Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

[Samsquanch]

The AFL won't do this without a lot more outrage and third parties (e.g more media testimonies) keeping them to account.

The AFL always acts in it's own self interest. Gil would have wished Essendons drug cheating away had it not been for ASADA.

I saw Gil and several other AFL people having a great time celebrating hard at Squires Loft on the day the Swiss court upheld the * decision. I suspect that was the day Gil knew that Vlad was done for. Vlad himself was not there.

 

[Kangas_11]

I would imagine most of us NM supporters are used to getting farrrrked over but this one feels like I’ve been bent over and run through by a semi.

 

[speedy]

Bull s**t!

Its high time this woke BS, where untested allegation is good enough to end someone's career stops.
If Clarko denies the allegations and their is no corroborating evidence then that's the end of it.
By allowing the court of public Opinion (twitter) to decide someone's fate, is completely open to false allegations to be made from anyone with an axe to grind.
Next thing we'll have people being denounced and stormtroopers in the middle of the night.

I don’t know if anyone watched the Depp v heard defamation case (I mean really watched it fully) but it was an eye opener for me. You cannot trust what the media reports or even someones version of events unless you hear it directly from their mouths and under close scrutiny.

 

[Event Horizon]

There's a huge amount to play out in this but fundamentally if our indigenous players are comfortable with Clarko, he'll coach us imo.

I’d like to think so. To be honest, other than the abortion part, which is obviously a very serious matter, the rest Is very subjective and can be dealt with once the investigation is complete. Provided the abortion story can be refuted using a real and genuine explanation and/or evidence, the rest would be ultimately up to our indigenous players and I have a feeling that Clarko is genuinely passionate about cultural diversity and they should be able to connect with him.

I certainly hope you’re correct here


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[CharlieMortdecai]

Hawthorn house Dayle Garlett with Luke Hodge | Sporting News Australia

Hawthorn house Dayle Garlett with Luke Hodge

www.sportingnews.com

This isn’t a bad thing to house a trouble kid with senior player/role model is it?

Was praised at the time when it happened?




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But nothing like what is being alleged. Coming over from Perth after being drafted stayed with Hodge for a week

 

[Horace]

No s**t. He’s supposed to be our coach next year. This is going to impact the future of our club.

What’s Hawthorn facing?

It might pay to wait and see what the AFL Review produces. Remember it will be independent and headed by a Kings Counsel. These people are not going to come up with something that gets Hawthorn off the hook, because they and the AFL wants it to.

 

[Event Horizon]

Its an absolute witch hunt. It’s completely irresponsible and doesn’t have an ounce of integrity that a report of this magnitude to not interview the accused. Innocent until proven guilty but unfortunately the names are now tarnished whatever the outcome.

Not if our own indigenous players on top of Burgoyne and Rioli are supporting him


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[marklovesbeer]

The allegations in the article are obviously sickening and a difficult read - compelling a player's partner to have an abortion is frankly inhumane stuff, and the cultish cutting-off of contact described isn't much better. Any potential racial aspect intensifies the wrong (as has been discussed in the thread already, at minimum there are seriously uncomfortable overtones to a club treating Indigenous players this way), but it'd still be highly distressing even if ethnicity weren't a factor. If the allegations are remotely substantiated then, amongst other things, Clarkson continuing to become our senior coach is completely untenable.

Stepping back to allow the investigation to take place is the right thing for the club. Given Clarkson has outright denied any wrongdoing, we're clearly dealing with competing and (probably) sharply opposing versions of events, and so it's only fair he has the opportunity to present his position on these matters, and a genuine and thorough process undergone to determine (as best as possible) the truth of the matter before any further action is taken.

But the cavalcade of "innocent until proven guilty" posts here ignore fundamental differences, both between being found guilty and being accused, and between the presumption of innocence and believing someone innocent. Anyone accused of something, especially as heinous as this, should be afforded every capacity to respond, and where applicable refute the allegations, without the accusation being taken as establishing their guilt - but to raise an accusation is how the question of someone's guilt is enlivened in the first place, and it's not unreasonable to then evaluate the allegations at face value, and form provisional opinions based on what's been presented. (It's doubly galling that some of the same people leaning on "innocent until proven guilty" re: Clarkson are only too happy to come to conclusions regarding the families concerned or the journalist reporting on it...)

As others have said, it's not impossible that some of the things reported are extremely uncharitable interpretations of ordinary interactions between staff and players: as public-facing organisations in a high-paying performance industry, all clubs would impose some restrictions on all players in terms of both fitness/getting the most out of themselves on-field, and not compromising either integrity or (more nebulously) the club's image, and likely the scope for that would be covered in their playing contracts. But even with that, there's a discussion to be had about what the appropriate boundaries for that are - notwithstanding all of the above, an employer has no business intervening in their employees' relationship and life decisions beyond the workplace, which is exactly what even a kinder angle on the 'milder' accusations in the article involves (dictating terms for living arrangements at uninvited housecalls, for example). So, unless the allegations are wholly baseless, or so overstated as to effectively be unfounded, we're still looking at some incredibly unsavoury behaviour of a kind that would call into question our next coach's suitability for the position he's being appointed to.

It's an awful, ugly situation for everyone concerned - and through the sheer misfortune of timing, that now includes the North Melbourne Football Club as well. No doubt every relevant party at the club will be involved in discussions about next steps and contingency options, and we can only hope the investigation is as pure and as detailed as it needs to be to deliver us with the basic facts we need to make the right decision in the circumstances about Clarkson's future with us.

Very well written.
Thanks.

 

[kool kangas]

Patch has experience now.

He has stated that he's not interested in being head coach however another to consider would be Leppitsch. l know he is part of the Pies coaching panel however maybe he could be enticed into taking the job if Clarko has to remove himself from the coaching role...l hope this isnt the case though..

 

[danj]

The allegations in the article are obviously sickening and a difficult read - compelling a player's partner to have an abortion is frankly inhumane stuff, and the cultish cutting-off of contact described isn't much better. Any potential racial aspect intensifies the wrong (as has been discussed in the thread already, at minimum there are seriously uncomfortable overtones to a club treating Indigenous players this way), but it'd still be highly distressing even if ethnicity weren't a factor. If the allegations are remotely substantiated then, amongst other things, Clarkson continuing to become our senior coach is completely untenable.

Stepping back to allow the investigation to take place is the right thing for the club. Given Clarkson has outright denied any wrongdoing, we're clearly dealing with competing and (probably) sharply opposing versions of events, and so it's only fair he has the opportunity to present his position on these matters, and a genuine and thorough process undergone to determine (as best as possible) the truth of the matter before any further action is taken.

But the cavalcade of "innocent until proven guilty" posts here ignore fundamental differences, both between being found guilty and being accused, and between the presumption of innocence and believing someone innocent. Anyone accused of something, especially as heinous as this, should be afforded every capacity to respond, and where applicable refute the allegations, without the accusation being taken as establishing their guilt - but to raise an accusation is how the question of someone's guilt is enlivened in the first place, and it's not unreasonable to then evaluate the allegations at face value, and form provisional opinions based on what's been presented. (It's doubly galling that some of the same people leaning on "innocent until proven guilty" re: Clarkson are only too happy to come to conclusions regarding the families concerned or the journalist reporting on it...)

As others have said, it's not impossible that some of the things reported are extremely uncharitable interpretations of ordinary interactions between staff and players: as public-facing organisations in a high-paying performance industry, all clubs would impose some restrictions on all players in terms of both fitness/getting the most out of themselves on-field, and not compromising either integrity or (more nebulously) the club's image, and likely the scope for that would be covered in their playing contracts. But even with that, there's a discussion to be had about what the appropriate boundaries for that are - notwithstanding all of the above, an employer has no business intervening in their employees' relationship and life decisions beyond the workplace, which is exactly what even a kinder angle on the 'milder' accusations in the article involves (dictating terms for living arrangements at uninvited housecalls, for example). So, unless the allegations are wholly baseless, or so overstated as to effectively be unfounded, we're still looking at some incredibly unsavoury behaviour of a kind that would call into question our next coach's suitability for the position he's being appointed to.

It's an awful, ugly situation for everyone concerned - and through the sheer misfortune of timing, that now includes the North Melbourne Football Club as well. No doubt every relevant party at the club will be involved in discussions about next steps and contingency options, and we can only hope the investigation is as pure and as detailed as it needs to be to deliver us with the basic facts we need to make the right decision in the circumstances about Clarkson's future with us.

I didn't read the article as a woman being 'compelled to have an abortion'

 

[Horace]

What’s Mr Kennett saying normally has an opinion on everything, or has he gone quiet?

We can only hope.

 

[Event Horizon]

Let’s all laugh together. The afl knew about the report and gave us the PP with the caveat of needing to trade them.

And it was basically Brad Scott’s call, the bloke who is largely responsible for that mess


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[gomfs]

If this happened it would
of gotten out to other players in the club.
They’d of been emotional at the very least.

I would edit to say if it had happened “as reported” then the players would have been miserable and emotional. Surely welfare officers, development coaches and leaders would have noticed and checked up.
Maybe, as others have said ( and as the late Queen said) recollections may differ.
Need to see and hear all the evidence before a decision is made.
I’m not saying anything has been made up but emotional conversations can be misconstrued and seem to be worse with hindsight.
It’s just hard to imagine that coaches in this day and age ( last 30 years) would tell players to abort children .

 

[Mordecai]

Very well written.
Thanks.

Well written but I'm not sure it's quite so binary.

 

[gomfs]

The timing of all this is incredibly suspect.

1. Hawthorn’s internal investigation into racist culture at their club submitted to AFL (conveniently during the Preliminary finals series and TV rights deal).
2. Nothing in that report leaked to the public while the multi-billion dollar TV rights deals ink is drying and finals footy is in motion. Good chance this report will become ‘news’ straight after the GF.
3. Grand Final week arrives and a story about alleged incidents from up to 12 years ago that allegedly no-one had ever heard about previously surfaces (conveniently of all weeks) smack-bang in the middle of GF week and making HFC’s report basically invisible for now.
4. The person who was in charge of the club at that time, allegedly corrupt, allegedly hated their HC and allegedly was pretty relaxed about his own racist views is holidaying overseas and is unavailable for comment, yet his former Head Coach and former Assistant Coach are thrown under the bus and left to be the scapegoats for all of Hawthorns alleged racism problems.

Connect the dots.

I thought it was Newbold who was president at the time ?

 

[danj]

I'd guess a discussion around abortion happened but not in the context of "get it done or you're out". It's something that's suggested as an option to people all the time who are looking at someone's circumstances for bringing up a child and think this might be a potential good option for them based on circumstances.

Personally, I don't like to see this presented as an option to anyone but it's a legal medical procedure in this country as it stands.

It is a legit medical procedure and women's right to have control over her own body, we as men can have as many opinions as we want about it but ultimately it is a woman's choice and we have to respect that choice, whichever way it goes.

 

[Spud11]

This club is cursed. We just can’t look forward to anything or have anything good. Ever.
Always struggling. Always toiling. And if things do happen to start finally looking ‘up’, we’re blindsided by something beyond any of our control, beyond any of the club’s doing and whatever optimism we had gets monumentally f****d.

I live interstate and was considering flying across for a few matches next year, with the groundswell of excitement building and players wanting to come to us. And those days watching the Clarko thread, thinking we had him, then we didn’t, did, didn’t, then did- that was like a great dream that actually came true.

So maybe the dream not only hasn’t come true, but turned into a nightmare. Of course. Not only is it not as good as we were expecting, but a thousand times worse than we could have imagined.

F*** this.

Feeling good about this club is like having a picnic on a train track.

If Clarkson is gone, I’m pretty much done with footy. I can’t help it, that’s how I feel. Since 2002 this has been a toxic relationship.

 

[danj]

I would edit to say if it had happened “as reported” then the players would have been miserable and emotional. Surely welfare officers, development coaches and leaders would have noticed and checked up.
Maybe, as others have said ( and as the late Queen said) recollections may differ.
Need to see and hear all the evidence before a decision is made.
I’m not saying anything has been made up but emotional conversations can be misconstrued and seem to be worse with hindsight.
It’s just hard to imagine that coaches in this day and age ( last 30 years) would tell players to abort children .

Dude, go back to school, children cannot be aborted only foetuses

 

[Event Horizon]

Regardless of the outcome Clarko can’t coach us, it really is that simple.

The stigma alone of even being accused of racism towards indigenous people is enough.

Nothing and no one will change that, Clarko is now damaged goods in the Court of Public opinion.

Who cares about public opinion? That’s one good PR manager away from be being fixed over a period of a couple of months. It’s more about our own indigenous players. If they are comfortable to play under him, he coaches us.


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[Horace]

He has stated that he's not interested in being head coach however another to consider would be Leppitsch. l know he is part of the Pies coaching panel however maybe he could be enticed into taking the job if Clarko has to remove himself from the coaching role...l hope this isnt the case though..

I heard Alistair Lynch interviewed on SEN yesterday. While he thinks Leppitsch would be an ideal candidate for a senior role again, Leppitsch has told him he is not interested as he is very happy working at the Pies with his old teammate McRae.

 

[Event Horizon]

Ten years ago I saw a boss sent to HR for sexual harassment after being reported by my coworker who is 20 years younger than him. She had been on a weight loss journey that she was very open about and is happily married. One day she rewarded herself by buying a new dress in a smaller size and wore it to work, we all fussed over her and told her she was doing great. My boss told her that she looked very nice in her new dress, that was what got him reported by her. My old school boss hadn't understood that things can be interpreted in a different way and thought he could be "mates" with his staff, my coworker couldn't understand why a superior would be that familiar with her. I saw him personally outside of work due to mutual hobbies and he had never once tried to get on me, she didn't know him well enough to understand what his intentions were. I guess i just brought this up because the clarko stuff reminded me of that, sometimes people can hurt others even if their intentions are decent, we learn over time

It’s very strange that this harmless comment was enough to get him reported.


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[Grogg]

I think it bears repeating that the Hawthorn report was never intended to be a comprehensive review of total operations.

My understanding is that the focus of the review was to be totally from the perspective of the first nations players and families and the first nations only. I think the goal was to improve cultural awareness between the club and players with an aim to improve interactions in future. My opinion, though probably an unpopular one, is their intentions were genuine. Unfortunately things have turned out a little worse than expected and the reality of the gulf between the two groups is a lot bigger than expected.

Anywho, that would explain the reasoning behind the obviously one sided review.

 

[Event Horizon]

This club is cursed. We just can’t look forward to anything or have anything good. Ever.
Always struggling. Always toiling. And if things do happen to start finally looking ‘up’, we’re blindsided by something beyond any of our control, beyond any of the club’s doing and whatever optimism we had gets monumentally f****d.

I live interstate and was considering flying across for a few matches next year, with the groundswell of excitement building and players wanting to come to us.

If Clarkson is gone, I’m pretty much done with footy. I can’t help it, that’s how I feel. Since 2002 this has been a toxic relationship.

I feel the same way mate


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[Merlin007]

It might pay to wait and see what the AFL Review produces. Remember it will be independent and headed by a Kings Counsel. These people are not going to come up with something that gets Hawthorn off the hook, because they and the AFL wants it to.

This ^. All the conspiracy theories can take a holiday - senior counsel’s aren’t in the habit of sweeping things under the carpet. The review will be done without fear, favour or bias

 

[buttox]

'Deeply distressed' Fagan denies Hawks racism allegations

Brisbane coach Chris Fagan categorically denies the allegations of mistreatment of Hawthorn's Indigenous players during his time at the club

www.afl.com.au