Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

[Mixed Results]

I'm surprised how behind Australia seems to be in relation to some other countries when it comes to allegations like this.

It's really hard for victims of abuse to step forward, especially when everyone is so quick to jump up and attack the victim's character and demand proof. I agree that there is an element of innocent until proven guilty and that there is also a history of false accusations that need to be considered, but based on what we've heard so far it is more likely than not that Clarkson is guilty.

Based on how the last 24 hours have unfolded, I'm assuming that these investigations will uncover insufficient evidence and life will go on. There will never be proof of these actions and if the AFL and North Melbourne wish to bury them then they will succeed quite easily. The other side of that coin is that there will never be evidence presented that Clarkson is innocent. These allegations have permanently clouded his reputation whether they are true or not.

Clarkson may be one of the greatest coaches of all time, but I don't know if his value offsets the fact that the playing group and supporters will never again be fully united and in full support of him. There is now a massive amount of risk in signing him up for a five-year contract when he may have permanently lost the respect of any present and future players.

There's also the risk on a five-year deal that other allegations may surface. We have a clear opportunity to separate ourselves right now and I think based on what's been presented it is the best option for us.

 

[TheKanga]

The get clarko threads seem so long ago now

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

If I knew my four time premiership coach was advising fellow players to abort babies, yeah I probably would.

So maybe he doesn't know, but he also knows it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[BigRedRoo]

I’m not saying it’s right but if people recall a certain Attorney General had to step down because of a simple interview on a certain tv show followed by a letter penned by a deceased person who’s allegations could not be investigated.
No criminal charges were laid at all yet the guy had to step down.

It’s not right at all but it’s what happens all the time when allegations are made about people.

A friend of mine lost his career (well he had to walk away) after he was accused by 2 girls of abuse.
It was found after a year that they lied categorically about the abuse, they claimed he conducted this abuse on camps, at school etc and came up with dates it occurred.
He wasn’t in attendance at the camps, wasn’t at school on multiple occasions they claimed as those dates it occurred, no charges were ever laid and one of the girls finally admitted they both lied.
The guy couldn’t go to work, he tried but the constant whispers, looks and even name calling by students forced him out.
He was innocent, the girls admitted to lying yet still people accused him of being a (insert word here).

I'm convinced if you are falsely accused your first and only option is to Sue the accuser.
Immediately demand a retraction and apology, or prepare for Shock and Awe in the courts. Making it clear your intent will be to break the person financially.
Unless you do this, you can be subjected to all sorts of processes and inquiries which start out from the premises of the Victim must be believed and privacy and anonymity are used as a cloaking device that allows the justification of any adverse findings against you.

The biggest issue we have here is we don't know who are the accusers and without that knowledge we can't put any context to the allegations.
In the current case are the complainants young indigenous boys with a string of off field issues and a club doing its best to guide them into becoming professional athletes?
Or is it a case of a win at all costs club ready to chew up and spit out anyone in their quest for glory regardless of the toll?

Being able to remain anonymous while making serious allegations, in my view invites false or exaggerated claims, which can be repeated in the press without context and presented in the worst possible light. Being anonymous means your claims will never truly be placed under scrutiny.

 

[iSmack]

Some facts.

- The ABC report that shocked all of us was an interview of the family of 3 former players conducted by ABC Sport

- Earlier this month, the Hawks engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former indigenous players and staff to learn more about there experience. The completed report highlighted historical allegations and was forwarded to the AFL integrity unit by the Hawks.


Two perspectives…….

One completed by a professional consultancy that specialises in indigenous programs. In terms of scope…..current, former players and staff were interviewed. It is wide reaching and I would imagine capture objectively the good, the bad and the ugly.

The second, by an ABC sports journalist who interviewed three former players and there families.

The ABC report while I’m sure contains factual content that will line up with the report submitted by the consultancy, It does also contain sensationalist views and interpretations of he said she said that won’t stand in a court of law.


In short….I doubt the outcome for both Clarkson and Fagen will be as bad as (being forced to step down) or as good to get off scott free….

Now…my personal opinion. As a person of colour, and a die hard north fan who has never met Clarkson or Fagen, to mark them as racist of the back of an ABC sport report is irresponsible…..

Do I think Clarkson and Fagen are ruthless pricks that operate beyond boundaries to win…..most definitely. Highly intuitive but Insensitive….quite possibly….racist….no…


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[BigRedRoo]

Jeff on the findings of the report “ Oh s**t, Hi Qantas I need to book a flight will only have hand luggage I am in a hurry”Leadership.Spoken in the Sam Newman Jeff voice

Ok not a fan of Jeff, but can we please stop with the Kennett bashing?
He wasn't at the club during the time of these alleged incidents.

Some facts.

- The ABC report that shocked all of us was an interview of the family of 3 former players conducted by ABC Sport

- Earlier this month, the Hawks engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former indigenous players and staff to learn more about there experience. The completed report highlighted historical allegations and was forwarded to the AFL integrity unit by the Hawks.


Two perspectives…….

One completed by a professional consultancy that specialises in indigenous programs. In terms of scope…..current, former players and staff were interviewed. It is wide reaching and I would imagine capture objectively the good, the bad and the ugly.

The second, by an ABC sports journalist who interviewed three former players and there families.

The ABC report while I’m sure contains factual content that will line up with the report submitted by the consultancy, It does also contain sensationalist views and interpretations of he said she said that won’t stand in a court of law.


In short….I doubt the outcome for both Clarkson and Fagen will be as bad as (being forced to step down) or as good to get off scott free….

Now…my personal opinion. As a person of colour, and a die hard north fan who has never met Clarkson or Fagen, to mark them as racist of the back of an ABC sport report is irresponsible…..

Do I think Clarkson and Fagen are ruthless pricks that operate beyond boundaries to win…..most definitely. Highly intuitive but Insensitive….quite possibly….racist….no…


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Thank you for your inciteful and well grounded post.

 

[TheKanga]

Some facts.

- The ABC report that shocked all of us was an interview of the family of 3 former players conducted by ABC Sport

- Earlier this month, the Hawks engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former indigenous players and staff to learn more about there experience. The completed report highlighted historical allegations and was forwarded to the AFL integrity unit by the Hawks.


Two perspectives…….

One completed by a professional consultancy that specialises in indigenous programs. In terms of scope…..current, former players and staff were interviewed. It is wide reaching and I would imagine capture objectively the good, the bad and the ugly.

The second, by an ABC sports journalist who interviewed three former players and there families.

The ABC report while I’m sure contains factual content that will line up with the report submitted by the consultancy, It does also contain sensationalist views and interpretations of he said she said that won’t stand in a court of law.


In short….I doubt the outcome for both Clarkson and Fagen will be as bad as (being forced to step down) or as good to get off scott free….

Now…my personal opinion. As a person of colour, and a die hard north fan who has never met Clarkson or Fagen, to mark them as racist of the back of an ABC sport report is irresponsible…..

Do I think Clarkson and Fagen are ruthless pricks that operate beyond boundaries to win…..most definitely. Highly intuitive but Insensitive….quite possibly….racist….no…


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I really don't believe they are racist.
It goes against what most people would say of their character.

 

[Nutjob]

Its at the stage where the allegations are so explosive Clarko, Fagan and Burt are going to have to disclose some real personal s**t about what happened because context is so desperately needed. It’s bloody sad.

As it stands we’re talking about industry wide implications in a football sense with shockwaves already being felt and will be felt.
And yes these footballers deserve to be heard and have been heard.
It’s now on the accused to be allowed due process to respond. All 3 can’t not have the opportunity to salvage their reputations.


I have slept on this overnight and have formed the opinion that I can’t see how Clarkson survives this. Even if he’s vindicated and cleared the one thing he needs is the respect and support of the playing group who for as long as I can remember are unprofessional, lazy, not motivated and switch off at any point in time. They meander their way through their careers. Bare minimum s**t.

If Clarko was to come in and be the alpha he needed to get total buy in from the get go. Get on the bus as he said. I just can’t see how with Nortn at it’s lowest ebb he’s gonna be able to turn things around.

If he is ‘cleared and vindicated’ he doesn’t lose any respect.


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[Kangaroo Cat]

Not that irregular.

Happened at my partner's workplace too. A female staff member had her presentation at a conference recorded so everyone could critique it. She has confidence issues when speaking in front of people and wants to improve. A senior male staff member said "you looked good up there, very professional". She took it the wrong way and after speaking to another colleague they decided to report him. He had to have a sit down and was educated by HR.

If i worked in an office setting still I'd just use pre-approved comments written on palm cards. If anyone asked me a question I'd pull one out and say "In case of an investigation by the Australian Federal Police or similar government agency, i do not have any involvement with this group or with the people in it, i do not know how I am here, probably hired by a third party. I do not support any actions by members of this group unless they are deemed acceptable by a diverse independent body at the present date."

I got reported to HR myself for something i said during a co-workers bday drinks one weekend, i was a manager at the time and two of the guys in my department were ribbing me, i was quite drunk and said ease up or ill fire you. I was reported to HR by both of them and told i shouldn't go to social functions any more. My prior personal relationship with both was very good before that. For one of them i was the only one to show up for their bday, the other had once left a hand written note at my desk to say i looked very pretty that day. To this day i can't understand why they reported me but it made work very awkward and I certainly never socalized again. I had also made the mistake of thinking i could "josh around" with people. We all have to be very careful if we have any type of authority.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

How do you know the player hadn’t received that advice and the coaches were merely helping the player act on that advice??? Was this done in moments where the player reached out in a state of panic, a situation of significant gravity and asked for help? Should the coaches have just said no we can’t help you, leave them in a dangerous or confronting situation until they can get the club psych to come or their non existent indigenous liaison officer can get there and pull you out of a potentially toxic or dangerous situation? Again wait until the facts from all sides are shared. I’m not sitting on one side or the other but it’s too easy to be self righteous without understanding full context. There is no doubt enormous growth can come from this in how this is handled in future but let’s hold off on the guillotine until we hear the facts. It may still be beheading worthy but let’s get the facts first.

If they were acting on the advice of psychologists, welfare officers or similar no doubt that will come out in the wash.
But I fundamentally disagree that the club should be involving itself in matters of pregnancy, intimate relationships or familial relationships. Get them help and support, don't encourage people to cut themselves off from others to the point where you're changing their SIM card, or discussing terminations.
A few people have mentioned real and hypothetical situations involving brothers and parents advising men to get out of toxic relationships or reconsider pregnancy. But a football coach is not your family, no matter how unique you consider the employment relationship.

 

[Roosurgence]

What needs to be done now is to actually interview every Hawthorn player on the list at that time. Is this behaviour that other players were subjected to?

People seem very quick to play the race card one this one, given that it was only indigenous players interviewed.

Maybe the behaviour (if true) extended to other players on the list? Are we dealing with what would essentially be racist behaviour or widespread behaviour from what are essentially shit humans.

These type of situations make me sad, because whether we like it or not, a lot of the time they become more about agendas than dealing with the issue itself.

 

[Forever North]

Saturday is my 37th grand final that I will be in attendance. I’m lucky to have worked at the G for most of them, getting paid to watch the GF is a privilege. It’s my favourite day of the year, the crowds, the buzz, the atmosphere is awesome. The past 24 hours have really floored me so much that I really can’t be bothered being there. This story has sickened me to the core. Can shit like this actually happen in modern day Australia?, are people that desperate to ‘win’ at any cost?, are people so off their heads that they will say and do anything to seek vengeance?, do ’journo’s‘ have any sense of standards and ethics that they abide by nowadays?, is the AFL that morally bankrupt that any bad news just gets the usual nudge/wink swept under the carpet treatment?…(like this will probably do again). This is high stakes stuff for all involved and I sincerely hope the real facts and truth come out, not someone’s ’version’ of the truth or someone’s well crafted PR version. And if and when it does swift and meaningful action is taken. Sick to death of the AFL machine creating convenient outcomes.
Throughout my life sport, especially footy and soccer have been my escapes from the stresses life. So hard following North at the moment. Can’t seem to get out of this never ending cycle of bad luck and bad news afflicting our club.

 

[Roosurgence]

I got reported to HR myself for something i said during a co-workers bday drinks one weekend, i was a manager at the time and two of the guys in my department were ribbing me, i was quite drunk and said ease up or ill fire you. I was reported to HR by both of them and told i shouldn't go to social functions any more. My prior personal relationship with both was very good before that. For one of them i was the only one to show up for their bday, the other had once left a hand written note at my desk to say i looked very pretty that day. To this day i can't understand why they reported me but it made work very awkward and I certainly never socalized again. I had also made the mistake of thinking i could "josh around" with people. We all have to be very careful if we have any type of authority.

Unfortunately society is turning into a blame culture. It’s easier to blame someone else than take responsibility for your own life.

 

[Ashley B]

I would have thought regardless if Jeff was there at the time he would be leading his Club in its hour of need. He would have known the Hawk report was coming out and if he didn’t that’s poor too. I see and hear this often in big corporate world that leaders extricate themselves from official duties when all is not well. I would have thought a good leader would not do that, but that’s just me,everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[for3sh0ck]

If he is ‘cleared and vindicated’ he doesn’t lose any respect.


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Could be seen as positive. Leading by example in how they (The playing group) need to fight through adversity

 

[TruRoos7]

If he is ‘cleared and vindicated’ he doesn’t lose any respect.


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I’m sorry but he will, there will be an element in society that will still believe that he did it and it’s just a cover up especially being a white man doing this to indigenous people.

Sponsors will think carefully about renewing deals, they don’t want any negative publicity.

As I said before mud sticks regardless of the amount of water used to dilute it and the stain never goes away.

 

[Gasometer]

And we do not need to give up in this club. It is not us , but Hawthorn who must deal with this whatever the outcome.

For us it is merely a setback in my opinion. If Clarkson is unable to coach our club, there are plenty of other people who will be eager to step into the position. Who knows, it may be someone better equipped, it may be someone with the same approach as McRae at the Pies.

We will be okay.

We get that List set up the next two years the second half of this decade is going to be the best.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

I’m sorry but he will, there will be an element in society that will still believe that he did it and it’s just a cover up especially being a white man doing this to indigenous people.

Sponsors will think carefully about renewing deals, they don’t want any negative publicity.

As I said before mud sticks regardless of the amount of water used to dilute it and the stain never goes away.

It goes both ways. On the flip side you risk losing supporters, players, sponsors etc. if you fail to show any support to the individual (if he is cleared of any wrong doing).

You can't please everyone...no matter what the outcome is.

 

[scottywiper]

What needs to be done now is to actually interview every Hawthorn player on the list at that time. Is this behaviour that other players were subjected to?

People seem very quick to play the race card one this one, given that it was only indigenous players interviewed.

Maybe the behaviour (if true) extended to other players on the list? Are we dealing with what would essentially be racist behaviour or widespread behaviour from what are essentially s**t humans.

These type of situations make me sad, because whether we like it or not, a lot of the time they become more about agendas than dealing with the issue itself.

I would expect Pies would have had some very candid conversations with players like Swan, Shaw and now De Goey.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

It’s weird. This toxic workplace also was the most successful workplace in Australian sport. Which makes we wonder when I hear Mitchell, Burgoyne, Lewis and Hodge say they knew nothing about it, they are either terrible leaders who had no understanding of the playing group or they are great liars. I would imagine Jack Ziebell would be across most of the issues the players are going through. Swallow certainly would have. The fact none of the hawks leaders knew about these things is perplexing.

You say that as if toxic workplaces can't also be successful. But maybe these people were simply chewed up and spit out by a system geared towards success at the expense of individuals?
How many young men ( historically, latterly women too) have been burnt out and used by the millionaires factory that is Macquarie?
The view has been repeatedly expressed in this thread that this could all be the result of ill-conceived good intentions and paternalism. It is also possible that it was driven by nothing more than the objective of on-field success, without a second thought to individual humans.

 

[Val Keating]

Is this correct? I thought he lived with Hodge for one week when he first arrived in Melbourne.
One, I can't believe Hawthorn drafted him thinking from the get-go he needed to straighten out and amend his lifestyle.
Two, they didn’t give it much of a go if their effort was giving him a week with Hodge immediately upon arrival.

He was in trouble wayyy before he was drafted. Really bad egg. Could turn it around like A. Krakouer but I’m not convinced.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Its at the stage where the allegations are so explosive Clarko, Fagan and Burt are going to have to disclose some real personal s**t about what happened because context is so desperately needed. It’s bloody sad.

As it stands we’re talking about industry wide implications in a football sense with shockwaves already being felt and will be felt.
And yes these footballers deserve to be heard and have been heard.
It’s now on the accused to be allowed due process to respond. All 3 can’t not have the opportunity to salvage their reputations.

I absolutely agree with all that, and my guess at how that will happen is here:

Coach - Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

Just from a practical point of view, who will be North's coach if not Clarkson? I assume the club is working hard to find a potential plan b, seeing we didn't have one. I joked around about Brad Scott yesterday, but seeing this could drag out for months, who do you seriously think we are talking...

www.bigfooty.com

I have slept on this overnight and have formed the opinion that I can’t see how Clarkson survives this. Even if he’s vindicated and cleared the one thing he needs is the respect and support of the playing group who for as long as I can remember are unprofessional, lazy, not motivated and switch off at any point in time. They meander their way through their careers. Bare minimum s**t.

If Clarko was to come in and be the alpha he needed to get total buy in from the get go. Get on the bus as he said. I just can’t see how with Nortn at it’s lowest ebb he’s gonna be able to turn things around.

A few things:

• Clarko isn't Eddie McGuire. That's another way of saying that I don't think we'll see a repeat of the Do Better saga. Clarko didn't become the most successful coach in the modern game without learning how to push people's buttons. He's a gifted communicator, he would have pretty high emotional intelligence, and he understands the politics required to succeed in the AFL industry more than just about anyone. He'd be aware that his very career is dependent on delivering the mother of all public atonement displays, even if he felt the most egregious aspects of the story were mischaracterised.
• If there really was a Hawthorn wide cultural problem during Clarkson's tenure, then the AFL executives know the PR fallout is destined to become an omnishambles, in part because half of the senior coaches worked for Clarkson, and in part because we'll never know for sure who said what exactly.
• Your characterisation of the players may be true in some part, but to have come this far into the world of elite sport I'd suggest most players would also have a strong competitive streak, and Clarko quite simply represents the single best opportunity any of them will probably ever have to succeed on field. I could see how that could weigh on many of their minds, particularly in the absence of any proof that the abortion episode happened as reported.
• All this is predicated on the assumption that the AFL investigation doesn't uncover anything significant beyond what has already been made public, and that those making the allegations have no desire to pursue their claims with legal recourse.

 

[hcd199]

‘Compelled to have an abortion’ means an abortion took place (and against the will of the woman) I still can’t see anywhere that an abortion occurred, it seems to me these words are inaccurate and designed to be click bait so to speak.

I think you've misunderstood me, then. "Compelling a player's partner to have an abortion" doesn't at all mean "an abortion took place" - someone 'compelled' to attend court could still be a no-show, for example - and it's abundantly clear in the article that the pregnancy in question resulted in the birth of the child ('Amy' terminated her next pregnancy, and clearly considers that she did so due to the negative experience with Hawthorn last time, but that isn't what we're discussing here).

Given that, it would be pretty bizarre for me to concoct an allegation from thin air, and I'd have thought the sense in which I was using the word was fairly clear. But substitute "demanding"/"requiring"/"insisting" if you prefer - the initial point (that, irrespective of for how long that demand continued to be made, to make it at all would be "frankly inhumane") stands.

 

[tazaa]

So harvey said this as well, possibly a link to hard core supporter baseView attachment 1514373

Nope. It was Chip Le Grand after we kicked 4 goals in 3 minutes to beat Collingwood at Telstra Dome.

Chip Le Grand's article on Monday morning about Sunday's match started with this:

"Comeback Kangas book September
Chip le Grand
August 08, 2005
Collingwood 14.14 (98) v Kangaroos 15.14 (104)

IF the world were consumed by a nuclear holocaust tomorrow, the North Melbourne Football Club and cockroaches would be the only two things left scurrying round the earth.

For the second week in a row, the Kangaroos yesterday showed why they are the hardest team to kill in the AFL. "

I liked it too.

 

[Forever North]

Unfortunately society is turning into a blame culture. It’s easier to blame someone else than take responsibility for your own life.

The smart ones know how to game the system. Endless money to be made in workplace complaints. HR depts are basically legal depts nowdays, making sure every pointless rule and regulation gets strictly adhered to for fear of legal ramifications. Makes worklife toxic and unbearable. Sickens me what lying arseholes with an ounce of power get away with. Happened to me 20 years ago, had to leave an organisation whilst some vindictive bitch got promoted. Turned out for the best for me in the end (karma), however I’m that scarred I rarely socialise and mix with workmates away from the workplace anymore.