Analysis AFL to review Coroner's findings into Shane Tuck's death

[THE THIN MAN]

AFL to review Coroner's findings into Shane Tuck's death

The Victorian State Coroner has released his findings after his investigation into the death of former Richmond star Shane Tuck

www.afl.com.au

 

[DickieKnee]

I'm not a legal expert but why are they taking the club to court over this and not the AFL. The only way I can see the club is liable is if they broke AFL concussion protocols. If the protocols weren't strong enough or non existent surely that's the AFLs liability?

 

[tora tora tora]

I'm not a legal expert but why are they taking the club to court over this and not the AFL. The only way I can see the club is liable is if they broke AFL concussion protocols. If the protocols weren't strong enough or non existent surely that's the AFLs liability?

The Tuck family & the class action?

 

[tora tora tora]

AFL to review Coroner's findings into Shane Tuck's death

The Victorian State Coroner has released his findings after his investigation into the death of former Richmond star Shane Tuck

www.afl.com.au

Coronial inquiry didn't mention RFC. Just what measures the league needs to take to prevent concussion.
The AFL got congratulated on the measures it has taken in recent times

Class action lawsuit will take a long time. 60 players I think.

If it ain't a lump sum. AFL could pay out families over time.

The comp should survive

 

[Vassp]

I'm not a legal expert but why are they taking the club to court over this and not the AFL. The only way I can see the club is liable is if they broke AFL concussion protocols. If the protocols weren't strong enough or non existent surely that's the AFLs liability?

The way I see it is that footy players all know footy is dangerous, you can't play and then start suing a club, bullshit American style lawyer crap. I got kicked in the head during play - it was an accident, no concussion rules back then no suing no nothing.

We will live in a world where no one would want to do anything for fear of the lawyers and rule-makers.

 

[tigerfan1961]

The way I see it is that footy players all know footy is dangerous, you can't play and then start suing a club, bullshit American style lawyer crap. I got kicked in the head during play - it was an accident, no concussion rules back then no suing no nothing.

We will live in a world where no one would want to do anything for fear of the lawyers and rule-makers.

Yep, that’s my view too, players know the risks for sure. Sadly, Tucky then jumped into boxing, which surely would only have made his condition worse?

 

[Sir_Loin]

The way I see it is that footy players all know footy is dangerous, you can't play and then start suing a club, bullshit American style lawyer crap. I got kicked in the head during play - it was an accident, no concussion rules back then no suing no nothing.

We will live in a world where no one would want to do anything for fear of the lawyers and rule-makers.

Yeah but the extent of damage done due to repeated concussion has only become better known since the science has improved. The Jordan Lewis KO I still shudder when I see that. And that was relatively recent - absolutely ridiculous he came back on.

The science is there, maybe the AFL was way too slow in implementing the changes. And this type of stuff doesn’t help:

Concussion researcher claims AFL hindered two-year research project into players’ health | Concussion in sport | The Guardian

Associate Prof Alan Pearce says he signed a $60,000 contract with league for tests on retired players but believes the AFL hindered his research’s progress for nearly 18 months

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Vassp]

Yep, that’s my view too, players know the risks for sure. Sadly, Tucky then jumped into boxing, which surely would only have made his condition worse?

no disrespect to Tuck, could be, i think we dont really know the effects on all humans, we are all different.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Yeah but the extent of damage done due to repeated concussion has only become better known since the science has improved. The Jordan Lewis KO I still shudder when I see that. And that was relatively recent - absolutely ridiculous he came back on.

The science is there, maybe the AFL was way too slow in implementing the changes. And this type of stuff doesn’t help:

Concussion researcher claims AFL hindered two-year research project into players’ health | Concussion in sport | The Guardian

Associate Prof Alan Pearce says he signed a $60,000 contract with league for tests on retired players but believes the AFL hindered his research’s progress for nearly 18 months

amp.theguardian.com

The Vickery one stands out in my mind when he was trying to mark the ball when it was no where near him and he hits the deck afterwards

 

[Sir_Loin]

The Vickery one stands out in my mind when he was trying to mark the ball when it was no where near him and he hits the deck afterwards

Yeah Jesus I remember that.

 

[Phar Ace]

I'm disappointed the Coroner focused almost solely on Shane's involvement with AFL, there was some time at SANFL and quite a bit of time boxing and sparring. The AFL is low hanging fruit.

Having played for the best part of 30 years, granted not at the elite level, I would be more fearful of the damage done in a boxing ring and sparring, than anything much that occurred in my nearly 30 years, and have had my share of head stitches.

 

[tora tora tora]

I'm disappointed the Coroner focused almost solely on Shane's involvement with AFL, there was some time at SANFL and quite a bit of time boxing and sparring. The AFL is low hanging fruit.

Having played for the best part of 30 years, granted not at the elite level, I would be more fearful of the damage done in a boxing ring and sparring, than anything much that occurred in my nearly 30 years, and have had my share of head stitches.

Tuck is certainly entitled to join the class action against the AFL..
Don't know if I would describe the AFL aa low hanging fruit but certainly the richest fruit.
And given the relatively new CTE issue, tuck dying from it, coronial inquires etc.where the AFL are defendants not the SANFL or boxing associations.

I'm not sure how it plays out in a class action..is it one decision by the court for
60 players. Or can a judge say the AFL was only 70% liable in Tucks case.

I'm kinda staggered as I google zantuck.
12 years at Essendon grammar. Not farking cheap.
Still you'd expect a graduate to be able to read and write. Unless it was the grand parents just putting him through..
The Daniher brothers had a cleaning company that used to employ footballers.
Zantuck runs a cleaning company himself.

Footy careers come to an end very quickly I know RFC had boys doing training courses.. to develop skills post footy.

If zantuck was so " crippled" Why is he not on the ndis?
Send the missus out to work.

Suing RFC. Won't get the total he is asking. If our, or our doctor legal teams couldn't counter zantuck claims with everything he has done post RFC end of the day he loses he may have to pay our legal fees.


He'd need a million to buy real estate.

A million in the bank gets the family 50k/year.
Not to be sneezed at

Jeez it cost my family 40k to challenge an estate decision
Zantuck in the supreme Court. Ffs.... must be a pro bono arrangement.


The detail of Zantuck epidurals is impressive.

Be interested to see if the sacking at the school is in our favour or not.
In addition to the sacking from EFC.
I noticed Daffy was his coach after Stathmore. I wonder if we speak to him.
Zantuck is claiming he can't hold a job
. His job seems to have been football. I pretty sure ex AFL players were on 50k a season
50k a year is not enough for a family, in court we'd want to have a look at Zantuck finances.
In fact zantuck has the cleaning business.
Someone has to lug back pack with a vacuum cleaner on it
Maybe not Ty.

 

[Vassp]

Yeah but the extent of damage done due to repeated concussion has only become better known since the science has improved. The Jordan Lewis KO I still shudder when I see that. And that was relatively recent - absolutely ridiculous he came back on.

The science is there, maybe the AFL was way too slow in implementing the changes. And this type of stuff doesn’t help:

Concussion researcher claims AFL hindered two-year research project into players’ health | Concussion in sport | The Guardian

Associate Prof Alan Pearce says he signed a $60,000 contract with league for tests on retired players but believes the AFL hindered his research’s progress for nearly 18 months

amp.theguardian.com

yes, agreed but how is that the CLUBS fault?

 

[Sir_Loin]

yes, agreed but how is that the CLUBS fault?

Don’t know exactly but how many times was he put back on the field when he was concussed? That’s the million dollar question.

 

[Phar Ace]

Don’t know exactly but how many times was he put back on the field when he was concussed? That’s the million dollar question.

And to what extent was the diagnosis unequivocal, and are there even expert records. How many head knocks in how many years of footy vs how many head knocks per hour in boxing?

 

[Danw0w]

The Vickery one stands out in my mind when he was trying to mark the ball when it was no where near him and he hits the deck afterwards

So many freaks were making fun of him after this. Shameful..

 

[Sir_Loin]

And to what extent was the diagnosis unequivocal, and are there even expert records. How many head knocks in how many years of footy vs how many head knocks per hour in boxing?

You’re asking questions above your pay grade. You’re suggesting it was the boxing that was the contributing factor for the CTE. It doesn’t work like that. Which I think you know.

Let’s just be a bit circumspect about it and recognise what the footy contribution could have been.

 

[Stigmata]

The fact is the game has to be safer. We are in an incredibly tough market for the future of our game. That isn't about people understanding what AFL is. It's about making sure little johnny or little Janey play footy. Not basketball, soccer, touch or netball.

Right now mum and dad don't let their kids play and 20 years down the track we end like lacrosse, trugo or Gaelic footy. A nice anachronism.

The more the AFL make it safe the better

 

[Truetiger]

I'm disappointed the Coroner focused almost solely on Shane's involvement with AFL, there was some time at SANFL and quite a bit of time boxing and sparring. The AFL is low hanging fruit.

Having played for the best part of 30 years, granted not at the elite level, I would be more fearful of the damage done in a boxing ring and sparring, than anything much that occurred in my nearly 30 years, and have had my share of head stitches.

How much boxing did he do before AFL? I am sure everything will be looked at.

 

[lllscroatlll]

The fact is the game has to be safer. We are in an incredibly tough market for the future of our game. That isn't about people understanding what AFL is. It's about making sure little johnny or little Janey play footy. Not basketball, soccer, touch or netball.

Right now mum and dad don't let their kids play and 20 years down the track we end like lacrosse, trugo or Gaelic footy. A nice anachronism.

The more the AFL make it safe the better

so to save the league we must kill the game?

just sign waivers as players, and make post concussion protocols wbp.

we want aussie rules not a freaking watered down safety fest

 

[Muddiemoose]

so to save the league we must kill the game?

just sign waivers as players, and make post concussion protocols wbp.

we want aussie rules not a freaking watered down safety fest

Waivers aren’t worth the paper they are printed on, especially if it’s seen the league as the player’s employer have breached its duty of care for the employee or they can’t afford the insurance

Throw in workplace safety laws with individuals now able to be changed instead of the organisation as a whole no one will want to open themselves to the potential of massive fines or even jail time

Sure the afl are wealthy but in terms of sporting organisations it’s very much a small fish when you compare it to other leagues facing the same issue

 

[lllscroatlll]

Waivers aren’t worth the paper they are printed on, especially if it’s seen the league as the player’s employer have breached its duty of care for the employee or they can’t afford the insurance

Throw in workplace safety laws with individuals now able to be changed instead of the organisation as a whole no one will want to open themselves to the potential of massive fines or even jail time

Sure the afl are wealthy but in terms of sporting organisations it’s very much a small fish when you compare it to other leagues facing the same issue

thats why im saying, worlds best practice for post-concussion treatment and care

clubs are held to account for post-concussion, players sign a contract that they accept the risks of concussion and will abide by post-incident directives

how is a contract not worth the paper its signed on exactly?

 

[Muddiemoose]

thats why im saying, worlds best practice for post-concussion treatment and care

clubs are held to account for post-concussion, players sign a contract that they accept the risks of concussion and will abide by post-incident directives

how is a contract not worth the paper its signed on exactly?

Any decent enough lawyer would be able to work around contracts if it’s deemed that the league didn’t do everything practicable to eliminate or limit the risk of concussions in the first place, without implementing rule changes it’s a very easy argument to make especially if they are directly given recommendations from this current class action

This would also be the stipulations of the insurance companies who would either simply not take on the afl as a client or propose fees that the afl wouldn’t be able to afford

They could also probably make arguments that contracts signed by 18 year olds are not sufficient if they do not fully understand the risks or weren’t sufficiently informed of the risks

 

[Vassp]

Don’t know exactly but how many times was he put back on the field when he was concussed? That’s the million dollar question.

The argument would be that it was not known Back then how much that would contribute (if any) to any serious health effects of concussion.
How many boxers are still in great health even after many many more head knocks/concusions?
There are so many variables, it could be treated on a case-to-case basis but that would put more worms into the blender.

How many sports players are in long term pain because of knocks, even factory workers long-term body stress, the list goes on and on and it can never be fixed.

ONCE they get their dirty mits on this we will be like the SATES OF crApMERICA.

Side Note......
Then we got the same job, same pay scenario to think about. Crazy times.

 

[lllscroatlll]

The argument would be that it was not known Back then how much that would contribute (if any) to any serious health effects of concussion.
How many boxers are still in great health even after many many more head knocks/concusions?
There are so many variables, it could be treated on a case-to-case basis but that would put more worms into the blender.

How many sports players are in long term pain because of knocks, even factory workers long-term body stress, the list goes on and on and it can never be fixed.

ONCE they get their dirty mits on this we will be like the SATES OF crApMERICA.

Side Note......
Then we got the same job, same pay scenario to think about. Crazy times.

we became the 51st state when we embraced litigation culture

which still dominates as this thread would evince