AFL to zone entire Northern Territory to North Melbourne

[Rob R]

AFL News 2024: North Melbourne, Northern Territory academies, AFL review, talent pathways, Caroline Wilson comments

Interesting. Seems like a straight swap for Tassie?

Apparently Geelong, Essendon, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Melbourne currently have pathways in the NT, and would be booted out. I’ll be honest, personally I have no idea what these “pathways” give those clubs anyway.

Assume this means North will take over games played in Darwin and Alice?

I’d also wonder why North get handed a Tassie replacement, but Hawthorn don’t?

Doubt the AFL would throw away the work Gold Coast has done up there by giving it to a team renowned for cashing in and running on their previous interstate deals of course this is the lead in to a relocation.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RUNVS]

News to me.

Parker (Langwarrin)
Florent (Parkdale)
Rowbottom (Camberwell)
McInerney (Bundoora)
Jordan (Caulfield)
McLean (Mentone)
Amartey (Beaumaris)

Looks like a proportional demographic treated like any other.

Yes, and only one of whom was taken in the first round, and most of whom we drafted years ago now.

We are fine with taking Vic Metro players with speculative picks, but not first rounders.

 

[Sphynx]

Yes, and only one of whom was taken in the first round, and most of whom we drafted years ago now.

We are fine with taking Vic Metro players with speculative picks, but not first rounders.

This has to do with anything why?

Player retention isn't restricted to first round prospects.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Just one step closer to relocating the club.

Northern Territory Kangaroos has a good ring to it (or even NT Kangas), and Club Logo/Team name fits the Northern Territory image already.

The NT can't sustain a full-time team. Swapping Tasmania's four games to the NT should be more than enough.

 

[kuhni]

I'm not crying about it, just pulling you up on the point you tried making about WCE and Freo(although Freo have indeed benefited from their NGA before the rules got changed, in the form of Liam Henry).

You mean when we were forced into paying overs for him by Carlton to give them more time on the clock.

 

[Rotayjay]

The draft and salary cap equalised the league pretty well. The academies have severely compromised that (look at Sydney), and now they're bringing back zones too, are they? Don't they realise all the premierships in the zone era were won by a handful of clubs? The clowns at AFL House don't give a * about equalisation anymore.

 

[bzparkes]

You mean when we were forced into paying overs for him by Carlton to give them more time on the clock.

Irrelevant.

You could've simply let Carlton take him and picked someone else but you were still able to match.

 

[Tas]

I think academies are bullshit and ALL of them should go.

We are re-inventing zoning and we know from history it is shit because it is purely RNG if your zones spits out anyone with real talent or not.

It was decided a long time ago that taking junior development out of the hands of clubs and into the AFL would create a single pool of talent and it gets distributed to where it is needed the most based on ladder position. The only exception to this was to be the father son rule.

There has just been one compromise after another and Vic clubs getting zones is meant to be some kind of compensation for the bullshit northern academies. It is just all garbage. AFL should hire all the coaches it forced the clubs to axe during covid and put them into grass roots development in every state and territory. If they can't do grass roots development better than the clubs then they need to exit the administration and we can appoint people more competent.

 

[The_Reaper]

OK.

So Sydney has the pick of about 5 million people in NSW for their Northern Academy.

West Coat and Fremantle get entire footballing states with massive percentages of first nations people compared to the east coast for their NGA feeder pools.

Likewise Adelaide and Port.

Every Victorian club gets massive territories aligned with CTL u/18 sides and their talent ID and pathways programs.


And North gets....Docklands and the Melbourne CBD?



It's not a leg up if it's actually rectifying a massive rort.

West Coast, Freo and the SA teams get bugger all academy access compares to the Victorian teams

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think we are getting closer to state-based drafting and at some stage it might just be easier and fairer to go for that.

Somebody has to get NT, might as well be North.

Assuming they will play games there too.

Wonder what the plan is for Hawthorn, shouldn’t be forgotten they are also losing Tassie.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

I think we are getting closer to state-based drafting and at some stage it might just be easier and fairer to go for that.

Somebody has to get NT, might as well be North.

Assuming they will play games there too.

Wonder what the plan is for Hawthorn, shouldn’t be forgotten they are also losing Tassie.

The plan for Hawthorn is apparently Cairns. They already have a multi year deal to have a community camp and play an AFLW game at Cazaly’s Stadium each season. AFL Cairns have expressed a desire to get the men’s team playing there from 2026 (after their current Tassie deal expires).

 

[Atomboy]

You couldn't give me one convincing argument as to why North will still be in the competition in it's current format in another 15 years.

You can't throw this much assistance to a club which isn't a moneymaker and expect to coast along on tradition alone.

They make a profit every year ?.

 

[craffles]

The simple solution is to **** academies off altogether. The AFL and it’s association member clubs are all registered non profits. They should be ****ing investing back into grass roots more and it shouldn’t be just with the carrot of my club will benefit from it.

Until they stop taking the government grants and funding gravy train we should be screaming at them as fans and tax payers to do more.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

No club should have any priority access to NGA zones. It should be a requirement between the AFL and the clubs that they aim to grow the game without the added incentive of receiving priority access.

The AFL provides funds to the clubs anyway. It should simply be one of the requirements of being funded that they participate and promote football for the betterment of football across the country.

 

[Sphynx]

West Coast, Freo and the SA teams get bugger all academy access compares to the Victorian teams

Fremantle are one of the few teams who managed to land a top 10 pick out of the old rules.

They used the system to double dip land 3 consecutive top 10 picks when they selected Serong, Young and Liam Henry.

If the rules that are about to be adjusted were in play for last years draft, the 2 of the 3 players effected would have gone to WA and SA clubs.

Lance Collard to West Coast
Isaac Keeler to Adelaide (They didn't actually nominate him, im sure they may have under the new rules....)
Luamon Lual to the Dogs.


The 40+ pick threshold WAS introduced because of the WA and SA talent pools having large indigenous %'s. It was only limited really because of timing. Franklin, Bennell, Cyril, Ryder, Wells etc all would have gone as NGA's had they been around under those rules. Most of the above names would have gone to Freo or West Coast (Cyril would be Essendon) They needed to be shut.




Under the new rules the likes of Shai Bolton, Brad Hill, Jesse Motlop would have ended up at West Coast or Fremantle, that's without barely digging into it.

There's other sides that would have retrospectively benefited a lot, but through weight of numbers West Coast and Fremantle will prevail long term.

 

[Sphynx]

No club should have any priority access to NGA zones. It should be a requirement between the AFL and the clubs that they aim to grow the game without the added incentive of receiving priority access.

The AFL provides funds to the clubs anyway. It should simply be one of the requirements of being funded that they participate and promote football for the betterment of football across the country.

The exact same rules need to apply to Northern Academy sides.

They were incorporated to grow the game in Rugby League areas

They weren't incorporated for player retention, that is a secondary benefit.

Every club is exposed to player retention issues, it's not exclusive to Sydney and QLD teams. They also have geographical advantages that other clubs don't.

Isaac Heeney is raised as the gold standard of the Academy System, with good reason, he would have probably played Rugby League had they not been around.


Likewise, Nick Blakey is an example of the exploitation of the system.

F/S's eligible players shouldn't be eligible for Academy pre-selection. F/S eligible players are not players being brought in from Rugby League and rival codes.

Unfortunately the AFL and Norther Academies have bent the system in such a way there's no other pathway option for kids now.

 

[Outtatym]

The simple solution is to **** academies off altogether. The AFL and it’s association member clubs are all registered non profits. They should be ****ing investing back into grass roots more and it shouldn’t be just with the carrot of my club will benefit from it.

Until they stop taking the government grants and funding gravy train we should be screaming at them as fans and tax payers to do more.

Came here to say the same thing. They are a total farce. Bin it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think academies are bullshit and ALL of them should go.

We are re-inventing zoning and we know from history it is shit because it is purely RNG if your zones spits out anyone with real talent or not.

It was decided a long time ago that taking junior development out of the hands of clubs and into the AFL would create a single pool of talent and it gets distributed to where it is needed the most based on ladder position. The only exception to this was to be the father son rule.

There has just been one compromise after another and Vic clubs getting zones is meant to be some kind of compensation for the bullshit northern academies. It is just all garbage. AFL should hire all the coaches it forced the clubs to axe during covid and put them into grass roots development in every state and territory. If they can't do grass roots development better than the clubs then they need to exit the administration and we can appoint people more competent.

The simple solution is to **** academies off altogether. The AFL and it’s association member clubs are all registered non profits. They should be ****ing investing back into grass roots more and it shouldn’t be just with the carrot of my club will benefit from it.

Until they stop taking the government grants and funding gravy train we should be screaming at them as fans and tax payers to do more.

I agree, honestly. Despite the huge benefit my club gets from the Northern Academy, it'd be more fair if the AFL got off their rear ends and ran it themselves. But they're too lazy or incompetent to do so, and they saddled it on the clubs. And so long as those clubs are responsible for development in the frontier states, they deserve to be rewarded for it.

But what can we as fans do about it? The AFL don't have to listen to us.

They weren't incorporated for player retention, that is a secondary benefit.

This is incorrect, they have always been about generating homegrown players for the northern states to guard against the go home factor.

Every club is exposed to player retention issues, it's not exclusive to Sydney and QLD teams.

Except nobody suffers as badly as northern state teams when they're doing poorly. The majority of players come from Victoria and don't have a go home factor when drafted in Victoria. SA and WA produce more talent than NSW or QLD with the same number of AFL clubs. So don't pretend it's equal, it never has been.

They also have geographical advantages that other clubs don't.

Which is more than outweighed by the extra travel factor and lack of games at the ground where the grand final is played. To be fair this applies to all non-Victorian clubs.

 

[Sphynx]

I agree, honestly. Despite the huge benefit my club gets from the Northern Academy, it'd be more fair if the AFL got off their rear ends and ran it themselves. But they're too lazy or incompetent to do so, and they saddled it on the clubs. And so long as those clubs are responsible for development in the frontier states, they deserve to be rewarded for it.

But what can we as fans do about it? The AFL don't have to listen to us.


This is incorrect, they have always been about generating homegrown players for the northern states to guard against the go home factor.


Except nobody suffers as badly as northern state teams when they're doing poorly. The majority of players come from Victoria and don't have a go home factor when drafted in Victoria. SA and WA produce more talent than NSW or QLD with the same number of AFL clubs. So don't pretend it's equal, it never has been.


Which is more than outweighed by the extra travel factor and lack of games at the ground where the grand final is played. To be fair this applies to all non-Victorian clubs.

A lot of your points are fair, except for the fact that the WA and SA clubs experience the same risks, even more travel and the MCG issue.

They don't have WA or SA academies.

The NSW and QLD talent pools are comparable to the WA and SA ones these days, which is a testament to the involvement of the Northern Clubs and the money they have spent.

But it's also hypocritical.

1. It took self interest to get to that level of investment. Even if the AFL funded it completely and financed the Northern clubs, they wouldn't have gone to that level of involvement without the return on investment at the draft.

2. How much better could the WA talent pool be if West Coast pumped their infinite resources into it if they got priority access to half of it?

We don't do that, because a line needs to be drawn between the talent pool and the fairness of the competition.


Everyone also ignores some of the geographical advantages the Northern clubs have at their disposal.

Josh Dunkley and Joe Danniher didn't move to QLD because of Chris Fagan, they wanted to live in QLD.

Lance Franklin wanted to live in Sydney.

They have inherent advantages of their own. They aren't all disadvantages.

 

[Tas]

I agree, honestly. Despite the huge benefit my club gets from the Northern Academy, it'd be more fair if the AFL got off their rear ends and ran it themselves. But they're too lazy or incompetent to do so, and they saddled it on the clubs. And so long as those clubs are responsible for development in the frontier states, they deserve to be rewarded for it.

But what can we as fans do about it? The AFL don't have to listen to us.

As long as the AFL develops the kids just as well in QLD, NSW, etc then clubs like Brisbane, Gold Coast, GWS, etc can just draft players from their region or trade for them, getting priority access to them isn't necessary.

The reason this is done is because the AFL want NSW and QLD clubs regularly in the finals, because when these clubs drop out of the top 8 they go from Vegas to Detroit.

I understand they want expansion to be successful, but it is coming at the expense of the integrity of the competition. It just isn't a level playing field, Geelong has been the only club in over a decade that has won a flag without a wheelbarrow of on-field assistance and/or concessions.

As much as I hate us receiving whatever we have in recent times, it is just ludicrous that we are meant to try and put a team together to try and win a flag when you compare it to what GC and GWS have been given access to.

There is nothing we can do about it other than bitch and moan about it, sadly.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Gold Coast having the Northern Territory makes a bit of sense, but North Melbourne? There is no logic there other than the AFL wanting to give the worst club in Melbourne a leg up.

Or preparing the ground for a Keep North Far North Move

 

[JasRulz63]

A lot of your points are fair, except for the fact that the WA and SA clubs experience the same risks, even more travel and the MCG issue.

They don't have WA or SA academies.

The NSW and QLD talent pools are comparable to the WA and SA ones these days, which is a testament to the involvement of the Northern Clubs and the money they have spent.

As long as the AFL develops the kids just as well in QLD, NSW, etc then clubs like Brisbane, Gold Coast, GWS, etc can just draft players from their region or trade for them, getting priority access to them isn't necessary.

I had a rough count based on the Footywire lists and ~20-25% of Brisbane's list is from Queensland compared to ~55-60% of North's and WC's lists being from their home state. This is despite Brisbane having priority access to Queensland players and North or WC not.

So far, Brisbane have also only had one top 20 pick from the academy (that wasn't a F/S we would've had access to anyway).

It's all well and good when the the Queensland and NSW are doing well, but once those teams start to struggle then retention becomes an a bigger struggle with a higher proportion of players from interstate.

If we were to get rid of the Northern academies for fairness (which I can see the argument for), then what will these clubs then be given to address the disadvantage of % of list from interstate?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

A lot of your points are fair, except for the fact that the WA and SA clubs experience the same risks, even more travel and the MCG issue.

I literally said that in the comment! But no, they don't have the same risks, as more talent is produced in WA and SA, so there is a greater chance of avoiding go home factor.

The NSW and QLD talent pools are comparable to the WA and SA ones these days, which is a testament to the involvement of the Northern Clubs and the money they have spent.

No, they're not. Of the last five Brownlow medals, two were won by someone from SA, two were won by someone from WA, and one was one by someone from Victoria. Zero were won by anyone from NSW or Queensland. It's been 23 years since someone from a northern state won a Brownlow.

1. It took self interest to get to that level of investment. Even if the AFL funded it completely and financed the Northern clubs, they wouldn't have gone to that level of involvement without the return on investment at the draft.

Do you live in a country where relatively poor people invest in things that are unlikely to have any prospect of a return? It shouldn't be the job of clubs to grow the game, their focus should be on winning premierships and remaining financially stable. If the AFL expects them to perform another duty too of course they need it to be made worth their while

2. How much better could the WA talent pool be if West Coast pumped their infinite resources into it if they got priority access to half of it?

Do you know who earns even more money than West Coast? The AFL. They have massive resources. They could just give West Coast less from central revenue sharing and put it into the grassroots directly. But why should their money go to WA, a state that already has plenty of investment into youth football, and where all the best young athletes go into our game already? This is akin to complaining that poor people get welfare and the wealthy deserve handouts too.

We don't do that, because a line needs to be drawn between the talent pool and the fairness of the competition.

It does. You're pretending that the line should be drawn evenly everywhere because everywhere has the same risks. It doesn't.

Everyone also ignores some of the geographical advantages the Northern clubs have at their disposal.

I acknowledged it above but said it was greatly outweighed by the disadvantages. You didn't address that.

Josh Dunkley and Joe Danniher didn't move to QLD because of Chris Fagan, they wanted to live in QLD.

Lance Franklin wanted to live in Sydney.

They have inherent advantages of their own. They aren't all disadvantages.

And Jordan Dawson wanted to live in Adelaide. As did Aliir Aliir. As did Isaac Rankine. Individual examples don't mean anything, it's trends that matter, and there are a lot more players wanting to live in the state they grew up in than moving to Queensland or NSW for the lifestyle. Nobody said it's all disadvantages, just that they greatly outweigh the advantages.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

As long as the AFL develops the kids just as well in QLD, NSW, etc then clubs like Brisbane, Gold Coast, GWS, etc can just draft players from their region or trade for them, getting priority access to them isn't necessary.

Eventually yes, but we're not there yet. In the women's game Queensland might have achieved parity with WA and SA in terms of the volume of talent generation, but it hasn't happened in the men's game so far, and won't for a long time. Until that happens, I think there's some value to zoning, though the current system is far too generous. Perhaps having a bidding war between the two clubs in Queensland/NSW for talent would ensure a fairer price is paid for talent.

The reason this is done is because the AFL want NSW and QLD clubs regularly in the finals, because when these clubs drop out of the top 8 they go from Vegas to Detroit.

I don't think it's the reason that it's done, but it is important to not have northern clubs struggling for too long, or it kills off their fanbase and the momentum behind the game expanding. I remember back in 2003-2005 when the Lions were huge and Akermanis had a regular spot on the evening news in Brisbane. Then the Lions struggling for a decade completely killed off the buzz and the footy presence in the media here. It's never risen to the same heights since, though at least we have stars doing endorsement deals once again.

I understand they want expansion to be successful, but it is coming at the expense of the integrity of the competition. It just isn't a level playing field, Geelong has been the only club in over a decade that has won a flag without a wheelbarrow of on-field assistance and/or concessions.

Aside from the father-sons they got cheap. Not sure the priority picks Richmond got back in the day did much for them by the time 2017 rolled around. What assistance did West Coast get? Or Collingwood?

As much as I hate us receiving whatever we have in recent times, it is just ludicrous that we are meant to try and put a team together to try and win a flag when you compare it to what GC and GWS have been given access to.

Have you seen how many players both those teams have lost? Every year there are multiple good players seeking a trade to Victoria. Your club just hasn't benefited because you've been at the wrong end of the table.

 

[skipper kelly]

Everyone also ignores some of the geographical advantages the Northern clubs have at their disposal.

Josh Dunkley and Joe Danniher didn't move to QLD because of Chris Fagan, they wanted to live in QLD.

Lance Franklin wanted to live in Sydney.

They have inherent advantages of their own. They aren't all disadvantages.

Very true. Who the **** wants to live in Melbourne.