Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

[Kangaroo Cat]

It’s very strange that this harmless comment was enough to get him reported.


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And that's what makes it interesting. The lady who had reported him had also gotten after work drinks banned due to a case of someone who crashed their car and died after a work gathering in melbourne a year before. She was very process driven about what was acceptable in a work place and was the one who derailed meetings with complaints. She had a very different perception from most. The thing that got me was how hurt he was by it, I admit i was suspicious of being his friend as i had been hit on by superiors previously (including at the same company). Those experiences had made me extremely vigilant of any perceived romantic interest and as I said before, he never tried a thing even though I was single and arguably easier to make a pass at. She took somethimg he said in a different way than it was intended and it was her nature to see justice done, i think her intentions were honorable too. Definitely a case of two generations having different perspectives.

 

[Horace]

Not wishing to make light of this matter, but Mrs. H and I have what I will term "conversations of misunderstanding" from time to time.

A casual observer might be moved to say that each of us, is right in our own way on a regular basis, however strangely it seems that I am invariably wrong. Make of that what you will.

 

[Smoocher]

Wow very strong statement from Fagan posted on AFL website.

So Fagan and Clarko absolutely refute the allegations.

This is sounding more and more like an evolution of stories that started with coach I need your help with family/relationship issues, and ended with "he wanted to kill my baby".

Will the butler back up Fagan's and Clarkos side of events.

If so it is no contest and they are innocent.

Will Fagan and Clarko use the old line "The butler did it".

Reading between the lines I think the indigenous side of events will be found to be completely different to what actually happened.

Nothing surer than both Fagan and Clarko continuing in their coaching roles

Good times.
.





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[Kangaroos techno]

It is a legit medical procedure and women's right to have control over her own body, we as men can have as many opinions as we want about it but ultimately it is a woman's choice and we have to respect that choice, whichever way it goes.

No one is saying that isn't the case so let's not go down that path. We don't know the facts.

I assume most couples talk about this together (i did with my partner). That's not to say it's a 50/50 decision because there are so many variables at play. Could just be a male counterpart being asked by his partner then that partner asking others because it's a huge decision. His opinion could be valued anywhere from 0-100% in his partners mind. Same goes for the opinions he was seeking.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Flawed Genius and I should not have to remind you of recent defamation cases and payouts by the abc in recent years

Multiple*

Maybe I'm forgetting some but the only one I remember is the Andrew Laming one, which was actually the ABC agreeing to pay journalist Louise Milligan's costs and payout for a tweet she posted as an individual.
Christian Porter was unsuccessful of course. What are the others?

 

[gomfs]

Dude, go back to school, children cannot be aborted only foetuses

Not to be pedantic but children can be aborted depending on your definition of when an unborn baby becomes a child, but I do take your point. The definition of when an embryo becomes a foetus becomes a child is also open to legal, religious, cultural and moral ambiguities These days these terms are almost interchangeable outside a medical setting. Much the same as we can’t use mother as much anymore but are made to use the term “birth parent” to avoid offending anyone. I have been castigated in the past for suggesting a birth parent describe themselves as mother on a childs’ surgical consent form.

 

[Val Keating]

It might pay to wait and see what the AFL Review produces. Remember it will be independent and headed by a Kings Counsel. These people are not going to come up with something that gets Hawthorn off the hook, because they and the AFL wants it to.

$50k fine incoming

 

[Nutjob]

Mate it’s not that black and white. Three different families have now come forward explaining in detail the harsh methods used by the leadership group. And there will be more. Everything from here on is about minimising damage.

And Clarko has denied all allegations. What makes one more right than the other? Just because one has gone into more detail, it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. Clarko and the other staff involved should and rightly so be able to defend themselves and not lose their job if they feel they’re not guilty of the allegations.


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[WesternRoo]

Surely something this damning would need to be watertight to be released into the wild

Not from the ABC.

They are consistently inaccurate and when they are caught out and/or sued, they use taxpayer money to defend themselves.

This great coach who we were salivating over, deserves us to back him in and defend these claims.

He has absolutely denied the claims. That's where it sits for me until a credible, non gravy train entity proves otherwise.

All clubs would attempt to seperate bad influences from their players. White or black.

Funny how Shaun Burgoyne and other indigenous players never had this experience.

People need to step out of urban Melbourne and see what some of these issues really are and a bit of tough love may be needed to seperate potentially good young men from shit environments and family.

 

[Val Keating]

Can anyone explain, if it is a fabrication and a stitch up, what those fabricating the stories stand to gain from doing so? And why they would risk the scrutiny, abuse etc, that comes with putting this into the public domain? I'm genuinely asking.

I’m not suggesting it’s a fabrication, but the answer is that they have remained anonymous so they have no scrutiny.

 

[TruRoos7]

Bull s**t!

Its high time this woke BS, where untested allegation is good enough to end someone's career stops.
If Clarko denies the allegations and their is no corroborating evidence then that's the end of it.
By allowing the court of public Opinion (twitter) to decide someone's fate, is completely open to false allegations to be made from anyone with an axe to grind.
Next thing we'll have people being denounced and stormtroopers in the middle of the night.

I’m not saying it’s right but if people recall a certain Attorney General had to step down because of a simple interview on a certain tv show followed by a letter penned by a deceased person who’s allegations could not be investigated.
No criminal charges were laid at all yet the guy had to step down.

It’s not right at all but it’s what happens all the time when allegations are made about people.

A friend of mine lost his career (well he had to walk away) after he was accused by 2 girls of abuse.
It was found after a year that they lied categorically about the abuse, they claimed he conducted this abuse on camps, at school etc and came up with dates it occurred.
He wasn’t in attendance at the camps, wasn’t at school on multiple occasions they claimed as those dates it occurred, no charges were ever laid and one of the girls finally admitted they both lied.
The guy couldn’t go to work, he tried but the constant whispers, looks and even name calling by students forced him out.
He was innocent, the girls admitted to lying yet still people accused him of being a (insert word here).

 

[Ashley B]

He is conveniently overseas


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Jeff on the findings of the report “ Oh shit, Hi Qantas I need to book a flight will only have hand luggage I am in a hurry”Leadership.Spoken in the Sam Newman Jeff voice

 

[Marksup]

This club is cursed. We just can’t look forward to anything or have anything good. Ever.
Always struggling. Always toiling. And if things do happen to start finally looking ‘up’, we’re blindsided by something beyond any of our control, beyond any of the club’s doing and whatever optimism we had gets monumentally f****d.

I live interstate and was considering flying across for a few matches next year, with the groundswell of excitement building and players wanting to come to us. And those days watching the Clarko thread, thinking we had him, then we didn’t, did, didn’t, then did- that was like a great dream that actually came true.

So maybe the dream not only hasn’t come true, but turned into a nightmare. Of course. Not only is it not as good as we were expecting, but a thousand times worse than we could have imagined.

F*** this.

Feeling good about this club is like having a picnic on a train track.

If Clarkson is gone, I’m pretty much done with footy. I can’t help it, that’s how I feel. Since 2002 this has been a toxic relationship.

I feel this way also, but I’ll say one thing. Even if you want to, you won’t be able to let go.

I listened to my Dad, a long-time suffering St Kilda supporter (over 60 years), say he was finished after the 2010 replay. Threw his scarf in the bin as he left the stadium that day and said with conviction that he could no longer allow himself to be this emotionally attached to the football side. I believed it at the time.

12 years on, still no success, but he’ still as passionate as he’s ever been. There’s beauty in that. I hope for his case success isn’t too far away because it’ll mean more to him that anyone I know.

I’m not giving up on this club, because I can’t, not because I don’t want to. I think you’ll find the same problem.

 

[Ashley B]

There is a self help thread re North , which I recently visited, always helps lol

 

[hilly]

I feel this way also, but I’ll say one thing. Even if you want to, you won’t be able to let go.

I listened to my Dad, a long-time suffering St Kilda supporter (over 60 years), say he was finished after the 2010 replay. Threw his scarf in the bin as he left the stadium that day and said with conviction that he could no longer allow himself to be this emotionally attached to the football side. I believed it at the time.

12 years on, still no success, but he’ still as passionate as he’s ever been. There’s beauty in that. I hope for his case success isn’t too far away because it’ll mean more to him that anyone I know.

I’m not giving up on this club, because I can’t, not because I don’t want to. I think you’ll find the same problem.

The other thing I would add is we can all take months off before the 2023 season starts. I mean renew your membership then go Round 1 (if possible).

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[danj]

Putting a positive spin on things, thank fcuk we're not the USA otherwise there would be Right To Life lynch mobs on the streets out the front of all 3 clubs and most likely the coaches homes.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

lived with Luke Hodge as an attempt by Hawthorn to straighten out and amend his lifestyle.

Is this correct? I thought he lived with Hodge for one week when he first arrived in Melbourne.
One, I can't believe Hawthorn drafted him thinking from the get-go he needed to straighten out and amend his lifestyle.
Two, they didn’t give it much of a go if their effort was giving him a week with Hodge immediately upon arrival.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

It’s very strange that this harmless comment was enough to get him reported.


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Not that irregular.

Happened at my partner's workplace too. A female staff member had her presentation at a conference recorded so everyone could critique it. She has confidence issues when speaking in front of people and wants to improve. A senior male staff member said "you looked good up there, very professional". She took it the wrong way and after speaking to another colleague they decided to report him. He had to have a sit down and was educated by HR.

If i worked in an office setting still I'd just use pre-approved comments written on palm cards. If anyone asked me a question I'd pull one out and say "In case of an investigation by the Australian Federal Police or similar government agency, i do not have any involvement with this group or with the people in it, i do not know how I am here, probably hired by a third party. I do not support any actions by members of this group unless they are deemed acceptable by a diverse independent body at the present date."

 

[hcd199]

I didn't read the article as a woman being 'compelled to have an abortion'

We can quibble semantics if you like, but what's alleged and/or quoted in the article is that, at that particular moment, "a group of coaches" took 'Ian' aside and, amongst other things, "demanded that [he] needed to get rid of [his] unborn child" ("he was urged to have the pregnancy terminated") - a demand which he then unwillingly relayed ("he felt he had no choice [...] he could barely get the words out and he seemed to be crying") to his partner 'Amy'.

Without knowing why you don't agree with my choice of phrase, it's difficult to respond exactly. But, as recounted, the terminology isn't compatible with it being a voluntary suggestion, but rather an obligation - hence "compelled".

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Theres more than that, better examples too

Such as?

 

[danj]

We can quibble semantics if you like, but what's alleged and/or quoted in the article is that, at that particular moment, "a group of coaches" took 'Ian' aside and, amongst other things, "demanded that [he] needed to get rid of [his] unborn child" ("he was urged to have the pregnancy terminated") - a demand which he then unwillingly relayed ("he felt he had no choice [...] he could barely get the words out and he seemed to be crying") to his partner 'Amy'.

Without knowing why you don't agree with my choice of phrase, it's difficult to respond exactly. But, as recounted, the terminology isn't compatible with it being a voluntary suggestion, but rather an obligation - hence "compelled".

‘Compelled to have an abortion’ means an abortion took place (and against the will of the woman) I still can’t see anywhere that an abortion occurred, it seems to me these words are inaccurate and designed to be click bait so to speak.

 

[tazaa]

What we don't have is the full context. I don't think its possible that we're talking about three completely fabricated accounts. There is a repeated pattern of behaviour being alleged by at least six individuals. I think it's unlikely that the accounts are any less than mostly true. So how far could mitigating circumstances possibly justify the conduct described?

As it stands, there are three strands to the story:

"Ian" and "Amy".
Ian alleges that Clarkson, Fagan and other coaches urged him to have his partner's pregnancy terminated, and he was told to leave his partner and move into the home of an assistant coach. Ian says the coaches convinced him to remove his SIM card from his phone, so his family could not contact him. Amy says Ian called her afterwards, telling her she needed to end the pregnancy and they needed to end the relationship. Amy goes on to allege that multiple members of Hawthorn's staff, including Jason Burt, would thwart her attempts to meet with Ian in person. Ian's mental health deteriorated in the months that followed, before the club allowed Ian to move back in with Amy. Amy says she felt compelled to have an abortion for a later child, because of the previous traumatic experience they'd had with Hawthorn.

"Zac" and "Kylie".
Zac alleges that Clarkson, Fagan and Burt told him in a meeting that his relationship with Kylie was holding back his career as a player. Zac tell them that Kylie is pregnant. Kylie says Clarkson , Fagan and Burt took Zac home, where she was, and the coaches told them their relationship was over and their contact would cease immediately. Zac says the club made him change his phone number and he moved in with Burt. Kylie made many attempts to reach out to Zac via Hawthorn and the police, but to no avail. Kylie had a miscarriage, of which Burt informed Zac in an apparently off-handed remark during training. Zac left Hawthorn at the end of the season and reunited to Kylie shortly afterwards.

"Liam" and "Jacqui".
Liam and Jacqui allege a number of discriminatory incidents took place during his time at Hawthorn. In particular they detail the pressure Liam endured from staff members to pursue his career away from his family.

The gaps in between
Of the three accounts, the most vague by some margin is Liam and Jacqui's. No coaches or staff names are mentioned in that section of the story at all. The precise nature of the pressure he and Jacqui endured is unclear. The significance of his account in the story appears to be to reinforce a repeated pattern of coercive behaviour at Hawthorn. So even though we understand his allegations to have taken place during Clarkson's helm, its difficult to pinpoint which individuals their allegations are directed at and how serious they are.

Assuming the bones of the stories are true, the kindest possible reading of Clarkson and Fagan's role in Ian's story is that the coaches had a misguided belief they should be performing a paternalistic role in the lives of young indigenous players that extended to offering them reproductive advice. The allegations obviously go well beyond that.

In Zac's case, perhaps the coaches were concerned about hardcore drug abuse, or episodes of domestic violence, and no family support available to the players.

I know I shouldn't be making myself dizzy flipping around hypotheticals, but really its quite hard to process it all.

Its at the stage where the allegations are so explosive Clarko, Fagan and Burt are going to have to disclose some real personal shit about what happened because context is so desperately needed. It’s bloody sad.

As it stands we’re talking about industry wide implications in a football sense with shockwaves already being felt and will be felt.
And yes these footballers deserve to be heard and have been heard.
It’s now on the accused to be allowed due process to respond. All 3 can’t not have the opportunity to salvage their reputations.


I have slept on this overnight and have formed the opinion that I can’t see how Clarkson survives this. Even if he’s vindicated and cleared the one thing he needs is the respect and support of the playing group who for as long as I can remember are unprofessional, lazy, not motivated and switch off at any point in time. They meander their way through their careers. Bare minimum shit.

If Clarko was to come in and be the alpha he needed to get total buy in from the get go. Get on the bus as he said. I just can’t see how with Nortn at it’s lowest ebb he’s gonna be able to turn things around.

 

[Horace]

I feel this way also, but I’ll say one thing. Even if you want to, you won’t be able to let go.

I listened to my Dad, a long-time suffering St Kilda supporter (over 60 years), say he was finished after the 2010 replay. Threw his scarf in the bin as he left the stadium that day and said with conviction that he could no longer allow himself to be this emotionally attached to the football side. I believed it at the time.

12 years on, still no success, but he’ still as passionate as he’s ever been. There’s beauty in that. I hope for his case success isn’t too far away because it’ll mean more to him that anyone I know.

I’m not giving up on this club, because I can’t, not because I don’t want to. I think you’ll find the same problem.

And we do not need to give up on this club. It is not us , but Hawthorn who must deal with this whatever the outcome.

For us it is merely a setback in my opinion. If Clarkson is unable to coach our club, there are plenty of other people who will be eager to step into the position. Who knows, it may be someone better equipped, it may be someone with the same approach as McRae at the Pies.

We will be okay.

 

[benbanjo]

Clarko will coach next year, will name Jy as captain, then he can head up the various Indigenous activities by our club and we all move on.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I feel like we are cornered.

Can’t sack Clarkson without him having a chance for due process; that could open us up for a law suit.
But he also can’t commence with us until “cleared” (whatever that looks like), which will take 2 months.

So what do we do when it’s deep in Nov if the findings are inconclusive, as they probably will be? Sack? Keep?
And we would have lost 2 months of opportunity to search for another coach.

This issue needs urgent contingency and “what-if” planning.

The chips fall where they do. If in two or three months we have to let Clarkson go, we will have a contingency. Maybe Patch moves back into the role and we begin a process.
It may cost NMFC a season, but that is nothing compared to what it has cost some of the other protagonists in all this.