Well they always had Hale up there too as a genuine tall forward(second ruck) so it was actually 4 of them.
AFL Team of the 21st Century (Rolling)
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You have to toggle "general" stats on to see coaches votes and then choose a year the player was still playing (only goes back to 2012 but it will then show the players votes back to 2006) - then select the player you are looking for.
I guess the question to address RUNVS concerns are: if you replaced Gunston or Roughead with Lloyd or Riewoldt in their best seasons, would that forward line have worked?
I suspect it may have.
I remember the 2020 State of Origin match and how it was actually the smaller forwards who did the damage that night.
Small/medium Forwards
Papley - 5 goals
Greene - 4 goals
C.Cameron - 3 goals
Breust - 2 goals
Tall Forwards
Riewoldt - 2 goals
J.Cameron - 1 goal
Lynch - 1 goal
Hawkins - 0 goals
People underestimate the value of the smaller players, especially in bigger games.
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You have to toggle "general" stats on to see coaches votes and then choose a year the player was still playing (only goes back to 2012 but it will then show the players votes back to 2006) - then select the player you are looking for.
Thanks so much
My_Username
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Injuries is why he doesn't make the team.
Sure, he was awesome when fit, but part of being a top player is getting on the ground reliably.
The best player the game has seen is only 'above average' if he will only be playing half the games (randomly determined). Even more so if it takes him a couple to get back to speed after a break.
So all three played in the same team in 2012 and 2013
2012
Franklin - 3.4
Roughhead - 1.8
Gunston - 2.0
Hale - 1.0
2013
Franklin - 1.8
Roughead - 2.9
Gunston - 2.0
Hale - 0.8
So that is quite good, but you look at Roughead and Buddy basically swapping stats. Roughead spent far more time in the ruck in 2012, averaging 400% more hitouts than he did in 2013, and from memory Buddy spent a lot more time up the field in 2013 than he did 2012, so even in those two years Clarkson seemed to avoid having both Buddy and Roughead in the same forward line too much.
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Yeah I get that but I come from the view that if we are picking a “best of” team it would be for a hypothetical match in which everybody is fully fit and in their prime with some team balance. This is why I’d pick Nic Nat over somebody like Pendlebury who let’s face it is primarily being considered for his longevity rather than his prime.
My_Username
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I see your point, but we're not looking at these players based on their best few games. We're looking at quality over a prolonged period, so being injury prone is a relevant factor.
Rustin Cohle
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Nicnat in the team of the 21st century. Now I've heard it all.
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Well, since I would probably have room for only one ruck, I tend to agree with you. But if I was having two, my second would be Nic Nat. He could control and turn a game like no other ruckman this century. He’s exactly the kind of impact player you’d want in a second ruck.
The rest of the time he is good for not much though. He’s resting forward or just coming on for 30 percent game time to give the ruck a rest? I’d rather Swap even a Goodes in there and have the versatility to put him in other positions as well. I’m being biased and a lot won’t like it but I’d rather have Bilcavs in the team as well! And for pure ruckwork I’d put Sandilands in ahead of him as well. One is lucky to be a top 5 of this century the other (Gawn) top 5 all time.
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Why is Gawn top 5 all time? Apart from being good a for while I don’t see it. Was good in 2021 but other than that meh. Both 2018/19 versions of Grundy and Nic Nat were better imo. They dominated games in a way Gawn hasn’t.
6 all australians, premiership captain. 2018 he was voted player of the year coaches association. Nic Nat 18- played 15 games averaged 10 possesions and 4.5 clearances, 2019 he played 5 games....?
Gawn also finished 4th in the Brownlow 2018 and top 10 2019.
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Yes when you play less games and mostly rusty coming back from injuries not winning awards tends to follow.
I was referring to Grundy in 2019 where he got picked on the field in the AA team over Gawn who was in the bench.
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Gawn is not top 5 of all time.
You said both versions…?
He has to be very close, I still rate Cox ahead of him and he would be closing in if not past Madden, Polly Farmer and John Nicholls only other contenders for the position I can think of.
Frewy
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Yep it's Cox, Gawn and daylight in the modern era, personally I have Gawn just ahead on achievements. An interesting side note is that Cox played the first half of his career before the 2005 ruck rule change to 10m and won all of his AA post that change.
As far as I am concerned that change had the largest effect on modern football in the last 25 years. The impact on centre bounce tactics and congestion has been game changing for the worst except for saving rucks from knee and leg injuries.
Much like the shirtfront it had had to go and there was just no good way to introduce that amount of distance and randomness in the centre bounce naturally, so the game evolves.
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Misspoke 2018 Nic Nat and 2019 Grundy.
Maybe because their teams accomplished more than the Dees I didn’t take notice of Gawn but I’m pretty sure Grundy was considered better than Gawn throughout this period. Hence the massive deal he got.
Then they played in the same team and one played vfl.
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Grundy 2023 is not Grundy 2019 mate cmon.
And it’s not really a flex when Dees keep going out in straight set exits. Cmon big Maxy what are you doing?
Engimal v3
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Really? I'd have him comfortably behind Cox, Sandilands, Goldstein and Gawn in this century alone.
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I get that if you are considering body of work. But Nic Nat to me anyway has always been more intimidating than all of them besides Maybe Cox. Which is why I had them both in my team.
No fault of Max his finals series was very good.
