AFLW AFLW/VFLW 2024 - General Discussion

[Oliver G]

A further couple of points on this.
The harshness of the penalty is compounded by two things: (1) the low scoring in AFLW, so the reasonable likelihood of a goal from a 50m penalty is felt much more than in higher scoring AFLM, and (2) the patently poor standard of umpiring in AFLW, means you are almost as likely to get a dud 50m penalty as you are a deserved one.

Absolutely, 25m makes so much more sense, it’s just another in a long line of no brainers that could easily improve the AFLW, that the AFL ignore.

What is becoming more and more clear with each game is that the compressed fixture is actively harming the development of the competition. Not that this is a surprise to anyone (including those at HQ) but just look at the youngest and least experienced teams at the moment, all are struggling with running out games and scoring.

Dogs and Eagles are the youngest teams this week and have scored 1 goal between them. Essendon are coming off 4 games in just over 2 weeks and kicked just 1 goal that wasn’t from a 50 metre penalty.

A compressed fixture with list sizes at 30 is pure insanity and never should’ve even been considered, but I’m glad so many including many in the media calling it out for what it is.

It certainly doesn’t excuse how mind-boggling defensive game style last night, but it can explain how we’re struggling to run out matches.

 

[hutchy31]

Hawks looking annoyingly good in the women’s game as well. They’ll score goals on most teams in the comp, could be a decent shout for the flag.

Richmond got out of jail I thought. They’re pretty good too but can’t see them winning it all.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Absolutely, 25m makes so much more sense, it’s just another in a long line of no brainers that could easily improve the AFLW, that the AFL ignore.

What is becoming more and more clear with each game is that the compressed fixture is actively harming the development of the competition. Not that this is a surprise to anyone (including those at HQ) but just look at the youngest and least experienced teams at the moment, all are struggling with running out games and scoring.

Dogs and Eagles are the youngest teams this week and have scored 1 goal between them. Essendon are coming off 4 games in just over 2 weeks and kicked just 1 goal that wasn’t from a 50 metre penalty.

A compressed fixture with list sizes at 30 is pure insanity and never should’ve even been considered, but I’m glad so many including many in the media calling it out for what it is.

It certainly doesn’t excuse how mind-boggling defensive game style last night, but it can explain how we’re struggling to run out matches.

I really don't understand the harm in starting the season earlier in the season - early August or late July or whatever.

I get that when it might have clear air a few rounds into the season, some of the AFLW teams might already be out of finals contention. But that's happening now anyway with realistically 6-8 teams out of finals contention before the first round is even played and the fact that we won two games surprisingly not really changing the season outlook for our club (though the wins were nice itself).

But the flipside is the fans can be invested in their women's team when their men's team is doing crap, cross-promotion etc.

The main reason I can think of is just clubs just don't want their resources stretched with three senior teams with AFL M reserves teams playing at the same time.

 

[Oliver G]

Hawks looking annoyingly good in the women’s game as well. They’ll score goals on most teams in the comp, could be a decent shout for the flag.

Hate to say it and even though the last 4 expansion teams were given a ridiculous amount of concessions from the AFL, Hawthorn does deserve a lot of credit in the program they've developed. Really good integration between their men's and women's programs and invested heavily in playing AFLW listed players in their VFLW program. That's something I'd love us to do more of.

 

[Oliver G]

I really don't understand the harm in starting the season earlier in the season - early August or late July or whatever.

I get that when it might have clear air a few rounds into the season, some of the AFLW teams might already be out of finals contention. But that's happening now anyway with realistically 6-8 teams out of finals contention before the first round is even played and the fact that we won two games surprisingly not really changing the season outlook for our club (though the wins were nice itself).

But the flipside is the fans can be invested in their women's team when their men's team is doing crap, cross-promotion etc.

The main reason I can think of is just clubs just don't want their resources stretched with three senior teams with AFL M reserves teams playing at the same time.

From what I understand the AFL has always wanted "clean air" for the AFLW, to give it the biggest number of eyes on the game. This is also why they wanted every game to be broadcast on TV and not go down the WBBL avenue of having some games broadcast, with the others streamed.

You could make a case that worked in the early seasons with just 8 teams, but now with a full competition, it's just unsustainable. Look at every other code, they have double headers and games scheduled against men's. There are plenty of benefits of moving to that system, more games at stadiums which generally produce a far better product, broadcasters and clubs are happier with not having to present at two venues and fewer games out in the sticks at say Casey or Frankston.

 

[MYOB]

I think you'll find the season is moved forward next year, with the AFLW finals being played in October.

 

[Oliver G]

I think you'll find the season is moved forward next year, with the AFLW finals being played in October.

It's all but a certainty.

 

[Hoges64]

Off topic and based on my impression only but are the women more prone to knee injury than the men? Has this been proven statistically or is the sample size too small yet?

I certainly don't have stats to back it up, but this HAS to be real, surely. Feels like there's twice the amount of ACLs happening in the women's comp in half as many games.

 

[lachy]

I think you'll find the season is moved forward next year, with the AFLW finals being played in October.

Certainly looks like the way it is heading.

Not sure how it will grow or increase spectators when it will be in direct competition to the AFL men's.

It is a very different product, and in comparison to the men's a substandard product.

When it was in the off season all Aussie Rules to watch was AFLW, had the market to themselves both from a TV, streaming and attendance perspective.

The issue was the heat during the day which surely could have been overcome playing the majority of games at night.

The AFL has really not helped the competition and there is a real issue as to whether it will recover

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[threenewpadlocks]

Certainly looks like the way it is heading.

Not sure how it will grow or increase spectators when it will be in direct competition to the AFL men's.

It is a very different product, and in comparison to the men's a substandard product.

When it was in the off season all Aussie Rules to watch was AFLW, had the market to themselves both from a TV, streaming and attendance perspective.

The issue was the heat during the day which surely could have been overcome playing the majority of games at night.

The AFL has really not helped the competition and there is a real issue as to whether it will recover

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Cross-promotion with the men's AFL competition and the fact that people are already conditioned to treat footy as a winter sport.

I am concerned with lower level women's players themselves physically not being able to go to games as they're the ones playing on the same days at the same time though. They'd currently be contributing a fair chunk to the crowd.

 

[dogwatch]

I certainly don't have stats to back it up, but this HAS to be real, surely. Feels like there's twice the amount of ACLs happening in the women's comp in half as many games.

Probably different physiology leading to higher rate of ACL ruptures.

There are many links (both Australian and US sites) if you care to Google it. Here's just one. It says that sports women are 2-8 times more likely to rupture their ACL than sports men. Anatomy the likely key factor but it needs more research.

Are ACL Tears Really More Common in Women?

Certain injuries—ACL tears, ankle sprains, and stress fractures—are more common in female athletes.

www.yalemedicine.org

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Probably different physiology leading to higher rate of ACL ruptures.

There are many links (both Australian and US sites) if you care to Google it. Here's just one. It says that sports women are 2-8 times more likely to rupture their ACL than sports men. Anatomy the likely key factor but it needs more research.

Are ACL Tears Really More Common in Women?

Certain injuries—ACL tears, ankle sprains, and stress fractures—are more common in female athletes.

www.yalemedicine.org

Probably more like 16 times being forced to play 3 games in 2 weeks in hotter weather.

 

[lachy]

Cross-promotion with the men's AFL competition and the fact that people are already conditioned to treat footy as a winter sport.

I am concerned with lower level women's players themselves physically not being able to go to games as they're the ones playing on the same days at the same time though. They'd currently be contributing a fair chunk to the crowd.

Your point about lower levels is spot on. When it was fully out of season they flocked to the games.

Can't see Cross promotion working, our VFL program would also take from AFLW

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[Oliver G]

When it was fully out of season they flocked to the games.

Can't see Cross promotion working, our VFL program would also take from AFLW

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The move to an Aug-Dec fixture and the subsequent "footy fatigue" has definitely played a part in crowd numbers going down, but charging entry to games has also played a significant part. Here are the median attendance numbers for each H&A season...


*Only games with crowds are counted in this table and only H&A games.

2020 had full capacity until the COVID shutdown so was essentially unaffected by COVID and from 2021 the AFL started charging an entry fee to all games. Crowd numbers this year have stayed largely the same as last year and that's with plenty of games scheduled mid-week.

Players and clubs want the season earlier and with the competition needing to get to at least 17 weeks at some point, it will be unavoidable to have not run parallel to the men's season. From a personnel and financial standpoint it makes sense to have them run parallel as well.

 

[lachy]

The move to an Aug-Dec fixture and the subsequent "footy fatigue" has definitely played a part in crowd numbers going down, but charging entry to games has also played a significant part. Here are the median attendance numbers for each H&A season...

View attachment 2140206
*Only games with crowds are counted in this table and only H&A games.

2020 had full capacity until the COVID shutdown so was essentially unaffected by COVID and from 2021 the AFL started charging an entry fee to all games. Crowd numbers this year have stayed largely the same as last year and that's with plenty of games scheduled mid-week.

Players and clubs want the season earlier and with the competition needing to get to at least 17 weeks at some point, it will be unavoidable to have not run parallel to the men's season. From a personnel and financial standpoint it makes sense to have them run parallel as well.

Not sure it does make sense though.

As you have set out since charging AND changing the season time crowds are really poor to say the least.

Running parallel will make the AFLW the third level down at best with the AFL, VFL or other state based comps clearly more attractive to the vast majority.

Also local football will significantly impact attendance during the regular AFL season.

A lot of coaching and football operations support is also accross the AFL and State based Male competitions, where will the additional resources come from.

The AFL will have to significantly fund the AFLW as there will be little crossover on top of GWS, Gold Coast and state level football.

I could be wrong, but really this is doing nothing more than consigning AFLW to a 3rd rate competition at best 100% relying on revenue raised on the back of the Men's competition which will overtime devalue the AFL product as a whole.

It may be too late now anyway but the off season of the AFL created an opportunity, one where many could attend.

The success of the Matilda's had a massive impact on local women's footy, making it play 3rd fiddle at best in a AFL environment certainly will not reverse a very worrying trend

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[threenewpadlocks]

I could be wrong, but really this is doing nothing more than consigning AFLW to a 3rd rate competition at best 100% relying on revenue raised on the back of the Men's competition which will overtime devalue the AFL product as a whole.

Isn't the same argument that footy in the winter - which has been the case since 1858 and as the seasons goes, part of the social fabric and conditioning of being an Australian - is critical, and by not playing AFLW in winter, it's also being consigned?

 

[lachy]

Isn't the same argument that footy in the winter - which has been the case since 1858 and as the seasons goes, part of the social fabric and conditioning of being an Australian - is critical, and by not playing AFLW in winter, it's also being consigned?

Women's football was always played in the winter, well before AFLW. It was a vibrant competition.

It lacked recognition, struggled to grow at all outside those already involved and rarely drew half decent crowds.

AFLW is the professional version, you want it to grow and thrive in a massively over crowded market, yet it did draw great crowds, got the media attention and crossover interest when it was alone outside the crowded football market in Australia.

Depends on whether the plan is to genuinely grow or be another minor player.

Personally, I would like it to succeed so would prefer it made the off season for AFL, VFL, other state leagues, all other forms of local football Men and Women it's own to give itself its opportunity.

Time will tell I suppose

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[Fossie 32]

Women's football was always played in the winter, well before AFLW. It was a vibrant competition.

It lacked recognition, struggled to grow at all outside those already involved and rarely drew half decent crowds.

AFLW is the professional version, you want it to grow and thrive in a massively over crowded market, yet it did draw great crowds, got the media attention and crossover interest when it was alone outside the crowded football market in Australia.

Depends on whether the plan is to genuinely grow or be another minor player.

Personally, I would like it to succeed so would prefer it made the off season for AFL, VFL, other state leagues, all other forms of local football Men and Women it's own to give itself its opportunity.

Time will tell I suppose

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Interesting idea though temperature could be a challenge. Could have the first round in the bye round of the finals and play some games as curtain raisers in finals - would be great for players to play in front of big crowds

 

[Bulldogs85]

The Western Bulldogs have made two changes for their Thursday night clash against Carlton at IKON Park.

Naomi Ferres and Analea McKee have been recalled at the expense of Zimmorlei Farquharson and Brooke Barwick.

Ferres will start in the back pocket, while McKee is set to start at full-forward.
Elle Bennetts and Rylie Wilcox will control the wings to start, while De Berry and Isabelle Pritchard take the first centre bounce.

The first bounce will be at 7.15pm AEDT tomorrow night, with the match broadcast live via Fox Footy and Kayo Sports.

Score updates will also be available via @BulldogsW across Facebook, X (Twitter) and Instagram.

 

[W W Biscuit]

The Western Bulldogs have made two changes for their Thursday night clash against Carlton at IKON Park.

Naomi Ferres and Analea McKee have been recalled at the expense of Zimmorlei Farquharson and Brooke Barwick.

Ferres will start in the back pocket, while McKee is set to start at full-forward.
Elle Bennetts and Rylie Wilcox will control the wings to start, while De Berry and Isabelle Pritchard take the first centre bounce.

The first bounce will be at 7.15pm AEDT tomorrow night, with the match broadcast live via Fox Footy and Kayo Sports.

Score updates will also be available via @BulldogsW across Facebook, X (Twitter) and Instagram.

I can't say that I like these two changes one bit.

 

[Oliver G]

Interesting selection, I would’ve liked to have kept Farquharson in the 21, she’s definitely shown enough to keep her spot and it’s strange to see her omitted. Happy to see McKee come in though, having McFarlane, McKee and Weston-Turner all in the same side definitely suggests we plan to play a more attacking style this week. That surely also means we’ll have at least 2 key talls inside 50 at all times and allow Hartwig and Woodley to crumb.

Having Weston-Turner as the sole key tall was doing nobody any favours, a lot of pressure on someone so young and not really letting her develop naturally without being the number 1 forward.

Tackling pressure and an attacking style is what I think we’d all like to see tomorrow night, who cares if we lose by 40 points, look at the Brisbane game, we got smashed around the ground but we took the game on and actually scored at a decent rate when we got it inside.

Here’s how we match up against Carlton…

Western Bulldogs / Carlton - R8 2024 - Princes Park

Avg. Career Games: 29.8 / 37.0
Median Career Games: 28 / 35

1-10 Games Experience: 5 / 1
11-30 Games Experience: 6 / 9
31-49 Games Experience: 6 / 5
50+ Games Experience: 4 / 6

Avg. Age: 23.3 / 25.8

Under 21 Years Old: 6 / 4
Aged 21-24 Years Old: 10 / 4
Over 25 Years Old: 5 / 10

 

[gordo2016]

Why bother getting Zimmie down from Brisbane if you aren't going to play her? Was good against Norf, has talent and deserves more opportunities.And if we kick a soccer score tonight and Tam says after the game "we were happy with the game looks," I will spew up.

 

[dogwatch]

From afar … these weekly changes look a bit like scheduled rotations and player management. More that than players being picked or dropped on form.

Might make sense with a young list and a compressed fixture. Otherwise some of the selections are hard to explain.

Is that what’s going on?

 

[Foxman98]

Was thinking about going tonight but then just remembered how we apparently want to play and think I might stick to the couch

Never thought I'd say this but get us Dannie

 

[Hoges64]

From afar … these weekly changes look a bit like scheduled rotations and player management. More that than players being picked or dropped on form.

Might make sense with a young list and a compressed fixture. Otherwise some of the selections are hard to explain.

Is that what’s going on?

That was my immediate thought too. Were they listed as omitted or (wo)managed?