AFL seeks compensation for World Cup disruption

[mickctiger]

The World Cup is the biggest and most popular sporting event in the world. Substantially more popular than the Olympics. Yes, matches will be sold out there.

Remember how difficult tickets were to get for Olympic events? Multiply that by a factor of 2 or higher, and you'll get the kind of rush there will be on WC tickets...

yes yes you keep telling us that the World Cup is the"biggest thing since sliced bread" but c'mon how stupid do you really think we are ? if two of the less apealling teams are playing and the weather shocking (were talking about a southern winter after all) you are not going to fill the G. Just get some perspective. Its not being anti-soccer, just realistic. I'm sure that Australia will win the right to host the World cup. I'm also sure that FIFA are not as inlfexible with their "rules" as some of you soccer fanatics think. FIFA is a business after all, they will do whats best for their business. As much as holding a World Cup in Australia is good for business, holding a World Cup during the depths of the Australian winter is not that good for business.

Delaying the Tournament for a month or so, for the one time its in Australia, is fantastic business for FIFA. (oh yeah, and everyones happy- afl and nrl seasons minimally disrupted)

 

[mickctiger]

They must like winter. Since South Africa is in the southern Hemisphere as well, and so is also in winter. And then you count in the fact that football/soccer is a mostly winter sport in Europe, which is much colder than poor old Melbourne.

the winters in SA are milder than here. Also one of the reasons for playing the world cup in the northern summer is to show case the game in the best possible conditions.
12 degrees and pissing down rain, or 20 and fine if you wait six weeks, you choose

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

if two of the less apealling teams are playing and the weather shocking (were talking about a southern winter after all) you are not going to fill the G.

Yet an under-23s game featuring Cameroon and Spain sold out Stadium Australia (as it was at the time) with 110,000 in attendance.

Not only will all matches at the 'G be sold out, they will be sold out months in advance - as was invariably the case with previous World Cups in other parts of the world.

And I think you're exaggerating the likely weather conditions a bit- how often has Melbourne had maximum temps of 12 degrees with that kind of frequency in recent memory?

I used to live down there when I was younger... and I think it's safe to say that Greenhouse has pushed the averages up a fair bit since then...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yet an under-23s game featuring Cameroon and Spain sold out Stadium Australia (as it was at the time) with 110,000 in attendance.

Not only will all matches at the 'G be sold out, they will be sold out months in advance - as was invariably the case with previous World Cups in other parts of the world.

And I think you're exaggerating the likely weather conditions pretty severely- how often has Melbourne had maximum temps of 12 degrees with any particular frequency in recent memory?

I don't think the same group of soccer starved diehards will be able to attend every world cup game.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I don't think the same group of soccer starved diehards will be able to attend every world cup game.

Fortunately, what with Association Football, in reality, being the second-most popular code of football here, the third-most popular sport in Australia as a whole, and the WC being the most significant sporting event Australia may ever host, I don't think we'll be spreading ourselves too thinly in that regard

 

[mickctiger]

Yet an under-23s game featuring Cameroon and Spain sold out Stadium Australia (as it was at the time) with 110,000 in attendance.

the "Olympics" might have had something to do with it, when was that match held? if memory serves me correct, the soccer started a few days before the Olympics officially started, so it could have been the one of the first matches played. Also werent the Soccer games some of the most accessible events of the Olympics ? wouldnt that alone explain the crowd?

Not only will all matches at the 'G be sold out, they will be sold out months in advance - as was invariably the case with previous World Cups in other parts of the world.

How can you guarantee this ? getting 100,000 to see a England v Germany is one thing, getting a similar crowd to see a Bulgeria V Bolivia is something completely different

And I think you're exaggerating the likely weather conditions a bit-

oh really ?

how often has Melbourne had maximum temps of 12 degrees with that kind of frequency in recent memory?

quite a few this year FWIW

I used to live down there when I was younger.

used tobeing the operative phrase

.. and I think it's safe to say that Greenhouse has pushed the averages up a fair bit since then...

not by as much as you think

now don't get me wrong, this is not being anti-soccer, just realistic. If they do hold it here, they will not hold it in the depths of our winter. That makes no commercial sense

 

[Hollow Knight]

Quite so - some people (apparently TBD is one) really do live in their own bubble most of the time, it seems...

Stupid comment. Couldn't give a shit about soccer, nothing more, nothing less.

Like all political issues, self-interest lies at the heart of everything. The hilarious things is how the soccer fans can't just say "I like soccer, therefore I want the World Cup".

Instead, they go on the moral/righteous campaign saying that anyone who doesn't want the World Cup is either selfish, or too stupid to understand the beauty and poetry of the world game (or both). I bet if Fox Sports decided not to show the thrilling Premier League nil-all draw between Puddingpuddle FC and Sausageberry United in deference to the International Sandcastle Building Championships that the soccer types would be fit-to-be-tied.

The AFL is a business in a competitive sports entertainment market. The suggestion that it should simply roll over for a competitor in the same market without getting every cent of compensation to which it is entitled is just ridiculous.

If the AFL decides that the benefits of the world cup (new stadiums for example) justifies stepping aside, then so be it. But they have every right to be a complete pain-in-the-ass about it and leverage every cent and attain every concession that they are entitled to (and more).

 

[mickctiger]

Instead, they go on the moral/righteous campaign saying that anyone who doesn't want the World Cup is either selfish, or too stupid to understand the beauty and poetry of the world game (or both).

or anybody who doesn't want to see a clash of events, for that matter

 

[McCrann]

I'm pretty early on in my law degree...but wondering whether there would be potential Trade Practices consequences for the AFL if they decided to restrict the World Cup.

Basically their contracts with the G deny anyone else from using the ground during the months they use it....and in this situation it is having a substantial lessening of competition effect because World Soccer would not get access to the MCG and it is denying a class of persons.

Sounds like an Exclusive Dealing type situation. When the Rugby split, and the ARL tried to lock in their players, this was held an anti-competitive agreement.

As I said, I aint no expert on it yet, but just the skeleton of it looks like it could have Trade Practices consequences.

AFL is basically acting as a monopoly in Australia (well Vic, SA and Perth atleast)

Oh my goodness - you are pretty thick aren't you.

AFL denies anyone else from using the ground during their season? Hardly think so - when do you think the Australia v Greece game at the G was played?

Smack bang in the middle of an AFL Season - At the G!

When do you think various Bledisloe Cup matches have been played, including some at the G.

Hmm.

Smack bang in the middle of the AFL Season!

To say the AFL denies use of the ground to other sports during their season is CRAZY CRAZY CRAP basically. They don't - plenty of other sports get played their during an AFL season (Mainly Soccer and Rugby clearly).

In fact, there is no exclusive lockout by the AFL - but actually - that is exactly what FIFA is advocating for 6-8-10 weeks or so! Talk about mounting an argument based on misread hypocrisy!

You want to force a code to be denied access to a ground because they play a lot of matches on that ground and basically fund the upkeep of the MCG?

AFL is acting as a monopoly in Australia!!!

Are you serious? How many games of AFL take place at Suncorp Stadium? Sydney Football Stadium? New Swan St. Bubble Stadium in future? or ANZ Stadium in Sydney?

Only a handful - at ANZ of course! What a load of tosh you speak sir.

 

[McCrann]

lol because you can't run any other competitions during the World Cup in the host cities. It's against FIFA's rules. When the world cup is on, nothing else can be.


FIFA is saying, if you want the world cup, then you abide by our rules. And the 8 or so other countries that are vying for the Cup will abide by their rules.If we want it, so much we.

Heard of Major League Baseball? MLB? They played on during World Cup 1994. Hell, they even play for something called the World Series to become World Champs!

Would have thought that stacks up pretty well against the lil old AFL!

 

[McCrann]

Soccer would only restrict for 10 weeks. You'd need a longer duration. AFL would be restricting the tournament from happening altogether.

Ah, no - that is FIFA restricting itself.

AFL has never said anything about not being able to play World Cup matches midweek during an AFL season have they.

It is FIFA imposing its own restrictions that is the problem - the AFL already have the contracts in place - with MCG and Etihad at least.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Stupid comment. Couldn't give a shit about soccer, nothing more, nothing less.

Like all political issues, self-interest lies at the heart of everything. The hilarious things is how the soccer fans can't just say "I like soccer, therefore I want the World Cup".

Instead, they go on the moral/righteous campaign saying that anyone who doesn't want the World Cup is either selfish, or too stupid to understand the beauty and poetry of the world game (or both). I bet if Fox Sports decided not to show the thrilling Premier League nil-all draw between Puddingpuddle FC and Sausageberry United in deference to the International Sandcastle Building Championships that the soccer types would be fit-to-be-tied.

The AFL is a business in a competitive sports entertainment market. The suggestion that it should simply roll over for a competitor in the same market without getting every cent of compensation to which it is entitled is just ridiculous.

If the AFL decides that the benefits of the world cup (new stadiums for example) justifies stepping aside, then so be it. But they have every right to be a complete pain-in-the-ass about it and leverage every cent and attain every concession that they are entitled to (and more).

Then there is the non-moral argument, " the world cup is really really really big, bigger than a beer add, it is so big that you will be trampled underfoot and the government will become a nazi regime so that they can force noncomplying entities to bend over and take it up the khyber, and they will be priveleged to be able to take it up the khyber by someone as big as Fifa "

Personally I think the AFL should seek appropriate compensation for standing down during the season and for foregoing any contracted rights to stadiums. I don't think they should accept stadium upgrades as part of that compensation, since there are other negative ( to AFL ) aspects that wouldn't be addressed in the above compensation.
They should do it because their job is to put AFL above all other sports and because they can.

 

[mickctiger]

if there was any other corporate entity that was forced to cease trading, while one of its competitors could hold some sort of "special event" with the backing of the authorities at the time, then that corporate entity would indeed be entity would be entitled to recover lost revenue

 

[mickctiger]

but this is all moot. Should the World Cup be staged here, it will be staged at a time of maximum commercial benefit. As far FIFA is concerned, that would not be the depths of an Australian Winter

 

[mustapha]

gee, a top flight international soccer match played in the grey drizzle of a southern australian winter is going to be a good look isnt it ?
especially when the stands appear only half full
I'm sure FIFA will love that look

So you believe that people who have payed thousands of dollars for tickets, flights, accomodation etc many months prior to the world cup commencing are going to stay in their hotel room if it rains?

 

[sherb]

So you believe that people who have payed thousands of dollars for tickets, flights, accomodation etc many months prior to the world cup commencing are going to stay in their hotel room if it rains?

Not an issue.

FIFA will require a written guarantee of fine weather during the competition as part of our bid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

but this is all moot. Should the World Cup be staged here, it will be staged at a time of maximum commercial benefit. As far FIFA is concerned, that would not be the depths of an Australian Winter

It would be unprecedented and unlikely.
A winter World cup would not.

It would possibly affect the attendances but I expect that FIFA make most of their money through TV rights.

People who have paid for tickets /accomodation etc would not stay in their hotel room, but people may think twice about taking leaving their Summer location to take a winter vacation somewhere cold and miserable.

 

[Hoops]

Not an issue.

FIFA will require a written guarantee of fine weather during the competition as part of our bid.

and for those farmers who need rain, FIFA >>>>> mother nature.
Pft, the world cup makes feeding the people look like a sunday picnic

IT'S THAT BIG

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In the beginning God created FIFA.
It was so big he put the universe in it.

 

[3kzisfootball]

I have to respond on the argument that winter is a bad time for the FIFA world cup.

• Soccer is primarily a winter sport all over the world. Fans in Europe are used to watch the game in the open with temperatures below 0. A Melbourne winter is nothing in comparison.
• It is recognised (and it is something that the Australian bid has also highlighted) that a winter's world cup is much better for players and the game as a whole. As I stated before many players play in cold conditions (including South America where they play during in 'our winter' such as June/August with their 'Apertura and Clausura' system). Therefore the game is faster and less draining.
• It may be cold in Melbourne, but the World Cup is not going to be played only there. I am sure that Brisbane and Perth can offer quite mild conditions for soccer.

 

[loki04]

but im sure the AFL will be the 1st Oz sporting governing body to campaign that the playing arena in new stadia in Adelaide and Perth be built to AFL specifications.

the AFL will be out to take as much as it can..........but im sure they realise that the upside to th world cup for the AFL re stadia and infrastructure will be huge for the following 30 years at the least........and it'll be all govt funded. If the AFL try to squeeze for compo, then the fed govt might just tell the AFL to GAGF and build rectangulars instead.

Oh noes the rectangulars to host sports that will see 5 -10k fans show up in a 50-60k stadium, good long term buisness sense that...

Who gives a fk how many other countries its the #1 sport in, fact is it's a long way off our countries most loved sport.
If they want to have it here (ie Australian Soccer organisation) then they better hope FIFA accepts that we will not have our game treated as a backwater pissant comp in OUR own country.

What i dont understand is why they need the use of all the AFL grounds and not use the current soccer grounds (Hindmarsh in Adel ect) and perhaps the MCG and ANZ in melb syd.
Leaving Aimee, TD, Subi, Gabba, Launceston, Carrara and SCG for the AFL season to continue to run.

The whole no other code is allowed thing is stupid and last i checked the NFL didn't stop its season for it.

 

[mickctiger]

and for those farmers who need rain, FIFA >>>>> mother nature.
Pft, the world cup makes feeding the people look like a sunday picnic

IT'S THAT BIG

yep, so is my d@#k, doesn't mean I waive it everywhere

 

[mickctiger]

So you believe that people who have payed thousands of dollars for tickets, flights, accomodation etc many months prior to the world cup commencing are going to stay in their hotel room if it rains?

no I think my post was highlighting that having a soccer match played in shocking conditions, at the MCG, between two of the less popular soccer teams, infront of what will appear as a half-full crowd, will not be a good look for FIFA in their show-case event.

do you have a comprehension problem ?

 

[mickctiger]

Not an issue.

FIFA will require a written guarantee of fine weather during the competition as part of our bid.

which means that if is held here it will not be held during the worst of our winter.
What I cannot understand is why is that such a bad thing for all the Soccer fans. I would have thought that having the World Cup here would have been good enough, even if it was staged during the spring say (for arguments sake) but no, nothing less than the complete shut-down of both the football and rugby seasons will do for some people.

and they call us the narrow-minded and insular bogans

 

[mustapha]

no I think my post was highlighting that having a soccer match played in shocking conditions, at the MCG, between two of the less popular soccer teams, infront of what will appear as a half-full crowd, will not be a good look for FIFA in their show-case event.

do you have a comprehension problem ?

Why do you assume that there will be a half full crowd when most of the crowd would have pre-purchased expensive tickets?

You keep going on and on about Fifa moving it's world cup because of supposed shocking conditions in Melbourne (tsunamis? blizzards? ice age?) but it has been highlighted regularly throughout this thread that it is played in June to avoid the domestic seasons of almost every football competition in the world. Moving the date is not an option. If we win the rights to host the World Cup it will be played in June. If we can't host it in June we won't host it at all.