News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[go_the_dockers]

Im on your side ffs. 'Vicbias' has messed with your head.

My issue is with academy discounts and priority access. The WA clubs and the SA clubs have it worst out of anyone as far as travel go with no academies to balance it out.

You just saw I was a supporter of a vic club and decided to start a fight. Nice selective dates too, ignoring that the 6 previous premiers before your 'start date' were all interstate.

I don't believe you can ask to remove the academies, unless you remove the other advantages Vic clubs get.

You need to look at all advantages and disadvantages, instead of just one.

I agree with some changes, but vic people ask to remove them with out removing the advantages they have presses my buttons.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I don't believe you can ask to remove the academies, unless you remove the other advantages Vic clubs get.

You need to look at all advantages and disadvantages, instead of just one.

I dont want to remove the academies, I want to remove the priority access and discount that is only available to 4 clubs.

It is by far the biggest advantage out there.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I dont want to remove the academies, I want to remove the priority access and discount that is only available to 4 clubs.

It is by far the biggest advantage out there.

I disagree it is the biggest advantage out there. I think Vic clubs have the biggest advantages.

 

[Ashman23]

Yeah, just the lazy 12 of 23 in the all Australian squad aren't linked to a northern academy.

PROFILED | 2023 AFL U16 All Australian Team

The 2023 AFL Under 16 All Australian team has been announced, and we profile all 23 players who made the cut.

central.rookieme.com

#VICBIAS

 

[mpal6]

F1 has come up with a good model recently and this year they are starting to see the benefits. They introduced a sliding scale in terms of upgrades/development allowed in-season for leading contender vs 2nd, 3rd etc. Leading contender gets minimal funding cap while the chasing pack gets more as they go down the list.

AFL could adopt something similar for bottom four clubs at least. mid-season draft they could be given 2 additional list spots outside cap for recruiting mature age. Similarly let them get 2 additional players via pre-season outside cap. Just give them the buffer to be competitive so they have a larger list and more chances of finding quality either via draft or MSD.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yeah, just the lazy 12 of 23 in the all Australian squad aren't linked to a northern academy.

PROFILED | 2023 AFL U16 All Australian Team

The 2023 AFL Under 16 All Australian team has been announced, and we profile all 23 players who made the cut.

central.rookieme.com

#VICBIAS

There's no Allies team in U16, just a division 1 and 2 separately. They then weighted the performances of each division equally in determining the AA team, not considering the lower quality of the Division 2 academies games. Therefore, it's natural for about half of the team to be from Division 2 and outside of Tasmania, part of the academies.

One of the common misconceptions around here. Nowhere near 12 of the best 25 or so of next year's prospects even at this stage are academy relevant, and no doubt a few of those 12 won't be any higher than a rookie pick or whatever.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yeah, just the lazy 12 of 23 in the all Australian squad aren't linked to a northern academy.

PROFILED | 2023 AFL U16 All Australian Team

The 2023 AFL Under 16 All Australian team has been announced, and we profile all 23 players who made the cut.

central.rookieme.com

#VICBIAS

While it's ridiculous, man, what crazy growth in those areas from where we were 13 years ago. It's pretty impressive the talent coming out of Qld. Now just to make access reflect the increased production of the area...

 

[mpal6]

While it's ridiculous, man, what crazy growth in those areas from where we were 13 years ago. It's pretty impressive the talent coming out of Qld. Now just to make access reflect the increased production of the area...

GC can't take them all and there's going to be spillover if/when GC climb the ladder. I'd say Lions will be the same boat soon, there is only so many we can keep before players start moving elsewhere for opportunity.

 

[Ash1337]

The problem is the AFL is trying to do drafts and academies in the same space and it just doesn't work. You have Academies or a draft not both. If they're going to academies they need to do it like a preselection. 2 for finals teams and 4 spaces for non-finals. No draft points even if they're really good. Just 5yrs minimum and ladder position. Same with F/S really. Make automatic selection tied to academy. The open draft can be for players that don't make academy selection or come through other routes.

I would also like to see academy team leagues like a Victorian academy league or Northern academies league.

Example: Saints miss finals so they can fill 4 spots on their main list with academy kids or FS. However they lose 4 picks in the open draft. If they have 5 spots on the main list to fill they only have their 1st round pick to trade. If they want to trade another pick in the draft they can only take 3 academy kids. If they want to trade future picks they must ensure they have the spots on the main list next season. If they don't they are blocked from bringing in any academy f/s the next season.

 

[Mat Mann]

I don't believe you can ask to remove the academies, unless you remove the other advantages Vic clubs get.

You need to look at all advantages and disadvantages, instead of just one.

I agree with some changes, but vic people ask to remove them with out removing the advantages they have presses my buttons.

without derailing this topic, I'd love to hear the advantages my club has over yours

 

[Mat Mann]

GC can't take them all and there's going to be spillover if/when GC climb the ladder. I'd say Lions will be the same boat soon, there is only so many we can keep before players start moving elsewhere for opportunity.

Conversely, though, everyone can go into the draft, and then players wanting to go home, can, it seems a far fairer way to go rather than fill up a few teams with top-end talent.

We've seen with GWS that the spillover just creates a never-ending gravy train

 

[go_the_dockers]

without derailing this topic, I'd love to hear the advantages my club has over yours

Home grand final
Less travel
More local talent on list
More nationally broadcast games

 

[mpal6]

Conversely, though, everyone can go into the draft, and then players wanting to go home, can, it seems a far fairer way to go rather than fill up a few teams with top-end talent.

We've seen with GWS that the spillover just creates a never-ending gravy train

True but as I've mentioned in an earlier post - go home pull to QLD isn't a thing yet if you're establishing an AFL career. Melbourne is far more attractive to establish yourself as a AFL player - 10 clubs to rotate around, post career opportunities as coach, player agent, media etc. This type of grassroots establishment doesn't exist in QLD.

Also, all academies are not equally pumping out top end talent as you've insinuated. Lions benefited more from father son which is a roulette at this stage, we haven't had a decent one for 20 years and got our lick of the ice cream in 2022 via Ashcroft + Fletcher.

Our good academy selections are Harris Andrews (old academy drafting model in 2014 / pick 40s), Hipwood (teens first round), Coleman (undrafted 2018 so anyone could've taken him/picked in 2019), Payne (pick 54), Reville (as 22 year old), Brain (Cat B). We are patchy at best, there is feedback that ours isn't run as well as others are doing.

Other Lions academy prospects playing elsewhere include Keays (Adelaide), Fullarton (Demons), Corey Wagner (Fremantle), Snell (Swans), Cumberland, Samson Ryan (Richmond), Chol (Richmond, GC, Hawks).

 

[Mat Mann]

Home grand final
Less travel
More local talent on list
More nationally broadcast games

Home grand final - We've played 1 final in 20+ years at our home ground (Sydney 2012), We play at the MCG twice a year( If we are lucky) and are expected to host our finals games there, how is that a Home final?

Less travel - Colour me shocked a team with another 9 teams in the same state doesn't travel as much as one with only 1 other team in said state (but on that - I think you will find the Saints are one of the more traveled teams from Vic)

More local talent on list - Really? when 60% of all talent comes from the same state then ofc maths will dictate that, but we have plenty of non-vics
7 SA players
2 WA players
3 ACT/NSW
QLD/NT
2 TAS
1 Ireland

that's about 39% out of state (allowing for 60% Vic), seems not unreasonable

More nationally broadcast games - we've had about 6 so far on FTA, vs. every game in WA

and bringing it back on topic Saints have 3 F/S, THREE, Adelaide has had 3 only Freo, Suns, GWS have had less

 

[Mat Mann]

True but as I've mentioned in an earlier post - go home pull to QLD isn't a thing yet if you're establishing an AFL career. Melbourne is far more attractive to establish yourself as a AFL player - 10 clubs to rotate around, post career opportunities as coach, player agent, media etc. This type of grassroots establishment doesn't exist in QLD.

Also, all academies are not equally pumping out top end talent as you've insinuated. Lions benefited more from father son which is a roulette at this stage, we haven't had a decent one for 20 years and got our lick of the ice cream in 2022 via Ashcroft + Fletcher.

Our good academy selections are Harris Andrews (old academy drafting model in 2014 / pick 40s), Hipwood (teens first round), Coleman (undrafted 2018 so anyone could've taken him/picked in 2019), Payne (pick 54), Reville (as 22 year old), Brain (Cat B). We are patchy at best, there is feedback that ours isn't run as well as others are doing.

Its all a lottery Other Lions academy prospects playing elsewhere include Keays (Adelaide), Fullarton (Demons), Corey Wagner (Fremantle), Snto an extenell (Swans), Cumberland, Samson Ryan (Richmond), Chol (Richmond, GC, Hawks).

It's a lottery to an extent, but far easier to make things fair when everyone goes into the one pot, and far easier to address the other issues when they don't have to balance different issues.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Home grand final - We've played 1 final in 20+ years at our home ground (Sydney 2012), We play at the MCG twice a year( If we are lucky) and are expected to host our finals games there, how is that a Home final?

Less travel - Colour me shocked a team with another 9 teams in the same state doesn't travel as much as one with only 1 other team in said state (but on that - I think you will find the Saints are one of the more traveled teams from Vic)

More local talent on list - Really? when 60% of all talent comes from the same state then ofc maths will dictate that, but we have plenty of non-vics
7 SA players
2 WA players
3 ACT/NSW
QLD/NT
2 TAS
1 Ireland

that's about 39% out of state (allowing for 60% Vic), seems not unreasonable

More nationally broadcast games - we've had about 6 so far on FTA, vs. every game in WA

and bringing it back on topic Saints have 3 F/S, THREE, Adelaide has had 3 only Freo, Suns, GWS have had less

Glad to see you admit you have advantages over us.

 

[.Shotties.]

Absolutely wheezing at the idea that opening up bidding for the NGAs will do anything to change the box-ticking exercise they are.

For all the crying about it, I'd be very interested to know what the development was for Andrew, Sanders, and Mackenzie were between the school and Talent League pathways they were already in.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Absolutely wheezing at the idea that opening up bidding for the NGAs will do anything to change the box-ticking exercise they are.

For all the crying about it, I'd be very interested to know what the development was for Andrew, Sanders, and Mackenzie were between the school and Talent League pathways they were already in.

Someone scoffed at it but the criteria really should be tightened. Dad playing even like 50 games at VFL/WAFL level should rule you out. Lived in Australia before 6? Ruled out, etc etc.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Someone scoffed at it but the criteria really should be tightened. Dad playing even like 50 games at VFL/WAFL level should rule you out. Lived in Australia before 6? Ruled out, etc etc.

It is getting people who may not be into AFL, into it.

The hard but is working out who needs assistance.

Two parents born overseas is fine.

Would be great to see more kids of Indian heritage playing.

 

[.Shotties.]

Someone scoffed at it but the criteria really should be tightened. Dad playing even like 50 games at VFL/WAFL level should rule you out.

Yeah. If you're in an area with talent pathways already.

Again, I don't think people not from Sydney actually understand: without the academies here, there is no elite talent pathway. There's no pipeline to pluck people from, there's nothing to fall back on. People point to Blakey, but as a kid who played for Easts juniors, he wouldn't have made it to the AFL. Just like all the other father sons who grew up in urban Sydney or Brisbane like the Roos boys or Casey Voss.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yeah. If you're in an area with talent pathways already.

Again, I don't think people not from Sydney actually understand: without the academies here, there is no elite talent pathway. There's no pipeline to pluck people from, there's nothing to fall back on. People point to Blakey, but as a kid who played for Easts juniors, he wouldn't have made it to the AFL. Just like all the other father sons who grew up in urban Sydney or Brisbane like the Roos boys or Casey Voss.

And again, I think only the nuffiest nuffies wanted them removed all together, it was always about the list building advantage and particularly against teams rebuilding. I'm sure basically everyone would have been fine with their club chucking in some more money so Northern clubs can continue the excellent development work they are doing and not be out of pocket if it meant removing priority access in the draft.

It's all redundant now anyway, the AFL has taken the easy option and just given everyone access to compromise it further (I really would have liked staggered access in the first round based on ladder position). I'll wait to see if they can at least make everyone pay a fair price for these players.

 

[.Shotties.]

And again, I think only the nuffiest nuffies wanted them removed all together,

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the level of effort and investment required.

Removing access to father-sons makes sense if they're in an area with school football programs and high level development pathways from under 12s.

 

[Elixuh]

And again, I think only the nuffiest nuffies wanted them removed all together, it was always about the list building advantage and particularly against teams rebuilding. I'm sure basically everyone would have been fine with their club chucking in some more money so Northern clubs can continue the excellent development work they are doing and not be out of pocket if it meant removing priority access in the draft.

It's all redundant now anyway, the AFL has taken the easy option and just given everyone access to compromise it further (I really would have liked staggered access in the first round based on ladder position). I'll wait to see if they can at least make everyone pay a fair price for these players.

The issue is that’s not true. I don’t know about the position of interstate clubs in SA and WA but I know that multiple Melbourne clubs have no interest in resourcing these academies, and certainly no interest in giving us resources to run the academies. They want them gone because they see them as being next to no benefit to them directly. They couldn’t care less about growing the game elsewhere because they already have the structural advantages. It’s all self interest and not diluting historical structural advantages enjoyed by predominantly big VFL sides.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The issue is that’s not true. I don’t know about the position of interstate clubs in SA and WA but I know that multiple Melbourne clubs have no interest in resourcing these academies, and certainly no interest in giving us resources to run the academies. They want them gone because they see them as being next to no benefit to them directly. They couldn’t care less about growing the game elsewhere because they already have the structural advantages. It’s all self interest and not diluting historical structural advantages enjoyed by predominantly big VFL sides.

Sounds about par for some of those clubs. It is a bit different in WA because the north of the state really has a bunch of kids who'll never get a fair go at realising their potential and I know Freo put a decent amount of resources to scouring those areas. The Vic ones are pure scams though so I imagine there's a fair of prohection from those clubs.

The AFL has really just taken the easiest option again here though and it's going to be ****ed even more. 12 months of discussion to arrive at "just give it to everyone". Unreal how pathetic they are.

 

[sydney_gws]

Sounds about par for some of those clubs. It us a bit different in WA because the north of the state really had a bunch of kids who'll never get a fair go at realising their potential and I know Freo put a decent amount of resources to scouring those areas. The Vic ones are pure scams though so I imagine there's a fair of prohection from those clubs.

The AFL has really just taken the easiest option again here though and it's going to be ****ed even more. 12 months of discussion to arrive at "just give it to everyone". Unreal how pathetic they are.

Are all WA indigenous players eligible for NGA, or just areas outside Perth?
As long as points curve is adjusted it might still work well.
There's no way for Vic clubs to scam things is there, they can't fake birth certificates or encourage talented female athletes in their zone to go overseas for their child's birth.