List Mgmt. AFLW List Management, Trades, Draft, Expansion Thread

[Firewalker]

The default scenario is (based on 2025 salaries)

2 players at Tier 1, $109,760
6 players at Tier 2, $89,559
6 players at Tier 3, $76,091
16 players at Tier 4, $67,337
(Total of $2,290,812)

However clubs can adjust their tier structure as long as they don't go over the total, and don't have more than 3 tier 1 players. For example, if we run with only one tier 1 player, it saves enough money to move two tier 4 players into tier 3. Or if we run with zero tier 1 players, we can move three tier 3 players into tier 2. If we move one tier 2 player down to tier 3, and one tier 3 player down to tier 4, we could have an extra tier 1.

The club can also pay up to $127,693 in total across the entire list for additional services. The top two paid players at the club are not included in that total, they can be paid as much as you like for additional services.

It seems safe to assume that Marinoff and Hatchard are our two tier 1 players.

Filling out tier 2 is a bit tougher. Sarah Allan and Randall seem obvious, and probably Biddell got there in her most recent contract. Beyond that, probably Ponter? Maybe Gould got there in her most recent contract. Possibly SLT given her experience? Or Jess Allan? Kelly? Jones?

Here is my guess:

Tier 1 - Marinoff, Hatchard
Tier 2 - S. Allan, Randall, Biddell, Gould, Ponter, Jones
Tier 3 - Kelly, Newman, Charlton, J. Allan, Thompson, Prowse
Tier 4 - Boileau, Martin, Munyard, Kustermann, Varnhagen, Levy, Smith, Waterhouse, Henry, Talinton, Boyle-Carr, Ballard, Tonon, Goodwin, Allen, Mueller


From that group, Newman and Prowse would rightly expect to move up to tier 2. Jones or Ponter could move down, or maybe Randall or S. Allan makes the sacrifice?

Goodwin would reasonably expect to move up to tier 3, but not many options to move down. Kelly, perhaps?

As much as Hatchard's form has been down, she's still one of our best players and I don't think we would yet move her down from tier 1.

Imagine nowadays it not as clear cut and teams would structure it into sub-tiers, both Ponter and Jones would be on higher than tier 2 but just below the tier 1 pay structure given the amount of offers the Crows have had to fend off for both of them over the last few years from opposition teams.

Biddell probably just below tier 2 and Jess Allan, Charlton and Newman I would think then might even be on something a touch below tier 3 to accommodate others, so you can see why Carlton have had a shot at Newman, similar to the Bulldogs offer to Gould & Prowse when they were in lower tiers.

Also Randall depending on her development coach contract with the men’s program might even be below tier 2 to accommodate Gould’s promotion this year as well as those Jones & Ponter deals.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The club can also pay up to $127,693 in total across the entire list for additional services. The top two paid players at the club are not included in that total, they can be paid as much as you like for additional services.

Fwiw that two player exemption goes away next year:

These limits (both minimum and maximum spend) exclude the two Players with the highest value AFLW Additional Services Agreements at each Club in respect of 2023 and 2024.

The only players league-wide who will be on unmetered ASA contracts for the next two seasons are Chloe Molloy and Lucy McEvoy, because Sydney's concessions included being able to offer long-term contracts before the CBA was finalised. Per 8.6(c):

Notwithstanding clauses 8.6(a) and 8.6(b) above, any Additional Services Agreement that has been entered into prior to the date of execution of this Agreement and applies to the 2025 and/or 2026 AFLW Season(s) will remain in place and enforceable (Existing AFLW ASA).

 

[dplggr47]

How many per tier? Gould is arguably sitting alongside Hatchard and just behind Marinoff as our most important player right now given our dearth of goal-scoring options. Prowse next tier down but looking like a linchpin of our defence for the next decade.

Gould is currently more important to the side than Hatchard.

 

[cmndstab]

Gould is currently more important to the side than Hatchard.

I think Hatchard is one of those players where you only realise how important she is to the side once she's gone.

That being said, she just played a shocker in the QF tonight, so...

 

[dplggr47]

I think Hatchard is one of those players where you only realise how important she is to the side once she's gone.

That being said, she just played a shocker in the QF tonight, so...

When she's taking strong marks around the ground, using her strength to break free from a pack or being dangerous up forward, she is an absolute superstar. She's been too inconsistent. At least Gould has a reason if she has a down day. She is constantly double or triple teamed. Gould has been amazing this past month though. Easily one of our best players.

 

[Coopers]

Goodwin would reasonably expect to move up to tier 3, but not many options to move down. Kelly, perhaps?

Thompson you'd think.

 

[Untouchables22]

When she's taking strong marks around the ground, using her strength to break free from a pack or being dangerous up forward, she is an absolute superstar. She's been too inconsistent. At least Gould has a reason if she has a down day. She is constantly double or triple teamed. Gould has been amazing this past month though. Easily one of our best players.

She doesn't look quite as fit as the past couple of years, not covering the ground.

 

[cmndstab]

She doesn't look quite as fit as the past couple of years, not covering the ground.

I haven't noticed that as much. To be fair, she's spent more time up forward the past two seasons, so her role hasn't required that as much.

What I have noticed is that she has become a chronic fumbler, has started double-grabbing at marks, and her decision-making has noticeably deteriorated. And she's never been an excellent kick.

I'm confident that she should be able to fix those issues, and if so she would immediately go back to being a top-shelf player like in the past... but then I've been saying that for three straight seasons now.

 

[dplggr47]

I haven't noticed that as much. To be fair, she's spent more time up forward the past two seasons, so her role hasn't required that as much.

What I have noticed is that she has become a chronic fumbler, has started double-grabbing at marks, and her decision-making has noticeably deteriorated. And she's never been an excellent kick.

I'm confident that she should be able to fix those issues, and if so she would immediately go back to being a top-shelf player like in the past... but then I've been saying that for three straight seasons now.

She did win best on ground in a grand final only 2 years ago. Hopefully she can get back to her best.

 

[cmndstab]

She did win best on ground in a grand final only 2 years ago. Hopefully she can get back to her best.

Two years, but three seasons ago. She had a foot injury in that season that she carried through to the grand final, and we were all saying, imagine how good she'll be once she recovers from that foot injury!

Agreed, at her best she's an absolute weapon. Even in her current from she's a good player, but her ceiling is enormous.

 

[dplggr47]

Two years, but three seasons ago. She had a foot injury in that season that she carried through to the grand final, and we were all saying, imagine how good she'll be once she recovers from that foot injury!

Agreed, at her best she's an absolute weapon. Even in her current from she's a good player, but her ceiling is enormous.

Maybe her foot injury put more emphasis on handballing instead of kicking and that's why she had a good season? Kicking has always been her problem.

 

[cmndstab]

Maybe her foot injury put more emphasis on handballing instead of kicking and that's why she had a good season? Kicking has always been her problem.

Interesting theory But I don't think it's right. In 2022 she was going at a kick to handball ratio of 2:1. The last three seasons she has gone at almost exactly 1:1 (453 kicks, 454 handballs).

In her BOG grand final performance she had 22 kicks and 4 handballs.

Her kicking has always been a bit average, but much like Marinoff it was okay because she won lots of hard ball and gained territory, and in particular moved the ball away from the opposition's best players. But lately she has been taking shorter options or looking for switches, and then botching them - both resulting in turnovers, and also reducing her metres gained.

I feel like with Hatchard, the solution might be to make things simple again. Let her be that see ball, get ball kind of player who wins it, exits the stoppage, and then surges it forward. That's what she's best at. When the ball is coming back from defence she should get on the wing to be a marking target, which she's always been great at. And then, if she's going to remain part of our forward line, she should be taught some leading patterns. Just lead at the ball carrier and try to mark it. Simple stuff.

 

[dplggr47]

Interesting theory But I don't think it's right. In 2022 she was going at a kick to handball ratio of 2:1. The last three seasons she has gone at almost exactly 1:1 (453 kicks, 454 handballs).

In her BOG grand final performance she had 22 kicks and 4 handballs.

Her kicking has always been a bit average, but much like Marinoff it was okay because she won lots of hard ball and gained territory, and in particular moved the ball away from the opposition's best players. But lately she has been taking shorter options or looking for switches, and then botching them - both resulting in turnovers, and also reducing her metres gained.

I feel like with Hatchard, the solution might be to make things simple again. Let her be that see ball, get ball kind of player who wins it, exits the stoppage, and then surges it forward. That's what she's best at. When the ball is coming back from defence she should get on the wing to be a marking target, which she's always been great at. And then, if she's going to remain part of our forward line, she should be taught some leading patterns. Just lead at the ball carrier and try to mark it. Simple stuff.

That's how Noffy plays. See ball, get ball onto foot asap. Maybe it's the game plan then. Trying to execute short kicking relies on having a good accurate kick.

 

[cmndstab]

That's how Noffy plays. See ball, get ball onto foot asap. Maybe it's the game plan then. Trying to execute short kicking relies on having a good accurate kick.

Very much so. And it also relies on having players creating movement upfield so that someone is free to receive the ball. The likes of North, Brisbane, even Melbourne when they are up and running, always seem to have a free player to dispose to. Whereas more often than not, we rely on kicking to a contest.

 

[MarcusP2]

Had to laugh at this comment.

"And when the game was on the line in the third quarter, Ebony Marinoff, you know, trying her heart out, not to say they all weren't, but who is that player that is bottom 10 on the ground, that's going to step up and make a difference. Like a Taylah Gatt, like a Piper Window"

Port drafted all of them lol.

 

[Firewalker]

So when that Gemma Bastiani that works for the AFLW site can start to see it it’s surely starting to become as noticeable as the nose on your face

Regenerate on the run? Why Crows could do with 'a bit of fresh air'

The Credit to the Girls team discuss whether one or two big off-season additions could help Adelaide get back to the pinnacle

www.afl.com.au

Marinoff on FiveAA before was very interesting when asked about the Brisbane loss on the weekend, she totally lamented the Crows lack of speed that was shown up and more poignantly pointed out the amount ‘stronger’ athletic profile types Brisbane have compared to the Crows.

It’s not maybe the most ideological thing to bring up and can seem stereotypical when it comes to female athletes as it comes down to a number of complex factors and is far and away not the be-all-and-end-all as different women’s sports and especially Australian Football requires all types but if you looked when the Brisbane players lined up against the Crows players Saturday you can’t not notice that there is a stark difference in the teams ‘builds’ and Marinoff and probably others in the football club have definitely noticed it and found it hard to combat.

 

[Scorpus]

So when that Gemma Bastiani that works for the AFLW site can start to see it it’s surely starting to become as noticeable as the nose on your face

Regenerate on the run? Why Crows could do with 'a bit of fresh air'

The Credit to the Girls team discuss whether one or two big off-season additions could help Adelaide get back to the pinnacle

www.afl.com.au

Marinoff on FiveAA before was very interesting when asked about the Brisbane loss on the weekend, she totally lamented the Crows lack of speed that was shown up and more poignantly pointed out the amount ‘stronger’ athletic profile types Brisbane have compared to the Crows.

It’s not maybe the most ideological thing to bring up and can seem stereotypical when it comes to female athletes as it comes down to a number of complex factors and is far and away not the be-all-and-end-all as different women’s sports and especially Australian Football requires all types but if you looked when the Brisbane players lined up against the Crows players Saturday you can’t not notice that there is a stark difference in the teams ‘builds’ and Marinoff and probably others in the football club have definitely noticed it and found it hard to combat.

IMO we've spent a few too many off seasons stacking our list with mediocre talls that will never get a game, rather than prioritizing a few more prototype athletic players that might need a bit of time.

On a list of 30 if we've got multiple tall backups that we don't want to play, or if we do play get 10 minutes of game time, we'd be better off having someone else on the list

Our small forwards are not exactly the quick goal sneak types either

 

[Firewalker]

IMO we've spent a few too many off seasons stacking our list with mediocre talls that will never get a game, rather than prioritizing a few more prototype athletic players that might need a bit of time.

On a list of 30 if we've got multiple tall backups that we don't want to play, or if we do play get 10 minutes of game time, we'd be better off having someone else on the list

Our small forwards are not exactly the quick goal sneak types either

No they haven’t, Tarlinton is literally the only tall other than Jess Allan coming back that they’ve recruited in years, I would’ve preferred more talls even if mediocre to at least provide some sort of on-ground flexibility up forward. They’ve basically just used all their limited list spots they’ve created over recent years on honest-trier halfbacks/half-forwards or slow midfielders that they play out of position at half-forward anyway.

 

[Scorpus]

No they haven’t, Tarlinton is literally the only tall other than Jess Allan coming back that they’ve recruited in years, I would’ve preferred more talls even if mediocre to at least provide some sort of on-ground flexibility up forward. They’ve basically just used all their limited list spots they’ve created over recent years on honest-trier halfbacks/half-forwards or slow midfielders that they play out of position at half-forward anyway.

They're recruited plenty. Amber Ward, Lisa Whiteley, McKenzie Dowrick, Jasmine Simmons. Luckily Jasmyn Hewett became a premiership player. This year's version is Lily Tarlinton and we've also got Brooke Smith who is no chance getting a game among our other medium/taller defenders.

Some of them aren't that tall but we've used them all as key position types.

We're better off playing smaller with pace than using one of the typical slow trier key position types we seem to recruit.

You're right though that this year in particular we replaced a few of those mediocre talls but still ended up with triers

 

[Caputo]

What we have to hope for is the AFL use the same rules for NGA. There could be a good bit of talent.

2025 SA U18 Girls Academy - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

Crows article from Jul 23

https://www.afc.com.au/news/1386321...talented-youngsters-at-crows-training-session

The top 3 from the Academy maybe 2 years away

South Australians in the 2024 AFL U16 Girls All-Australian team​

Miyu Endersby (Central) – Centre Half-Back
Polly Turner (North) – Centre Half-Forward

 

[Firewalker]

Main List Contract status:
(bold out of contract)

Gould - 2024
Ponter - 2024
Allen - 2024
Munyard - 2024
Kustermann - 2024
Varnhagen- 2024
Levy - 2024
Smith - 2024
Waterhouse - 2024
Henry - 2024
Talinton - 2024
Thompson - 2024
Prowse - 2024
Boileau - 2024
Newman - 2024
Randall- 2025
Biddell - 2025
Charlton - 2025
J. Allan - 2025
Martin - 2025
Ballard - 2025
Tonon - 2025
Mueller - 2025
Goodwin - 2026
Jones- 2027
Kelly- 2027
Marinoff - 2027
Hatchard - 2027
S. Allan- 2027

Rookie List:

Boyle-Carr - 2024


So 16 out of contract, expect announcements/news of who’s departing to come about soon with a quick turnaround with the trade period running Dec 5 - 11 & the draft on the 16th. Minimum 2-year contracts will now be in place for new draftees.

Gould, Prowse, Ponter & Newman obviously the big names out of contract that they want to keep, most resources/time you imagine has been spent trying to keep Prowse & Gould happy and avoiding another club tug-of-war like last year. Whether Carlton are still sniffing around Newman who knows & I doubt whether anyone in the AFC organisation would ever entertain a Ponter trade like I personally would to try to get India Rasheed.

The only rumours floating around so far I saw was speculation around a retirement with Thompson mentioned. Waterhouse, Varnhagen & Smith seem the most likely to be cut, but Harper does sometimes like to keep the unsalvageable. Cutting Tarlinton after 1 year even if they don’t rate her overly high or see a longer-term future for her would be harsh, Allen’s injury riddled year and position in the leadership group probably saves her too. In terms of players choosing to leave I can only really see Levy if again pursuing Basketball or Henry not settling in SA.

 

[cmndstab]

Agreed that Waterhouse, Varnhagen and Smith should be delisted. We probably need to bring in 4-5 new players, and this is the first draft in ages that we've actually got a chance of finding a decent player. I think we also need to go hard for a trade or two, convince some players to come be part of our program.

Assuming nobody else retires or asks for a trade, it probably means saying goodbye to Henry and possibly Tarlinton. Yes, harsh on them but they were only speculative picks anyway. Kustermann and Levy probably get one more chance to show they can be a part of our future.

I wonder if the season slowly moving earlier in the year will have any impact on Boyle-Carr? Is she still playing in Ireland between seasons? Kelly is locked away for three more years, at least.


Martin, Tonon, Mueller and Ballard the obvious ones on the cusp of delisting next year, as well as Randall and Thompson being possibilities to retire.

I'd forgotten that this is coming up soon! Trade period begins on December 5th (with free agency starting the day before). Draft is on December 16th, followed by a supplementary signing period in February.

 

[Firewalker]

Agreed that Waterhouse, Varnhagen and Smith should be delisted. We probably need to bring in 4-5 new players, and this is the first draft in ages that we've actually got a chance of finding a decent player. I think we also need to go hard for a trade or two, convince some players to come be part of our program.

Assuming nobody else retires or asks for a trade, it probably means saying goodbye to Henry and possibly Tarlinton. Yes, harsh on them but they were only speculative picks anyway. Kustermann and Levy probably get one more chance to show they can be a part of our future.

I wonder if the season slowly moving earlier in the year will have any impact on Boyle-Carr? Is she still playing in Ireland between seasons? Kelly is locked away for three more years, at least.


Martin, Tonon, Mueller and Ballard the obvious ones on the cusp of delisting next year, as well as Randall and Thompson being possibilities to retire.

I'd forgotten that this is coming up soon! Trade period begins on December 5th (with free agency starting the day before). Draft is on December 16th, followed by a supplementary signing period in February.

^ me still holding a candle for Tamara Henry off the back of seeing an 80 second video of her highlights on draft night…


I do hope/think Boyle-Carr will give footy a full-time go next year.

Surely Marinoff can actually convince some decent players from interstate to move to the Crows? She always seems to be mates with a lot of them. She certainly sounded like in that FiveAA interview slightly frustrated as she wants different types of players in the team, needs to barge into Clarke’s & Harper’s office and actually demand they do something in the post-season for a change.

 

[Scorpus]

We need to make some actually tough list decisions.

We need to free up a genuine position in our best 23, so I would "retire" Thompson

I would delist both Allen and Varnhagen, they're experienced but I don't see any future for them in the team. I don't see leadership as an issue in the squad.

I would delist Smith and Waterhouse, their ceiling is depth. I would also consider delisting Tarlinton if they have no genuine plans to play her when selected for more than 5 minutes

I would consider delisting Levy, I don't think she will make it. Henry gets a second chance as she was injured this season. I would have delisted Martin but she's contracted, so maybe consider a trade. Kustermann on thin ice but I think she's being played out of position

We need to immediately bring in Boileau and our first round pick this year into the 23, and target a few trades. I'd be targeting 5 to 6 list changes and positional changes within the 23

B S. Allan - Prowse
HB Goodwin - Biddell - ???

R J. Allan - Marinoff - Charlton
C Newman - Hatchard - Kelly

HF Ponter - Randall - Jones
F ??? - Gould

I Boileau - 1st Round - ??? - ??? - ???

At this stage the last four list spots would go to Mueller (defense), Tonon (forward), Ballard (mid), Munyard (forward) and Kustermann (mid/defense) but I wouldn't have any as locks.

We desperately need pace off half back, pace and goal sense in the small forward role, and more athleticism through the midfield

 

[cmndstab]

We need to make some actually tough list decisions.

We need to free up a genuine position in our best 23, so I would "retire" Thompson

I would delist both Allen and Varnhagen, they're experienced but I don't see any future for them in the team. I don't see leadership as an issue in the squad.

I would delist Smith and Waterhouse, their ceiling is depth. I would also consider delisting Tarlinton if they have no genuine plans to play her when selected for more than 5 minutes

I would consider delisting Levy, I don't think she will make it. Henry gets a second chance as she was injured this season. I would have delisted Martin but she's contracted, so maybe consider a trade. Kustermann on thin ice but I think she's being played out of position

I agree with most of this, but what you have described is a 2-3 year project. Thompson, Allen, Varnhagen, Smith, Waterhouse, Tarlinton, Levy, Henry, Martin and Kustermann - that's ten players. We can't replace that many in one season.

I think realistically we should look to bring in 4-6 new players a year. That's a couple of players at the pointy end of the draft, maybe one good trade, and then a few more speculative players in positions of need.