News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Are all WA indigenous players eligible for NGA, or just areas outside Perth?
As long as points curve is adjusted it might still work well.
There's no way for Vic clubs to scam things is there, they can't fake birth certificates or encourage talented female athletes in their zone to go overseas for their child's birth.

All indigenous, effectively, unless.its clarified, WC and Freo have unilateral access to all indigenous talent from the state now. I was for it previously out of equalisation spite but it's going to get abused very quickly.

The scam on these NGAs isn't faking birth certificates it's basically putting kids in academies that are already in elite pathways and just providing a way for clubs to get talent for cheap, not actually getting kids into the game we woulsnt have otherwise. Healy had a good rant about it this morning or yesterday I think.

They HAVE to tighten NGA criteria drastically as well significantly increase the cost of bidding or this is going to spiral extremely quickly. Why they can't just restrict top 10 or 20 access for all bids (or a rolling access based on ladder position) is beyond me.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

All indigenous, effectively, unless.its clarified, WC and Freo have unilateral access to all indigenous talent from the state now. I was for it previously out of equalisation spite but it's going to get abused very quickly.

The scam on these NGAs isn't faking birth certificates it's basically putting kids in academies that are already in elite pathways and just providing a way for clubs to get talent for cheap, not actually providing a Healy had a good rant about it this morning or yesterday I think.

They HAVE to tighten NGA criteria drastically as well significantly increase the cost of bidding or this is going to spiral extremely quickly. Why they can't just restrict top 10 or 20 access for all bids (or a rolling access based on ladder position) is beyond me.

The extent of access and discounts can be debated, and whether club academies is the proper mechanism too, but I don't think classifying Indigenous individuals who grow up outside of the Perth/SW WA metro areas as "already part of elite pathways" [without/before the academies] is not correct at all. There were patchwork systems (ie Clontarf) but I don't think there's much debate that existing WAFL/National Champs system of talent development is exactly effective or appropriate for the types of players that the NGA systems are geared toward.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The extent of access and discounts can be debated, and whether club academies is the proper mechanism too, but I don't think classifying Indigenous individuals who grow up outside of the Perth/SW WA metro areas as "already part of elite pathways" [without/before the academies] is not correct at all. There were patchwork systems (ie Clontarf) but I don't think there's much debate that existing WAFL/National Champs system of talent development is exactly effective or appropriate for the types of players that the NGA systems are geared toward.

Sorry, I might not have been clear, I agree with you. I'm trying to say kids in rural WA would greatly benefit from the Freo and WC academies because they don't have strong pathways and face significant other barriers to make a life through footy. WA is a little different to Vic in that a large part of the state needs help, there is a lot of potential benefit there. The metro kids eligibility is going to be absurd though.

 

[sydney_gws]

All indigenous, effectively, unless.its clarified, WC and Freo have unilateral access to all indigenous talent from the state now. I was for it previously out of equalisation spite but it's going to get abused very quickly.

The scam on these NGAs isn't faking birth certificates it's basically putting kids in academies that are already in elite pathways and just providing a way for clubs to get talent for cheap, not actually getting kids into the game we woulsnt have otherwise. Healy had a good rant about it this morning or yesterday I think.

They HAVE to tighten NGA criteria drastically as well significantly increase the cost of bidding or this is going to spiral extremely quickly. Why they can't just restrict top 10 or 20 access for all bids (or a rolling access based on ladder position) is beyond me.

Sydney swans in particular wouldn't want it ( restricting top 10 access. Thats what really matters, getting a free a-grade player every 2 years or so).

 

[Obeanie1]

such as?

natural advantages? Areyou referring to the home ground advantage thing again that has been debunked?

So are you saying that traditional Melbourne clubs hold no natural advantages over new expansion clubs?

None at all?

What about travel or lack of travel? No natural advantage there?

All clubs are exactly equal are they?

 

[Obeanie1]

All indigenous, effectively, unless.its clarified, WC and Freo have unilateral access to all indigenous talent from the state now. I was for it previously out of equalisation spite but it's going to get abused very quickly.

The scam on these NGAs isn't faking birth certificates it's basically putting kids in academies that are already in elite pathways and just providing a way for clubs to get talent for cheap, not actually getting kids into the game we woulsnt have otherwise. Healy had a good rant about it this morning or yesterday I think.

They HAVE to tighten NGA criteria drastically as well significantly increase the cost of bidding or this is going to spiral extremely quickly. Why they can't just restrict top 10 or 20 access for all bids (or a rolling access based on ladder position) is beyond me.

100% on the last comment.

Why go this unrestricted route when the JUH result was the exact reason they changed the system. A recent premier lands a pick 1 talent on the cheap. That is what needs to be stopped.

Any top 4 team or premier should not be getting the same access and discounts as teams finishing bottom 4 and winning wooden spoons.

It isnt a hard concept and it applies to all teams equally based on their current ladder finishes. If you want equalisation and to make a closer competition thats the way to do it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

100% on the last comment.

Why go this unrestricted route when the JUH result was the exact reason they changed the system. A recent premier lands a pick 1 talent on the cheap. That is what needs to be stopped.

Any top 4 team or premier should not be getting the same access and discounts as teams finishing bottom 4 and winning wooden spoons.

It isnt a hard concept and it applies to all teams equally based on their current ladder finishes. If you want equalisation and to make a closer competition thats the way to do it.

Tinfoil hat given I think the WA clubs were as big a champion for unrestricted access as anyone is this way they can kill as many birds with one stone as possible. Northern teams keep their access with less complaining from everyone else and they can more easily shaft us on travel concessions (I shit you not, Jay Clark was on radio yesterday saying he thinks it lands on us getting some preseason carnival "for all the kids to have fun", I was literally shouting at him through the radio) saying they gave us what we wanted on NGAs.

 

[danster168]

So are you saying that traditional Melbourne clubs hold no natural advantages over new expansion clubs?

None at all?

What about travel or lack of travel? No natural advantage there?

All clubs are exactly equal are they?

No, not all clubs are exactly equal. But if you're going to bang on about travel then you need to offset it by acknowledging that every time an interstate gets a home game its a massive advantage over when Vic teams play other vic teams at home, because half the time, there's 50/50 supporters. So you get the advantage of the noise of affirmation biasing the umps, the crowd support plus the experience of playing at the ground. Vic teams don't have that competitive advantage over each other. So if I can acknowledge that the travel is a disadvantage then you can acknowledge that big advantage that non-vic teams get.

 

[Dangerousfield]

..............The AFL has really just taken the easiest option again here though and it's going to be ****ed even more. 12 months of discussion to arrive at "just give it to everyone". Unreal how pathetic they are.

Resetting the NGA rort back to the JUH debacle without addressing the real problem and that's getting top talent cheap - Laura Kane scared of the big Vic clubs, a BIG fail again!

You couldn't dream up such incompetence but here it is!!

 

[Ash1337]

Resetting the NGA rort back to the JUH debacle without addressing the real problem of getting top talent cheap - Laura Kane a BIG fail again!

You couldn't dream up such incompetence but here it is!!

5 years for eligibility changes the landscape. JUH was 3 years in the NGA system so new rules he wouldn't have been eligible. Sanders on the other hand was only in the NGA for 1 year at North which is what we really want to see stopped if there was no bidding in the top 40 picks. Same with players in the northern academies that got eligible because they moved there the year before their draft.

 

[danster168]

imagine Mac Andrew next to May and Lever. Absolutely stolen from us.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Resetting the NGA rort back to the JUH debacle without addressing the real problem and that's getting top talent cheap - Laura Kane scared of the big Vic clubs, a BIG fail again!

You couldn't dream up such incompetence but here it is!!

The cost change is coming but I'll hold my breath on how strong the change is. My main gripe is if they'll make no cost changes this year, they have to be staggering it or it's cooked.

5 years for eligibility changes the landscape. JUH was 3 years in the NGA system so new rules he wouldn't have been eligible. Sanders on the other hand was only in the NGA for 1 year at North which is what we really want to see stopped if there was no bidding in the top 40 picks. Same with players in the northern academies that got eligible because they moved there the year before their draft.

I didn't know about this change, that's a good rule - if it's strictly enforced.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

100% on the last comment.

Why go this unrestricted route when the JUH result was the exact reason they changed the system. A recent premier lands a pick 1 talent on the cheap. That is what needs to be stopped.

Any top 4 team or premier should not be getting the same access and discounts as teams finishing bottom 4 and winning wooden spoons.

It isnt a hard concept and it applies to all teams equally based on their current ladder finishes. If you want equalisation and to make a closer competition thats the way to do it.

The issue is seeing it as an issue that the Dogs could jump the draft, as opposed to the fact that the Dogs could jump the draft with not paying enough.

I don't see a huge issue with club access outside the draft being a means to help Indigenous Victorian players, of which there is absolutely an issue of their talent development. The issue is that Dogs should have just paid much more seeply of a draft hand to recruit him, which could have even possibly extended into subsequent years, especially also recruiting Darcy.

We absolutely should have not had a first round pick pick to recruit Busslinger with pick 13, for example - on points systems that should have been soaked up to recruit JUH and Darcy.

 

[Andre the Giant]

 

[Ash1337]

The cost change is coming but I'll hold my breath on how strong the change is. My main gripe is if they'll make no cost changes this year, they have to be staggering it or it's cooked.

I didn't know about this change, that's a good rule - if it's strictly enforced.

Yeah someone on the board posted a list. It also includes a change to the first 40 picks having a points value.

 

[Jirik13]

All indigenous, effectively, unless.its clarified, WC and Freo have unilateral access to all indigenous talent from the state now. I was for it previously out of equalisation spite but it's going to get abused very quickly.

The scam on these NGAs isn't faking birth certificates it's basically putting kids in academies that are already in elite pathways and just providing a way for clubs to get talent for cheap, not actually getting kids into the game we woulsnt have otherwise. Healy had a good rant about it this morning or yesterday I think.

They HAVE to tighten NGA criteria drastically as well significantly increase the cost of bidding or this is going to spiral extremely quickly. Why they can't just restrict top 10 or 20 access for all bids (or a rolling access based on ladder position) is beyond me.

Access is already limited based on ladder position for Northern academies. Let’s see if AFL does the same for F/S and NGS.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Access is already limited based on ladder position for Northern academies. Let’s see if AFL does the same for F/S and NGS.

I think that's a very small limitation and I'd be disgusted if that's not applied to everyone else. Those rules should be even stricter IMO.

 

[Jirik13]

I think that's a very small limitation and I'd be disgusted if that's not applied to everyone else. Those rules should be even stricter IMO.

It’s not small limitation. If Suns finished top four last year they would be able to match only one bid in first round. But yes I would make top 4 no match and 5-8 only 1 bid. I doubt AFL will apply the same limits on F/S.

 

[Obeanie1]

No, not all clubs are exactly equal. But if you're going to bang on about travel then you need to offset it by acknowledging that every time an interstate gets a home game its a massive advantage over when Vic teams play other vic teams at home, because half the time, there's 50/50 supporters. So you get the advantage of the noise of affirmation biasing the umps, the crowd support plus the experience of playing at the ground. Vic teams don't have that competitive advantage over each other. So if I can acknowledge that the travel is a disadvantage then you can acknowledge that big advantage that non-vic teams get.

Geez what a load of BS.

Totally grasping at straws with that argument.

So because interstate crowds cheer louder that makes up for the ridiculous travel load they endure? It evens out? Baaah haah haah haaar hoo....jeez. Great argument.

How loud do the Suns and GWS crowds cheer? Big traditional Vic clubs often get more supporters to away games than the Suns and GWS do hosting them.

The last Pies v Cats game at rhe MCG was a Pies home game, hardly any Geelong supporters showed up and the crowd was 90% behind the hime team.

Maybe Dees supporters should walk out of the members bar and corporate boxes and make some actual noise between sipping champers and talking down their noses to each other.

 

[Obeanie1]

Access is already limited based on ladder position for Northern academies. Let’s see if AFL does the same for F/S and NGS.

Agreed. The limit is a wet lettuce leaf that does nothing.

The limit should be on all priority access not just limits to academy kids. Including father son and free agents.

 

[tigs2010]

Healy can't demand change. You need that weasel Wankley to drive anything you want changed.

 

[Bjo187]

I like the nga's, however they should only be for:

• kids who's both parents are from overseas, non western countries, ie. No whities!
• not include indigenous kids, they've grown up with the game in their local community, family, friends etc. They can be developed through other academies like Eddie Betts one.

I'd also consider:
- not include kids that have been playing since 9 years old anyway, such as Mac Andrew was.

It needs to be to bring new multicultural talent to the AFL that otherwise wouldn't play the sport. Clubs need to head hunt the best athletes across all the schools in their zone and train them up from scratch. That's how you actually spread the game and encourage clubs to invest in grass roots development. Not by signing a kid to their academy, that's already playing and immersed in footy culture anyway.

 

[Stamos]

It’s not small limitation. If Suns finished top four last year they would be able to match only one bid in first round. But yes I would make top 4 no match and 5-8 only 1 bid. I doubt AFL will apply the same limits on F/S.

Agreed. The limit is a wet lettuce leaf that does nothing.

The limit should be on all priority access not just limits to academy kids. Including father son and free agents.

Once the points curved is fixed, the limits will be pretty redundant, because it will be so expensive to match multiple bids.

That said, there's a huge difference between Academy players, with talented players coming though nearly every year, and Father-Sons, who are uncommon and random.

 

[Andre the Giant]

I like the nga's, however they should only be for:

• kids who's both parents are from overseas, non western countries, ie. No whities!
• not include indigenous kids, they've grown up with the game in their local community, family, friends etc. They can be developed through other academies like Eddie Betts one.

I'd also consider:
- not include kids that have been playing since 9 years old anyway, such as Mac Andrew was.

It needs to be to bring new multicultural talent to the AFL that otherwise wouldn't play the sport. Clubs need to head hunt the best athletes across all the schools in their zone and train them up from scratch. That's how you actually spread the game and encourage clubs to invest in grass roots development. Not by signing a kid to their academy, that's already playing and immersed in footy culture anyway.

I agree with parts of what you are saying. The colour of the skin or ethnicity is irrelevant. I think this should be about capturing and developing new talent, anybody who has played or is playing junior AFL should be ineligible.

This should be used to entice new athletes so it should be getting across rugby league, union, Gaelic footballers, soccer, nfl etc. Understand they already have Cat B, rookie and other mechanisms but what I’m saying is if there has to be an NGA just move that into this.

Clubs that do the work and get these kids into AFL should have a free hit at it and possibly even some salary cap exemptions.

They should not be able to use this as a vehicle to warehouse and prohibit the rest of the comp to gain access to this talent.

The Quaynor and Jamarra examples are a disgrace, they were high level players who had played all their lives and were just opportunistic plays.

This makes a mockery of the competition.

 

[Obeanie1]

Once the points curved is fixed, the limits will be pretty redundant, because it will be so expensive to match multiple bids.

That said, there's a huge difference between Academy players, with talented players coming though nearly every year, and Father-Sons, who are uncommon and random.

The inequity really starts showing when the one club gets two academy picks and then also dips into free agency in the same year. Not to mention father sons.

So limiting the number of free hits each year to top 4 teams is definitely a way to get a more equal playing field.