News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[jdstorm]

If your going to keep the current system (and you shouldn’t, it should be all academies

 

[Astro35]

Make the first round a pure draft. No PP, no F/S, no academy, no discounts. Let the AFL manipulation begin in the second round.

 

[bzparkes]

Just make it so the bottom 4's second round draft pick isn't affected by bids and always stay at their normal order.

That'd be a great start...

 

[bigm386]

Ideally, I would be happy to scrap all academies father sons etc. But that isn't reality and I can accept that with the game having to grow in the northern states.

I think the system as it stands is ridiculous where you can acquire multiple first round picks for junk 'points' picks.

I think the system needs to reflect market, if you have 3 first round academy prospects/father sons. That club needs to acquire 3 first round picks as a starting point to bid on those players. If its a pick one and you have pick 9 I can cop that and your other picks slide as a result.

A situation like Logan McDonald going with the Swans genuine pick and an academy player going with the next pick cannot continue.

Appreciate clubs who will need to trade in picks will likely cost a premium, but is that really a bad thing? It means only academy/father sons who are genuinely worth the effort will be taken in that system otherwise they are players developed for the other clubs.

 

[sydney_gws]

Ideally, I would be happy to scrap all academies father sons etc. But that isn't reality and I can accept that with the game having to grow in the northern states.

I think the system as it stands is ridiculous where you can acquire multiple first round picks for junk 'points' picks.

I think the system needs to reflect market, if you have 3 first round academy prospects/father sons. That club needs to acquire 3 first round picks as a starting point to bid on those players. If its a pick one and you have pick 9 I can cop that and your other picks slide as a result.

A situation like Logan McDonald going with the Swans genuine pick and an academy player going with the next pick cannot continue.

Appreciate clubs who will need to trade in picks will likely cost a premium, but is that really a bad thing? It means only academy/father sons who are genuinely worth the effort will be taken in that system otherwise they are players developed for the other clubs.

Adjusting the points curve, limiting to 2 picks solves 99% of the problems.
At the moment you probably could match a bid at 1 with pick 25 ( trade it for 32,33 then those picks for 43,44,45,46,47,48).
If Limit to 2 picks with the current curve, probably need pick 7 ( to trade for 13,14) to match pick1.
If adjust the curve ( say 4500 for pick 1,then 4000 3500,3000,2500,2000 then existing curve for 7 and onwards) then need
3600 points, which is say picks 9 10
Probably need to use 4 to get that,
Or use picks 5,23 if you finish 14th.

 

[Yoda_]

take 1 academy pick per round,

Gold Coast taking three in the first round was taking the pi$$

 

[Obeanie1]

Just make it so the bottom 4's second round draft pick isn't affected by bids and always stay at their normal order.

That'd be a great start...

The first 4 2nd roynd pick get reclassified as end of 1st, not 2nd rounders.

Was thinking the same thing.

Pick 19 stays pick 19, maybe moves out 2 or 3 spots.

Its a start.

Allowing bottom 4 teams to match bids on their academy kids does the same thing.

 

[Obeanie1]

take 1 academy pick per round,

Gold Coast taking three in the first round was taking the pi$$

If the AFL hasnt worked out what will happen when Tassie get bulk picks its stupid.

in the first couple of drafts if the current academy system remains only expansion sides and maybe the bottom 2 or 3 sides will get a pick in the top 20.

Tassie gets say 8 first rounders.

The Suns, GWS, Swans and Lions will all dip in for 4 to 8 academy kids.

We are up to 14 to 16 first round picks already ALL going to expansion clubs.

Leaving 4 to 5 top 20 picks for the remaing 13 teams.

So unless you are lucky to land a father son 10 teams will NOT be getting any top 20 picks. And likely for more than one draft. And expansion teams with gun lists will just keep getting better......and better......and better.

Article today about the fear for North, Eagles, Hawks and even Richmond rebuilding. At least North, Hawks and Eagles started years ago. If a team is about to start a rebuild......THEY are totally rooted.

This current academy and father son system added to the Tassie draft concessions will send some clubs to the bottom of the ladder for 10 years. And it wont be North, the Hawks or the Eagles. It will be the next teams who need to start rebuilding over the next 2 to 3 years.

 

[Jirik13]

take 1 academy pick per round,

Gold Coast taking three in the first round was taking the pi$$

That would happen if Suns finish top 4. There is already a rule for it. No finals no limit on matches in the first round.

 

[tombomb]

take 1 academy pick per round,

Gold Coast taking three in the first round was taking the pi$$

Only because they didn't pay anything close to a fair price.

Gold Coast and other Northern teams, and soon Tasmania, developing and accessing local talent is good for the game.

What isn't good for the game is being able to access these players for 50% of their value.

Increasing the value of higher picks would resolve 95% of the fairness issues and should have been done years ago.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

There's no point in keeping the draft. The original intent of the draft has been lost, so it seems pointless to keep it.

Feeder clubs and zones seems more fair than the current draft.

 

[Obeanie1]

Only because they didn't pay anything close to a fair price.

Gold Coast and other Northern teams, and soon Tasmania, developing and accessing local talent is good for the game.

What isn't good for the game is being able to access these players for 50% of their value.

Increasing the value of higher picks would resolve 95% of the fairness issues and should have been done years ago.

Unless priority access is linked to finishing positions they will just find yet another loophole to pay for top players using discounts and lower picks.

And even if restricted to one academy kid per round it will still be 5 kids on top of Tassies draft assistance packages PLUS father sons.

5 academy picks plus 8 Tassie initiall draft assistance picks plus 2 FS first rounders. Thats 15 of the top 20 gone.

Leaving 5 top 20 picks to be shared by 12 remaining teams yet to have a first round pick or father son.

 

[tombomb]

Unless priority access is linked to finishing positions they will just find yet another loophole to pay for top players using discounts and lower picks.

And even if restricted to one academy kid per round it will still be 5 kids on top of Tassies draft assistance packages PLUS father sons.

5 academy picks plus 8 Tassie initiall draft assistance picks plus 2 FS first rounders. Thats 15 of the top 20 gone.

Leaving 5 top 20 picks to be shared by 12 remaining teams yet to have a first round pick or father son.

The Tasmania issue is completely different debate and if the AFL give them 8 first round picks, the draft is going to be stuffed for years regardless of what happens with academy and father sons.

And the whole point of increasing the points value is so teams can't match bids with a bunch of later picks.

So if Gold Coast wanted to match four players in the one draft, they would have to stockpile first round picks through trading future picks or players. The simple maths would be that you can't match pick 2 with a bunch of picks in the 30s anymore.

Plus they aren't going to remove northern clubs access to top talent just as NSW and QLD start to develop their own talent or remove the father/son rule - so to argue for that is to argue for no solution at all.

 

[Obeanie1]

The Tasmania issue is completely different debate and if the AFL give them 8 first round picks, the draft is going to be stuffed for years regardless of what happens with academy and father sons.

And the whole point of increasing the points value is so teams can't match bids with a bunch of later picks.

So if Gold Coast wanted to match four players in the one draft, they would have to stockpile first round picks through trading future picks or players. The simple maths would be that you can't match pick 2 with a bunch of picks in the 30s anymore.

Plus they aren't going to remove northern clubs access to top talent just as NSW and QLD start to develop their own talent or remove the father/son rule - so to argue for that is to argue for no solution at all.

When 8 clubs get NO picks under 20 its an issue. It doesnt matter if its one, two or three AFL policies that contribute to the outcome. The outcome is simply not acceptable

And some of those clubs may have missed finals and end up not getting a 1st round pick under pick 20. For several years.

So that is what will happen if nothing is changed.

Any draft assistance including academies needs to be based on finishing ladder positions. Not the post code of where a club operates.

How many flags need to be won before unfair academy and father son access.

You play in a grand final you get no priority access the next year.

 

[Philhawk]

So what’s the AFL’s plan here? Faff around and not make a decision …. And then do so only when they’ve announced what Tassie will receive?

 

[tombomb]

When 8 clubs get NO picks under 20 its an issue. It doesnt matter if its one, two or three AFL policies that contribute to the outcome. The outcome is simply not acceptable

And some of those clubs may have missed finals and end up not getting a 1st round pick under pick 20. For several years.

So that is what will happen if nothing is changed.

Any draft assistance including academies needs to be based on finishing ladder positions. Not the post code of where a club operates.

How many flags need to be won before unfair academy and father son access.

You play in a grand final you get no priority access the next year.

They aren't going to remove the father/son rule and they aren't going to blow up the northern academies just as they start doing what they were set up to do.

But I guess this is why it takes the AFL so much time to fix simple things, because time is wasted on non solutions.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

So what’s the AFL’s plan here? Faff around and not make a decision …. And then do so only when they’ve announced what Tassie will receive?

They don't have one. The AFL does not govern, it just appeases with quick 'fixes'.

Richard Goyder needs to kindly **** off.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Gold Coasts haul is being undersold, they got 4 top picks AND have 2 1/2 firsts this year. It will set them up for a decade.

The clubs figured out the system and completely broke it.

I would be for both bottom 4 teams picks being protected and making sure there is a limit that each pick can be bid on, any change that means if it happened again, GC would at least have no firsts this year, not almost 3.

 

[danielG]

Gold Coasts haul is being undersold, they got 4 top picks AND have 2 1/2 firsts this year. It will set them up for a decade.

The clubs figured out the system and completely broke it.

I would be for both bottom 4 teams picks being protected and making sure there is a limit that each pick can be bid on, any change that means if it happened again, GC would at least have no firsts this year, not almost 3.

Problem with the AFL is they are just a completely reactionary organisation.. they are incapable of any form of forethought.. A blind man’s dog can see the issues with the current set up and it really isn’t hard to fix many of the issues but it just sits on its hands until it blows up In their face..The clubs see the issues but the league doesn’t seems to understand how far this flawed system sets teams back.. They won’t fix anything this year and GC will make out like bandits and another team will rort the FA compo utter nonsense and the league will then get back to clubs who responded to their questionnaire with some band aid solutions that won’t fix anything..The inadequacies would make even the most steadfast fan disillusioned with the game. At the absolute bare minimum get rid of the discount for academies and father sons, and make teams pay full whack.. And please FA compo must not dilute the top end of the draft, it kills other bottom feeder clubs trying to get out of the mire…

 

[sydney_gws]

They don't have one. The AFL does not govern, it just appeases with quick 'fixes'.

Richard Goyder needs to kindly * off.

I am suspicious of almost no mention by Cal Twomey on Gettable ( Afl.com.au each wednesday) of this. I think it means he probably knows the likely outcome, but doesn't want to say as he knows it goes against what most fans thinks is reasonable.

 

[Bonz]

My solution to this.

Remove the discount - Yes you spend time developing the kids, but that should just give you the first rights to draft them.

Increase the value of lower picks - Increase the value of first round selections, and increase the gap of points between selections. Make it nearly impossible to match a bid in the first with third round selections.

You can only match a bid with the same amount of selections you have available to you in the draft - this one is a little more complicated to explain, but, let's say you have 3 available spots on your list, then you can only use 3 picks to match a selection. If you have a second academy selection after that you can only match with two selections (if you don't have enough points your first round pick next year gets points taken away from it, if you have traded it it cannot be used).

This will force clubs to pay closer value for their players, all whilst allowing them to bring the player in.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Problem with the AFL is they are just a completely reactionary organisation.. they are incapable of any form of forethought.. A blind man’s dog can see the issues with the current set up and it really isn’t hard to fix many of the issues but it just sits on its hands until it blows up In their face..The clubs see the issues but the league doesn’t seems to understand how far this flawed system sets teams back.. They won’t fix anything this year and GC will make out like bandits and another team will rort the FA compo utter nonsense and the league will then get back to clubs who responded to their questionnaire with some band aid solutions that won’t fix anything..The inadequacies would make even the most steadfast fan disillusioned with the game. At the absolute bare minimum get rid of the discount for academies and father sons, and make teams pay full whack.. And please FA compo must not dilute the top end of the draft, it kills other bottom feeder clubs trying to get out of the mire…

Yeah there are so many good and easy solutions even just discussed in here but we'll likely get some crap that has taken 6 months to put together, somehow cost the millions of dollars and fix basically nothing. We hardly even really discussed possibly more fun options like having both a live draft and a Academy / F/S auction night where all the restricted players go into a pool and teams draft points can be used to live bid on these kids (each club likely gets some kind of discount on "their" players).

Could be so much they can do with that and add such a complex layer to drafting

 

[Buget]

If the AFL hasnt worked out what will happen when Tassie get bulk picks its stupid.

in the first couple of drafts if the current academy system remains only expansion sides and maybe the bottom 2 or 3 sides will get a pick in the top 20.

Tassie gets say 8 first rounders.

The Suns, GWS, Swans and Lions will all dip in for 4 to 8 academy kids.

We are up to 14 to 16 first round picks already ALL going to expansion clubs.

Leaving 4 to 5 top 20 picks for the remaing 13 teams.

So unless you are lucky to land a father son 10 teams will NOT be getting any top 20 picks. And likely for more than one draft. And expansion teams with gun lists will just keep getting better......and better......and better.

Article today about the fear for North, Eagles, Hawks and even Richmond rebuilding. At least North, Hawks and Eagles started years ago. If a team is about to start a rebuild......THEY are totally rooted.

This current academy and father son system added to the Tassie draft concessions will send some clubs to the bottom of the ladder for 10 years. And it wont be North, the Hawks or the Eagles. It will be the next teams who need to start rebuilding over the next 2 to 3 years.

I agree with you. When GWS and GC came into the competition, it was when Port was going through its rebuild and it really stunted their development. Port finished 16th in 2011, but somehow ended up with pick 6 in the national draft through all of the concessions. This also rippled through other draft rounds.

Tasmania will need some draft assistance to get going. However, If the AFL force Tasmania to trade some of those picks they can gain some ready made players and be competitive from day 1. Instead of having a team of kids, they will have some quality experience as well.

The other thing that annoyed me with GWS and GC was the fact that they could lose a high class player, such as a Lynch, as they were hitting their prime then go to the draft, get another kid only for the cycle to repeat.

If the AFL wants to avoid long term draft issues when Tasmania enters, they can’t finish last in year 1, otherwise the draft will be compromised for years.

As for academy selections…. No idea how to fix that….

 

[wizzard400]

I feel like the most simple solution to fixing the draft, and it has probably been said verbatim, is that in order to match any bid on an academy or F/S player it must be matched with a pick from the round that the player is bid on.

I would keep the discount, but only for players that come from the northern academies. Purely because the northern clubs don’t have the same access to local talent like the rest of the country does. Any F/S they should have to pay full price.

In terms of free agency compensation, the AFL needs to take a leaf out of the NFL’s book and get rid of first round compensation. Make any free agency compensation come from the second round onwards.

All of this goes without saying that the draft nowadays is nowhere near deep as what it use to be. The talent drain to other sports is real and this whole issue was inadvertently caused by the AFL trying to fix the talent drain.

 

[The 747]

I agree with you. When GWS and GC came into the competition, it was when Port was going through its rebuild and it really stunted their development. Port finished 16th in 2011, but somehow ended up with pick 6 in the national draft through all of the concessions. This also rippled through other draft rounds.

Tasmania will need some draft assistance to get going. However, If the AFL force Tasmania to trade some of those picks they can gain some ready made players and be competitive from day 1. Instead of having a team of kids, they will have some quality experience as well.

The other thing that annoyed me with GWS and GC was the fact that they could lose a high class player, such as a Lynch, as they were hitting their prime then go to the draft, get another kid only for the cycle to repeat.

If the AFL wants to avoid long term draft issues when Tasmania enters, they can’t finish last in year 1, otherwise the draft will be compromised for years.

As for academy selections…. No idea how to fix that….

I think that was intentional, that cycle enabled the competent administration (GWS) to spread out that list profile and now they are essentially in the same position as any other club (academies aside). GCS went badly wrong and required a rescue, which distorts things a lot. But both clubs were always expected to shed players.