thats not what hes claiming.

But he is claiming that one sport is "most watched" when compared to others.

Which is incorrect as pointed out, and even the article doesn't point out the flaws that are consistently pointed out in this thread. The different match lengths and the natural result of matches overlapping as a result leads to that.

Abdo is I suppose correct in saying that, 153.7 million times, the equivalent of a full match broadcast was viewed in Australia.

But that's also a meaningless statement. The AFL could turn around and state that a quarter of a match becomes a single match, a match lasts 20 minutes plus time on and then after a short break, scores reset to 0 and you play another match for the purposes of a TV broadcast, it is a new event, teams plays 92 matches in a year, and a person sitting down and watching 120 minutes of footy is suddenly "four viewers" and that therefore the AFL has a four-time increase in number of viewers and therefore is almost four times more watched than the NRL, and is the "most watched" sport in Australia.

The AFL could claim that using the identical underlying logic that Abdo is making here, even though we would all understand it to be preposterous and ridiculous.

 

[RedV3x]

You know as well as I do that's not what hes claiming.

Yes, but it's a conscious effort to suggest large number of viewers as against a large number of views.
Pedantic you say (in response)
Well, a person like Albo seizes on this as look at what we're doing for all these viewers
rather than look at what we're doing for some tragic people.

 

[RedV3x]

But he is claiming that one sport is "most watched" when compared to others.

is he claiming that one sport is "most watched in lounge rooms" when compared to others ?
is he claiming that one sport is "most watched multiple times in lounge rooms" when compared to others ?
is he claiming that one sport is "most watched " because they are not.attending the sports like other sports.

Obviously if you're claiming most watched, then you would have to add the extra 4 million attendees to AFL over NRL to the AFL's ratings.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

is he claiming that one sport is "most watched in lounge rooms" when compared to others ?
is he claiming that one sport is "most watched multiple times in lounge rooms" when compared to others ?
is he claiming that one sport is "most watched " because they are not.attending the sports like other sports.

Obviously if you're claiming most watched, then you would have to add the extra 4 million attendees to AFL over NRL to the AFL's ratings.

But even if it was that, it still wouldn't be correct.

Both because not every viewer elects to watch the entirety of the match, for both sport, when they begin watching it, so converting into full-length game equivalents (which is what average does) is highly dependent on the length of the broadcast.

Like I said the AFL could make each current quarter of a current four quarter game its own "game", the broadcasters would consider it four different games with four different averages, and they'd quadruple their number of viewers and the AFL could claim that "3.9 times as many people watch AFL as NRL" by the same logic, even though there's no meaningful difference in the physical actions of the people who are sitting down and watching AFL year on year.

It's basically mathematically comparing things that cannot be compared in this way given the different broadcast lengths.

 

[Bjo187]

‘The No. 1 sport in Australia’: PVL reveals record revenue for rugby league​

https://archive.md/9NeKj

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=DTWEB_MRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytelegraph.com.au%2Fsport%2Fnrl%2Fnrl-records-record-revenue-for-2024-outstrips-afl-in-viewer-numbers%2Fnews-story%2F3074cb8ddedcf952cb5796df6a8e18c7&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=LOW-Segment-1-SCORE

They're at it again ladies and gentleman. Fresh off an absolute disaster of a finals series where they were smashed on every metric, the propoganda machine is up in full motion.

Look at this for one of the most ridiculous articles ever written. 'Record revenue', then it's only 20 mill more than last year .

I'll give him one thing Peter, he has the Sydney media wrapped around his finger putting out absolute b.s like this. I'm actually thinking maybe he wrote the article himself and got some poor journo to put it out under his name lol.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I'm starting to wonder if the NRL instead of just propagandising is just fundamentally stupid to not realise the mathematics behind different broadcast lengths.

If a person flicked on the TV from 7pm to 10pm on a Friday, despite their viewing being identical, would count as 1.5 people for the NRL and 1.0 people for the AFL in aggregated averages. Even though in each case it is literally just one person. A person engaging and watching each sport for an identical period of time.

It really isn't that hard to understand.

I don't really have anything against the NRL, I watch it, I enjoy it, while it is not my favourite sport or one I grew up with, I can sit down and both enjoy a broadcast and see sporting merit in both the field of play and the wider administration of the game.

It is just simply incorrect in any common sense understanding of how engaging with sports actually work. People who watch sports typically watch a portion of an entire match broadcast, a portion of games over the weekend, and watch games in a portion of all weekends over summer. That person is still just one person that is engaging with the sport.

We know that there's about 12 million people in Australia who engage with the AFL in the country who on average watch about 12 full-length equivalent games each, which across a 2 hour, 40 Min hour broadcast is about 32 hours a season.

We know there's about 10 million people in Australia who engage in NRL, who on average watch about 15 full-length equivalent games a season, which in a 2 hour broadcast is 30 hours a season.

AFL is actually a slightly more popular sport on terms of engagement outside of it being a TV product, and that's probably for not other reason than Perth timezone reasons diminishing the transition of general AFL interest into actual TV viewership (I can imagine a Perth footy fan checking the score on their phone as they're having work drinks in the office at 5.45pm before they can get home and actually watch the game).

Though "full game equivalents" is such an clunky way of thinking about it. Across both codes an average person would have engaged with double the amount of games on average but watched an average of half the match's broadcast, still netting out to the same 32/30 hours.

Aggregating averages in the way that Abdo and V'Landys is is effectively doing the mathematical equivalent of grabbing a group of 10 people, putting them in 5 groups of 2, and claiming that that's more total people than the AFL, who have 12 people distributed in 4 groups of 3, because 5 is a bigger number than 4.

 

[Macca180]

‘The No. 1 sport in Australia’: PVL reveals record revenue for rugby league​

Is he deluded or is he a genius troll?

 

[Giant YoYo]

‘The No. 1 sport in Australia’: PVL reveals record revenue for rugby league​

Would love to revisit these figures if the AFL removes overlap of games with more Thursday night games. Not that they will for the entire season duration but would be interesting to see.

“In my mind, we are the No. 1 sport in Australia, but we won’t stop, we’re still growing.”

I've noticed he says this a lot. With enough repetition you know that it's for the masses in those markets to believe it.

A good chunk of the strategy seems to be to be absolutely saturate the airwaves with league speak with how big and great it is. Seems to be doing something for them, I'll give 'em that.

 

[Demon in Hell]

With so much money he won't need Albo's $600m (or should I say our $600m) to start up a new club in PNG.

He can pay for it himself.

 

[Bjo187]

I'm starting to wonder if the NRL instead of just propagandising is just fundamentally stupid to not realise the mathematics behind different broadcast lengths.

If a person flicked on the TV from 7pm to 10pm on a Friday, despite their viewing being identical, would count as 1.5 people for the NRL and 1.0 people for the AFL in aggregated averages. Even though in each case it is literally just one person. A person engaging and watching each sport for an identical period of time.

It really isn't that hard to understand.

I don't really have anything against the NRL, I watch it, I enjoy it, while it is not my favourite sport or one I grew up with, I can sit down and both enjoy a broadcast and see sporting merit in both the field of play and the wider administration of the game.

It is just simply incorrect in any common sense understanding of how engaging with sports actually work. People who watch sports typically watch a portion of an entire match broadcast, a portion of games over the weekend, and watch games in a portion of all weekends over summer. That person is still just one person that is engaging with the sport.

We know that there's about 12 million people in Australia who engage with the AFL in the country who on average watch about 12 full-length equivalent games each, which across a 2 hour, 40 Min hour broadcast is about 32 hours a season.

We know there's about 10 million people in Australia who engage in NRL, who on average watch about 15 full-length equivalent games a season, which in a 2 hour broadcast is 30 hours a season.

AFL is actually a slightly more popular sport on terms of engagement outside of it being a TV product, and that's probably for not other reason than Perth timezone reasons diminishing the transition of general AFL interest into actual TV viewership (I can imagine a Perth footy fan checking the score on their phone as they're having work drinks in the office at 5.45pm before they can get home and actually watch the game).

Though "full game equivalents" is such an clunky way of thinking about it. Across both codes an average person would have engaged with double the amount of games on average but watched an average of half the match's broadcast, still netting out to the same 32/30 hours.

Aggregating averages in the way that Abdo and V'Landys is is effectively doing the mathematical equivalent of grabbing a group of 10 people, putting them in 5 groups of 2, and claiming that that's more total people than the AFL, who have 12 people distributed in 4 groups of 3, because 5 is a bigger number than 4.

No it's intentional lying imo. The reason being, they would well know because the broadcasters would tell them what metrics they look at and why the afl always gets paid more.

The one thing is though, you set yourself up for criticism when your tv rights money comes out at about 25 percent less than the afl's, because that's the true reflection of individual viewers in each sport. They are making themselves look incompetent for not getting a deal that matches their claim of 'Australia's number 1 tv sport'.

You've wound up your nuffie fans and media to think they are the number 1 tv sport, so why aren't we getting the most money? This happened a few years ago when the afl got a much bigger deal, v'landy's was coming up with all types of excuses like he was dudded by fox, they helped tv survive during that time by taking less, they have things up their sleeve for next time etc.

They must simply think the b.s propaganda of portraying they are more popular than they actually are, is more valuable than the heat they'll cop for a few weeks.

 

[Angus Young]

I know I´m not sprooking official data and nothing but observation.

But you just have to look a the amount of packed pubs, sold out pubs with reservations, line ups early in the morning, football clubs, outdoor spaces with big screens, large gatherings at houses, bbqs full of people watching the AFL Grand Final. Now I´m not sure how this is even recorded for ratings.

But my point is if you think this happens to the same extent for NRL games and finals around the country you are kidding yourself.

Just that alone tells me which game is more popular. Don´t even have to get into crowds and memberships etc

 

[Angus Young]

Is he deluded or is he a genius troll?

He has been great for the NRL. He gets people talking. Again figures will tell you the positive impact he has had on Rugby League.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

He has been great for the NRL. He gets people talking. Again figures will tell you the positive impact he has had on Rugby League.

I mean sure but the AFL has had similar percentage growth in revenue as the NRL without the need to have a similarly loud CEO.

I'm not really sure that the fact that he's loud, and the fact that NRL is growing, is related to each other. NRL was growing at a roughly similar rate before he arrived on the scene.

He pulled the trigger on a second Brisbane team, I suppose, which is something that should have been obvious to everyone involved but had to work through the ownership of Broncos. That's probably fair enough.

 

[RedV3x]

No it's intentional lying imo.

I would suggest that it's in connection with the PNG's bid.
Look, we cannot deny Australia's most-watched football (albeit aggregated couch potatoes) $ 600 million.of taxpayers money.
Look again, if NRL is Australia's most-watched football (albeit aggregated couch potatoes) then the NRL doesn't need $ 600 million.of taxpayers money..

 

[Foreign Legion]

I would suggest that it's in connection with the PNG's bid.
Look, we cannot deny Australia's most-watched football (albeit aggregated couch potatoes) $ 600 million.of taxpayers money.
Look again, if NRL is Australia's most-watched football (albeit aggregated couch potatoes) then the NRL doesn't need $ 600 million.of taxpayers money..

Dont forget half of that money is going to existing clubs. Why should taxpayers fund them? Rugby in all forms is slowly dying - Union first then League.

The thing nobody mentions is that League is all Pacific Islanders now - sort of cuts down the playing lists a bit at junior level.

 

[RedV3x]

The thing nobody mentions is that League is all Pacific Islanders now - sort of cuts down the playing lists a bit at junior level.

I mentioned it, but it seems it's not a problem with NRL fans on BF, only juniors.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The one thing is though, you set yourself up for criticism when your tv rights money comes out at about 25 percent less than the afl's, because that's the true reflection of individual viewers in each sport. They are making themselves look incompetent for not getting a deal that matches their claim of 'Australia's number 1 tv sport'.

You've wound up your nuffie fans and media to think they are the number 1 tv sport, so why aren't we getting the most money? This happened a few years ago when the afl got a much bigger deal, v'landy's was coming up with all types of excuses like he was dudded by fox, they helped tv survive during that time by taking less, they have things up their sleeve for next time etc.

It is interesting though that the argument that the AFL simply must get more money because they can chuck in an advertisement between each goal isn't the entire explanation. It's only just a partial one, especially as most of the money flow is through Kayo/Fox and subscriptions as well anyway

 

[RedV3x]

It is interesting though that the argument that the AFL simply must get more money because they can chuck in an advertisement between each goal isn't the entire explanation.

it is my contention that AFL is watched more intently because of the lower predictability - it can literally be the bounce of the ball. Possession is alternated in rugby, making it much more predictable and more prone to being "background accompliment".

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[The_Wookie]

Monday, 14 October 2024

Bathurst 1000 accelerates on Seven and 7plus Sport
Iconic Supercars round reaches 4.9 million

Australia’s biggest motorsport event, the Supercars Championship Repco Bathurst 1000 from Mount Panorama, roared across the screens of Seven over the weekend, reaching 4.9 million on Seven and 7plus Sport.

Yesterday’s race, which saw Brodie Kostecki and Todd Hazelwood from Erebus Motorsport win for the first time, alone reached 3.4 million people, with an average total TV audience of 1.22 million – up 3% on the 2023 race. The audience just on 7plus Sport was 102,000, up 26% on 2023.

The thrilling action from Mount Panorama dominated its timeslot in total people, 25 to 54s and 16 to 39s.

Across the Bathurst 1000 weekend, over 110 million minutes of action was streamed on 7plus Sport, with 7plus scoring a 55% commercial share of BVOD yesterday.

Seven’s coverage of the Bathurst 1000 was proudly presented by Repco, Shannons, BP, Harvey Norman, Macca's, ALDI, Optus and The National Bowel Cancer Screening Program.

Seven Network Executive Producer, Motorsport, Angela Rampal, said: “The Repco Bathurst 1000 is arguably the biggest weekend on Australia’s sporting calendar, and we are thrilled to have delivered another epic broadcast of the great race to viewers across the nation.

“This year's race had everything – an epic finish, heart-stopping moments and deserved first-time Bathurst 1000 winners in Brodie Kostecki and Todd Hazelwood. This year’s race kept fans on the edge of their seats, making for an incredible 26 hours of live broadcasting.

“Paired with the expertise of Seven's incomparable Supercars broadcast team, led by Mel McLaughlin, Mark Beretta, Chris Stubbs, Emma Freedman, Jack Perkins and Molly Taylor, we could not have asked for a better spectacle across the screens of Seven and 7plus Sport,” she said.

Seven Network National Television Sales Director, Katie Finney, said: “The Bathurst 1000 is deeply ingrained in Australian culture, once again providing brands with an unparalleled platform on Seven and 7plus to engage high-value audiences on a massive scale across the entire 26 hours of live broadcast.”
The Supercars action on Seven and 7plus Sport continues on 26 and 27 October with the Boost Mobile Gold Coast 500, with the 2024 Championship wrapping up on 16 and 17 November with the VAILO Adelaide 500.

Supercars Championship Bathurst 1000 on Seven:

· Bathurst 1000 Race: National reach 3.4 million, national audience 1.22 million.
· Day Two Top 10 Shootout: National reach 1.32 million, national audience 674,000.
· Day Two Supports: National reach 1.31 million, national audience 461,000.
· Day Three Supports/Warm Up: National reach 1.91 million, national audience 513,000.
· Day Two Practice: National reach 1.02 million, national audience 319,000.
· Day One Qualifying: National reach 892,000, national audience 250,000.
· Day One Supports: National reach 556,000, national audience 212,000.

 

[The_Wookie]

Date	Channel	Primary Description	BVOD Audience	BVOD Reach
12/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS BATHURST 1000: T10 S/OUT	197,000	240,000
11/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS BATHURST 1000: QUAL	119,000	157,000
6/10/2024	Fox League	LIVE: NRLW: GRAND FINAL SYD V CRO	106,000	211,000
12/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: DUNLOP SERIES: RACE 2	105,000	154,000
12/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS BATHURST SUPPORTS	90,000	162,000
12/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS BATHURST SUPPORTS	81,000	95,000
12/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS BATHURST SUPPORTS	81,000	95,000
6/10/2024	Fox Sports 506	LIVE: MOTORSPORT: MOTOGP: JAPAN RACE	65,000	81,000

 

[The_Wookie]

Weekend Attendance
#AFLW
Blues/Dogs 1,320 at Ikon park
Power/Saints 2,486 at Alberton Oval
Hawks/Giants 2,106 at Kinetic Stadium
Eagles/Dockers 6,047 at Sullivan Logistics Stadium
Tigers/Dees 2,026 at Casey Fields

#ALM
Mariners/Victory 6,953 at Industree Grp Stadium
Auckland/Roar 24,492 at Go Media Stadium
Jets/City 8,032 at McDonald Jones
Wanderers/SFC 27,496 at Commbank Stadium

#Horseracing
The Everest 49,117 at Randwick
Caulfield "nearly 25,000"

#NBL
Bullets/Breakers 4,391 at the BEC
Jackjumpers/Kings 3,255 at the Silverdome
Breakers/Wildcats 5,822 at Spark Arena
Taipans/Hawks 4,362 at the CCC

#PacificChampionships
Kangaroos/Tonga & Jillaroos/PNG 33,196 at Suncorp Stadium
Tonga/Fetu Samoa (W) 3,271 at HFC Bank Stadium
Fiji/PNG 7,581 at HFC Bank Stadium

 

[Gizmo]

Rank	Description	Network	Reach	Average	BVOD
29	FOOTBALL: ISUZU UTE A-LEAGUE	10	464,000	103,000	9,000

Decent ratings for the A-League, considering what they have been getting the past few years.

 

[Rob]

Rank	Description	Network	Reach	Average	BVOD
29	FOOTBALL: ISUZU UTE A-LEAGUE	10	464,000	103,000	9,000

Decent ratings for the A-League, considering what they have been getting the past few years.

Seems to be a horrendously poor reach: average ratio. Every viewer has an average watch time of roughly 25 minutes.
I wonder what the average was for the last 3/4 of the telecast.

 

[The_Wookie]

Streaming 19/10-25/10

Primary Description	BVOD Audience	BVOD Reach
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: F1: UNITED STATES RACE	196,000	297,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: F1: UNITED STATES QUALIFYING	144,000	233,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: F1: UNITED STATES SPRINT RACE	129,000	194,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: MOTOGP: AUSTRALIA RACE	120,000	143,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS GOLD COAST 500: RACE 21	104,000	170,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS GOLD COAST 500: SHOOTOUT	83,000	125,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS GOLD COAST 500: QUAL.	75,000	98,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: MOTOGP: THE GRID	67,000	135,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS PODIUM: GOLD COAST R21	67,000	87,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS GOLD COAST SUPPORTS	59,000	91,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: SUPERCARS GOLD COAST SUPPORTS	59,000	102,000
LIVE: PACIFIC C'SHIPS: FIJ V CI	58,000	140,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: F1: USA PIT LANE QUALIFYING	54,000	204,000
LIVE: NBA: LAKERS V TIMBERWOLVES	52,000	139,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: F1: CHEQUERED FLAG	51,000	171,000
LIVE: MOTORSPORT: F1: MEXICO PRACTICE 2	49,000	118,000
LIVE: NETBALL: CONSTELLATION CUP GAME 1	46,000	84,000

FTA Consolidated

Description	Total TV National Average Audience	Total TV National Reach
SEVEN’S HORSE RACING 2024	635,000	1,365,000
SEVEN’S HORSE RACING 2024-THE EVEREST	456,000	524,000
PACIFIC CHAMPIONSHIPS – FIJI V PNG KUMULS	260,000	872,000