News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[Bestbird]

Don't try and make it complicated. Value picks at the value they have been traded by the clubs themselves so -

1. Make the points curve much steeper and have any points value extinguish by pick 36-40
2. Simple rule you can only match with a maximum of two picks
3. No discount, being able to match is bonus enough

By doing those three easily done things, the whole drama is solved. You don't need a whole heap of other complicated and rortable grey areas. Apply those three points to last years GC draft, or JUH, Daicos, Ashcroft etc and you'll see clubs having to pay a premium to jump up the draft order. No more bag full of crap picks to bag a super star

And bloody fix the rorting of FA compo!!!

I would make it even simpler provided the Draft Value Index is correctly weighted.

Pay the value of the pick bidded on with perhaps a 10% discount, go into deficit the following year if the club doesn't have the available points from their current draft picks.

 

[eastfreo75]

Suma Magic came up with a more correct points system. Starts with pick 1 being 4500 points.

 

[Yoda_]

That's...not how it works?

What? Why did you use quotation marks for academies? Why are you using father-son selections in a comment on the growth of football in Queensland?

How are the Northern Academies being exploited and some links to back it up, please.

The Gold Coast recruiter literally says in the article today "strength is in the depth (of numbers)"


now if that is not getting the most kids in your academy and then hand picking the best ones, I don't know what is




I have often thought, if the AFL wants to "grow the game", if a Gold Coast academy kid is picked up in the first round, allow them on third round (senior list) spot, a second round selection gives them a 1 year senior listed player, a third round gives them a rookie listed player and anything after that is open to match

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Ready for the most unpopular take ever?

If there is too much talent coming through Queensland academies for the Queensland teams to accommodate, then perhaps the 20th team should be in Queensland.

 

[sydney_gws]

Ready for the most unpopular take ever?

If there is too much talent coming through Queensland academies for the Queensland teams to accommodate, then perhaps the 20th team should be in Queensland.

Where though ?
Cairns or Sunshine Coast?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Where though ?
Cairns or Sunshine Coast?

I don't know. It wasn't a serious post. I was hoping for an angrier response tbh

 

[.Shotties.]

The Gold Coast recruiter literally says in the article today "strength is in the depth (of numbers)"

now if that is not getting the most kids in your academy and then hand picking the best ones, I don't know what is

You're not writing out coherent thoughts that follow on from my response or your post. Of course a talent pathway whittles numbers as the grades go up, this is how they work. There are no B and C squads playing in the Talent League or Colts. What I took issue with is this weird notion that the clubs can somehow just add kids to their academy. The kids have to decide to join and continue on if they progress, which is pretty key when league (especially in Queensland) and soccer can sign them with zero drafting process from 15.

Again, there seems to be this perception that Queensland and New South Wales are like Victoria, WA, or SA. For the majority of talented athletes in these two states, the AFL isn't the pinacle of what they want.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

Suma Magic came up with a more correct points system. Starts with pick 1 being 4500 points.

 

[jdstorm]

But the clubs aren't some amorphous body that exist to robotically win football games. They're cultural institutions. My support for the Dogs would be less if we didn't have so many father-sons continuing on the legacy. I would hope that if there was a Footscray-born-and-raised-and-supporting Vietnamese kid, that everyone would agree that it would be good for everyone if he were to play for the Dogs.

The issue is with the bad currency conversions and bad maths of draft picks that allow for manipulation. If a team wins the flag but has a top 10 talent like the above, I don't see what the broad issue is of them being able to pay their entire draft hand of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick to upgrade thier pick 18 to 10 or whatever. The issue is that the current maths and conversions allows them to upgrade that pick 18 to pick 5 and not merely pick 10 or whatever.

Re Cultural institutions

I agree with you which is why I favor having an academy based system vs having a draft system

A draft system makes sense in US sports because it’s developmental pathways are saturated by College sports.

In Australia and specifically AFL we don’t really have anything similar (especially at national scale) and the onus for junior development falls on clubs. So I think it’s unfair and insulting that clubs can develop players for years in SA/Vic/WA and then not have access to these players and lose that cultural continuity.

The bad math is an issue for sure but it’s only an issue because it’s trying to fit academies and a draft into a fair competition when then issue is it shouldn’t be academies and draft but just one or the other.

Ie Bulldogs should have gotten Jamarra and Melbourne Max Andrew and other clubs should be spending more money developing players they don’t have a nepotistic interest in for the good of the game

 

[.Shotties.]

So I think it’s unfair and insulting that clubs can develop players for years in SA/Vic/WA and then not have access to these players and lose that cultural continuity.

This is such a catastrophically bad argument for unrestricted access to players in traditional states. The overwhelming majority of development is not done by AFL clubs in those states.

 

[jdstorm]

This is such a catastrophically bad argument for unrestricted access to players in traditional states. The overwhelming majority of development is not done by AFL clubs in those states.

Why would it be when there’s no incentive for them to do so? Why would They Essendon/Collingwood/Melbourne/Saints/Bulldogs ect spend millions to develop players to get drafted to their rivals?

In my view the system doesn’t need tweaks or remodelling but rather to be rebuilt from the ground up.

In that respect you can’t just look at “traditional afl states” or your making a dual economy. (Such as currently exists) that directly favors teams with the most reliable access to elite talent (via academy and F/S selections)

The fairest system is Every team gets an academy. Salary cap ensures equal spending. No Zone restrictions. Can recruit from anywhere. Players must have 10 seasons with the club to count as eligible.

 

[eastfreo75]

View attachment 1962497View attachment 1962498

Thanks

 

[RanaNaved]

I don't know. It wasn't a serious post. I was hoping for an angrier response tbh

**** you campaigner! What a load of ****ing bullshit, you dumb ****ing w***er!

 

[Lach72]

I don’t want the FS changed until we actually have a chance to benefit.

Geelong get Ablett and Hawkins for a packet of chips, Collingwood get the Moore/Daicos’s for not much more.

Freo pay full tote when Pav and Mundy’s boys are coming through…**** that

 

[CatToTheFuture]

* you campaigner! What a load of ******* bullshit, you dumb ******* w***er!

Thanks, I needed that

 

[Buget]

Using your example, either Richmond should be prepared to trade down from pick 1 to a handful of later first round picks so it voluntarily picks the player at say pick 17. So my scenario would be pick 1 traded for pick 5,12,17. They got 3 players instead of pick 1 and they're holding 17 knowing that's their last chance to get the father son before someone else has a go in the first round.

What you're projecting is Richmond knowingly take different players at 5,12,17 and expect kindness from club holding pick 18. I guarantee you if the club holding pick 18 don't bid, Richmond would still pick someone else at 19 and keep extending that kindness until it runs out and someone actually bids on their father son.

End of the day player will get bid on where another club rates him. Sydney did it to GWS with Harry Rowston. Collingwood did it to Brisbane with Blake Coleman. It's a cut throat business and if they get the calculations wrong, they live with consequences.

Your assessment seems right. What would likely happen is a lot more live draft pick trading on draft night to cover off on the sliders. However, most list management teams are pretty accurate with their talent order and they have a fair idea of what club is interested in who. So in that example if Richmond rated their FS, they will take them in the first round or trade down and bank future picks. Clubs only have a finite number of list spots, so can’t keep picking players.

I’m actually in the scrap FS and academy picks camp. I like the romance of FS, but what do you think an ex-player cares more about? Their son getting drafted or playing for the same club as they did? We aren’t talking about drafts in the 80s and 90s, where player refused to join the club they were drafted to (Buckley style).

If a kid refused to join the club they are drafted to, other clubs won’t look at them in the age of a professional AFL footballer. And state leagues can’t compete with the AFL environment for player development.

And I would argue the same would go for academy players. Isaac Heeney is a gun, but you don’t see him on the back page of the local paper…. Sydney could have recruited any star and he would be a household name. The fact he is from Sydney is almost irrelevant given there is no state of origin.

We live in an interconnected world, academies should be ran by the AFL, not the clubs. A top-10 draft talent doesn’t get to choose where they go, why should someone from Brisbane get that privilege? If both FS and academies are scrapped it isn’t an issue.

 

[Groo2]

Your assessment seems right. What would likely happen is a lot more live draft pick trading on draft night to cover off on the sliders. However, most list management teams are pretty accurate with their talent order and they have a fair idea of what club is interested in who. So in that example if Richmond rated their FS, they will take them in the first round or trade down and bank future picks. Clubs only have a finite number of list spots, so can’t keep picking players.

I’m actually in the scrap FS and academy picks camp. I like the romance of FS, but what do you think an ex-player cares more about? Their son getting drafted or playing for the same club as they did? We aren’t talking about drafts in the 80s and 90s, where player refused to join the club they were drafted to (Buckley style).

If a kid refused to join the club they are drafted to, other clubs won’t look at them in the age of a professional AFL footballer. And state leagues can’t compete with the AFL environment for player development.

And I would argue the same would go for academy players. Isaac Heeney is a gun, but you don’t see him on the back page of the local paper…. Sydney could have recruited any star and he would be a household name. The fact he is from Sydney is almost irrelevant given there is no state of origin.

We live in an interconnected world, academies should be ran by the AFL, not the clubs. A top-10 draft talent doesn’t get to choose where they go, why should someone from Brisbane get that privilege? If both FS and academies are scrapped it isn’t an issue.

Brisbane Broncos have an academy/development program giving local talent a direct pathway to their club. Presumably now the dolphins have something similar. This is who the AFL are competing with for elite talent in Brisbane. How is this the AFL going to do this without something similar (ie Lions/suns academies)?

 

[Boston tiger]

As long as they run everything past Geelong first.

 

[juss]

I don’t want the FS changed until we actually have a chance to benefit.

Geelong get Ablett and Hawkins for a packet of chips, Collingwood get the Moore/Daicos’s for not much more.

Freo pay full tote when Pav and Mundy’s boys are coming through…* that

Someone's going to get screwed when the changes come in, the clubs in question will depend on the timing and the nature of the changes.

To give an example, Richmond have strategically built up a draft hand of points this year with the goal of trading them for first rounder(s) to clubs that need points this year. If the AFL change the rules this year and that isn't a viable option, then Richmond could be one of the clubs that gets screwed as our strategy might not be viable in the changes. We've also got some F/S prospects in the next few years too.

Similarly, clubs that have highly touted F/S this year that haven't seen many of them, I think Carlton have 2 Camporeale boys? Then they could also get screwed if changes come in this year and they can't pick up those guns with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rounders like other clubs have been able to,

It doesn't matter when it happens, someone by pot luck is gonna be worse off when it does.

 

[Buget]

Brisbane Broncos have an academy/development program giving local talent a direct pathway to their club. Presumably now the dolphins have something similar. This is who the AFL are competing with for elite talent in Brisbane. How is this the AFL going to do this without something similar (ie Lions/suns academies)?

Pretty much all the NRL clubs do. Especially in NSW as they all have junior clubs. Also, the NRL doesn’t have a draft as an equalisation method.

So direct comparisons can’t be made.

 

[Groo2]

Pretty much all the NRL clubs do. Especially in NSW as they all have junior clubs. Also, the NRL doesn’t have a draft as an equalisation method.

So direct comparisons can’t be made.

Yes and that’s the point. The AFL is trying to expand the talent pool by trying to attract elite talent to our game. A young kid can choose a pathway to their local NRL club in NSW/QLD, or otherwise (if there were no AFL club academies) try their luck at AFL and end up anywhere in Australia. The AFL does not have anywhere near this issue attracting the elite talent from say SA

 

[Buget]

Yes and that’s the point. The AFL is trying to expand the talent pool by trying to attract elite talent to our game. A young kid can choose a pathway to their local NRL club in NSW/QLD, or otherwise (if there were no AFL club academies) try their luck at AFL and end up anywhere in Australia. The AFL does not have anywhere near this issue attracting the elite talent from say SA

I did see a stat not too long ago that said there was more junior participation in AFL this year in Queensland than South Australia. So why can’t the Adelaide teams have an academy as well?

Also, I don’t think your average 5 year old starts playing Auskick to be in the Sydney Swans or GC Academy? Or do they dream of playing AFL and kicking the goal after the siren?

You can have the same affect of the club based academies in attracting talent as if AFL controlled the academies.

We are not talking about semi-professional clubs. We are talking about professional sports. So if it’s good enough for a Harley Reid to have to move interstate, it’s good enough for someone from the Northern academies.

Yes, it is nice to see local lads playing for their home team or the club that they support as a youngest, but do supporters really care all that much?

Abolish both FS and academy picks. Players who it really matters to (such as JHF) will find a their way home.

 

[Groo2]

I did see a stat not too long ago that said there was more junior participation in AFL this year in Queensland than South Australia. So why can’t the Adelaide teams have an academy as well?

Also, I don’t think your average 5 year old starts playing Auskick to be in the Sydney Swans or GC Academy? Or do they dream of playing AFL and kicking the goal after the siren?

You can have the same affect of the club based academies in attracting talent as if AFL controlled the academies.

We are not talking about semi-professional clubs. We are talking about professional sports. So if it’s good enough for a Harley Reid to have to move interstate, it’s good enough for someone from the Northern academies.

Yes, it is nice to see local lads playing for their home team or the club that they support as a youngest, but do supporters really care all that much?

Abolish both FS and academy picks. Players who it really matters to (such as JHF) will find a their way home.

There is no northern academies if no direct pathway to Lions, Swans etc. No academies = smaller talent pool.

The competition is the other sporting codes (predominantly Rugby League in NSW/QLD). If you can’t offer something similar then you aren’t going to attract the elite talent.

I guess if you want fairness ahead of growing the game, then sure scrap the academies

 

[Buget]

There is no northern academies if no direct pathway to Lions, Swans etc. No academies = smaller talent pool.

The competition is the other sporting codes (predominantly Rugby League in NSW/QLD). If you can’t offer something similar then you aren’t going to attract the elite talent.

I guess if you want fairness ahead of growing the game, then sure scrap the academies

I’m not saying scrap the academies. I’m saying put them under the control of the AFL, like most other talent pathways.

 

[Groo2]

I’m not saying scrap the academies. I’m saying put them under the control of the AFL, like most other talent pathways.

We can agree to disagree, but IMO that just won’t work. The Broncos can guarantee a 15 yo kid, that if that are good enough they can have a career in Brisbane. If that kid is 50/50 on what sport to choose and you can’t guarantee a similar pathway into the AFL (a career staying in Brisbane), then what do you think he/she is going to choose?