Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

[Lore]

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[Lore]

We're talking about privately though. I specifically said internally and Keystone agony seems to think that's wrong, they're aiming for a flag. Well, he did until you posted this and now he seems to agree with you, which leaves me confused as to why he disagreed with me.

Btw you think internally the coaches and players aren't open and honest? That the coaches say one thing to the players and another amongst themselves?

I suppose they all have to be selling a flag dream to their players and the board of the club, or they’d be sacked. But most would be saying “soon”, “next couple of years”, “rebuilding for a flag window in our 5 year plan”. Or substitute “flag” for “sustained success” or similar corporate jargon.

They wouldn’t be saying “win flag now, this year” internally unless they were top 4 the previous year and missed out by a kick in the prelim or something. if you set the bar too high and then you get to mid year and are getting smashed due to injuries or something, that’s how you get sacked.

 

[fairbump_playon]

There’s a difference between how clubs approach games vs long term list management / board expectations

In the sheds before the first bounce of every game I believe each team is preparing themselves to do what it takes to win. And if you are trying to win each game then you’re trying to win the flag.

But in last year’s trade period North aren’t topping up with a bunch of 30 year old free agency stars. Their footy department and board know it’s probably going to take a few years.

But is there any sense in the coaching staff communicating this to players and the external world? I don’t reckon it does anything but give players excuses if you say to them “the window isn’t open”.

That crap started 15 years ago.. half the comp claimed they had a closed window. Self defeating as an external message. Leads to Melbourne tanking etc..

Hate to say this but thank god the dogs then tigers won those flags.

I want and expect Essendon to be trying to win the flag this year. Don’t reckon they will, but you gotta try, right?

 

[andleanback]

We're talking about privately though. I specifically said internally and Keystone agony seems to think that's wrong, they're aiming for a flag. Well, he did until you posted this and now he seems to agree with you, which leaves me confused as to why he disagreed with me.

Btw you think internally the coaches and players aren't open and honest? That the coaches say one thing to the players and another amongst themselves?

i never said they aren’t open and honest with the players they would be, but it’s not the message thats pushed onto the playing group. It’s hardly motivating to hear you are 2-3 years away. as further comments have said above, they don’t come in and say at the start of preseason /season we aren’t good enough to win a flag yet, we’ll be in there in a couple of years and we should settle mid table. You never know what can happen in season and how it’ll pan out until you start playing games. A team can get in a run out of nowhere and special things can happen, look at ‘93. Even though internally with the ceo gm of footy, coaches would have a more holistic view of where the club is headed.

 

[Yoda_]

i never said they aren’t open and honest with the players they would be, but it’s not the message thats pushed onto the playing group. It’s hardly motivating to hear you are 2-3 years away. as further comments have said above, they don’t come in and say at the start of preseason /season we aren’t good enough to win a flag yet, we’ll be in there in a couple of years and we should settle mid table. You never know what can happen in season and how it’ll pan out until you start playing games. A team can get in a run out of nowhere and special things can happen, look at ‘93. Even though internally with the ceo gm of footy, coaches would have a more holistic view of where the club is headed.

Without knowing the back story of the conversation, I would hope Rutten and the MC say we are good enough to beat any body. That is what should keep us going throughout the year. For sides like North Melbourne, for sides like Gold Coast, it would be glimpses against the better sides and genuine chances against sides ranked similarly to them that would get them through the season.

 

[boncer34]

i never said they aren’t open and honest with the players they would be, but it’s not the message thats pushed onto the playing group. It’s hardly motivating to hear you are 2-3 years away. as further comments have said above, they don’t come in and say at the start of preseason /season we aren’t good enough to win a flag yet, we’ll be in there in a couple of years and we should settle mid table. You never know what can happen in season and how it’ll pan out until you start playing games. A team can get in a run out of nowhere and special things can happen, look at ‘93. Even though internally with the ceo gm of footy, coaches would have a more holistic view of where the club is headed.

I feel like we're splitting hairs here so I'm happy to move on.

 

[Lore]

There’s a difference between how clubs approach games vs long term list management / board expectations

In the sheds before the first bounce of every game I believe each team is preparing themselves to do what it takes to win. And if you are trying to win each game then you’re trying to win the flag.

But in last year’s trade period North aren’t topping up with a bunch of 30 year old free agency stars. Their footy department and board know it’s probably going to take a few years.

But is there any sense in the coaching staff communicating this to players and the external world? I don’t reckon it does anything but give players excuses if you say to them “the window isn’t open”.

That crap started 15 years ago.. half the comp claimed they had a closed window. Self defeating as an external message. Leads to Melbourne tanking etc..

Hate to say this but thank god the dogs then tigers won those flags.

I want and expect Essendon to be trying to win the flag this year. Don’t reckon they will, but you gotta try, right?

They don’t always. It can be about winning quarters or winning the second half. GWS’s inaugural year they celebrated winning quarters under Sheeds, rather than delusionally thinking they’re going to win every game and getting ridiculously demoralised when you inevitably don’t, and you don’t every week.

Same sort of thing with us in 2016. We knew we weren’t winning the flag with kids and top ups, but we went out there trying to pinch a few points, defy expectations and convince the suspended guys they wanted to come back and play with these plucky kids.

The other thing is you get players like Zach Merrett who are smart enough to realise when they’re being bullshitted. If you have a rag tag bunch of kids and a few over 30 and not much in between, with a flimsy game plan and no healthy KPPs, you’re going to get flogged, and then he’s going to leave because you keep saying you’re going to win a flag but don’t communicate a clear idea of where you’re at, where you’re going, and how you’re going to get there. He knows he’s wasting his time.

That’s why you have the cliches of blooding the kids, building a dynasty, bedding in a game plan, constant improvement, improvement is not linear... And then they’ll say something vague like, “who knows where we can get to? We know what good Essendon footy looks like, if we can sustain that for four quarters who knows what we can achieve?”

It’s a very different way of framing it versus going into a rebuilding year telling your players you’re going to win a flag regardless. Reminds me of Carlton every other year. They were winning a flag under Bolton until he got sacked in like round 11..

 

[BrunoV]

There are multiple levels of expectation.

The players need to believe they can win each game and are prepared accordingly. If that results in winning more than losing a side can win a flag. I think that's an expectation inside the footy department but that it is most likely unacknowledged or at least not directly addressed (because it's not process driven).

Board and administrative expectations are different and more realistic which is why we don't see 10 coaches a year sacked.

 

[EnolaGay]

Agree with Bruno re the coaching expectation should be about instilling belief and desire to beat each team they face, week to week. String wins and the rest can take care of itself.

Anyhow, how about them trades and free agents?

 

[Keystone agony]

Id expect the playing group and coaching group to outline what they can achieve and what the goal is for them this year

For me that goal on the whiteboard would be saying 'Premiership/GF, why not?'

Thats the internal aim of the club imo

They wont say that to the media

Melbourne ect who won the flag had it as the aim/goal and didnt even play finals for the two previous years

 

[BrunoV]

Id expect the playing group and coaching group to outline what they can achieve and what the goal is for them this year

For me that goal on the whiteboard would be saying 'Premiership/GF, why not?'

Thats the internal aim of the club imo

They wont say that to the media

Melbourne ect who won the flag had it as the aim/goal and didnt even play finals for the two previous years

Problem is that one or two years later the goal has been there and meant nothing.

The why not us line has its place. It will happen almost organically.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

IT’S HAPPENING

 

[eth-dog]

Just when you think they've turned a corner, we do stupid shit again...

 

[Bunk Moreland]

SMACK!

 

[Lore]

IT’S HAPPENING

At Adelaide...

did he ever play with Rutten? Train against him?

 

[fairbump_playon]

It’s ok. When Sam Grimley gets listed as a top up then we are in a different place

 

[Keystone agony]

Problem is that one or two years later the goal has been there and meant nothing.

The why not us line has its place. It will happen almost organically.

A new year is a new opportunity in footyland

New coaches, new players, new systems new environments

Look i doubt a kangaroos or crows have the same goal circled but weve had clubs turn it around in 12 months from finishing positions down that end before.

Putting a cap on things is more dangerous then having the same goal for a few years in a row that is considered realistic with an altered group imo

If the dees have the goal of just a finals win last year then do they win the flag? Simpistic minds would say yes, im not quite sure its as clear cut as dominant as they were

 

[Schnitzengruben]

ANNOUNCE DELL'OLIO

 

[boncer34]

Ricky Dyson is only 36

 

[eth-dog]

Stanton playing coach for the VFL

 

[faible]

considered realistic

You've nailed it.

 

[bennyg12]

Josh Green only 29?

 

[boncer34]

Josh Green only 29?

Rumor has it if you say that name 3 times Dero appears

 

[eth-dog]

Revealed: Ex-stars, big names in every AFL club’s full contingency player list

Revealed: Ex-stars, big names in every AFL club’s full contingency player list

www.foxsports.com.au

ESSENDON

Dylan Landt (Essendon VFL)
Joe Atley

30

Joe Atley

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

3.3

1star

HB

10.8

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

3.3

2star

HB

10.8

5star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.0

5star

(Essendon VFL)
James Harrold (Essendon VFL)
Ben Archard (Essendon VFL)
Will Golds (Essendon VFL)
James Peters (Essendon VFL)
Shaun McKernan

27

Shaun Mckernan

Age

34

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.4

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

17.0

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.2

3star

(Essendon VFL)
Sam Conforti (Essendon VFL)
Patrick Bannister (Essendon VFL)
Billy Cootee (Essendon VFL)
Max Simpson (Essendon VFL)
Cam McLeod (Essendon VFL)
Austin Harris (Essendon VFL)
Joel Fitzgerald (Essendon VFL)
Cooper Anderson (Essendon VFL)
Ronald Jnr Fejo (Essendon VFL)

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Revealed: Ex-stars, big names in every AFL club’s full contingency player list

Revealed: Ex-stars, big names in every AFL club’s full contingency player list

www.foxsports.com.au

Needs more Craig Bird.

 

[eth-dog]

Needs more Craig Bird.

We get a couple of VFL returnees though