Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation

[CharlieMortdecai]

Russell Jackson, the ‘self taught’ journalist….

I know nothing about his background but what's with all the self taught jibes? Journalism (especially long form journalism) and writing generally is one field where a great many excellent writers are self taught. Seems bizarre.

 

[kool kangas]

I heard Alistair Lynch interviewed on SEN yesterday. While he thinks Leppitsch would be an ideal candidate for a senior role again, Leppitsch has told him he is not interested as he is very happy working at the Pies with his old teammate McRae.

But he would get to coach us.. and $$$$ talks..

 

[Horace]

I wonder how Karl Amon

10

Karl Amon

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

294.5

4star

D

21.0

5star

K

15.0

5star

HB

6.0

3star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

146.8

3star

is thinking about Hawthorn, having nominated them as his club to be traded to?

 

[roomagic1984]

How can this report not interview/engage both Fagan and Clarkson despite these damaging claims?
Isn’t that like the basic of basics?

 

[Cyber_punk]

This club is cursed. We just can’t look forward to anything or have anything good. Ever.
Always struggling. Always toiling. And if things do happen to start finally looking ‘up’, we’re blindsided by something beyond any of our control, beyond any of the club’s doing and whatever optimism we had gets monumentally f****d.

I live interstate and was considering flying across for a few matches next year, with the groundswell of excitement building and players wanting to come to us. And those days watching the Clarko thread, thinking we had him, then we didn’t, did, didn’t, then did- that was like a great dream that actually came true.

So maybe the dream not only hasn’t come true, but turned into a nightmare. Of course. Not only is it not as good as we were expecting, but a thousand times worse than we could have imagined.

F*** this.

Feeling good about this club is like having a picnic on a train track.

If Clarkson is gone, I’m pretty much done with footy. I can’t help it, that’s how I feel. Since 2002 this has been a toxic relationship.

"We're gonna make, we're gonna make it! WOOOHO--"

 

[Passmore]

If there’s no wrong doing proven and we sack him because “mud sticks” what a weak organisation we’d be.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

That is a messed up view to have. If I walk into your work place and accuse you of racism, should you be terminated from your job? There are two sides to every story and Clarko is innocent until proven guilty. If it was guilty until proven innocent, the world would be an even more messed up place.

What I don’t get is how a club can do a review and not speak with the staff.


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Hardly the same. More like if you manage a multicultural team and three of your staff accuse you of racism should you be terminated? Perhaps not, but it's a lot more likely than if it's an accusation from one rando.

 

[BigRedRoo]

• Clarko isn't Eddie McGuire. That's another way of saying that I don't think we'll see a repeat of the Do Better saga. Clarko didn't become the most successful coach in the modern game without learning how to push people's buttons. He's a gifted communicator, he would have pretty high emotional intelligence, and he understands the politics required to succeed in the AFL industry more than just about anyone. He'd be aware that his very career is dependent on delivering the mother of all public atonement displays, even if he felt the most egregious aspects of the story were mischaracterised.

Completely and utterly wrong.
If Clarko didn't do the thing that are alleged, then no apology should be forthcoming.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you will know that apologies are not helpful, in fact all they do is invite yet another round of scorn and condemnation.
No one is ever forgiven in this day and age.
Far better outcomes are achieve by holding your ground, stating the facts as you understand them consistently.
This requires courage, but people who fight back rather than meekly surrender live to fight another day.

 

[Val Keating]

If there’s no wrong doing proven and we sack him because “mud sticks” what a weak organisation we’d be.

I doubt we’d do that, they stood by Maj even though the coach didn’t like him.

 

[Passmore]

I doubt we’d do that, they stood by Maj even though the coach didn’t like him.

I don’t think we would either.

 

[Nutjob]

I’m sorry but he will, there will be an element in society that will still believe that he did it and it’s just a cover up especially being a white man doing this to indigenous people.

Sponsors will think carefully about renewing deals, they don’t want any negative publicity.

As I said before mud sticks regardless of the amount of water used to dilute it and the stain never goes away.

‘A white man doing this to indigenous people.’

You’re right it might stick, but it shouldn’t. No offence it’s people like yourself and making the above comments as to why it will stick. You’re already insinuating his guilt before he has had the opportunity to defend the allegations. Clarko has denied the allegations and should be given every right to clear his name.


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[Passmore]

‘A white man doing this to indigenous people.’

You’re right it might stick, but it shouldn’t. No offence it’s people like yourself and making the above comments as to why it will stick. You’re already insinuating his guilt before anyone has had the opportunity to defend the allegations. Clarko has denied the allegations and should be given every right to clear his name.


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If we boot him, it most certainly would stick.

 

[Nutjob]

How can this report not interview/engage both Fagan and Clarkson despite these damaging claims?
Isn’t that like the basic of basics?

It’s bewildering isn’t it? That’s exactly why I won’t be jumping at shadows until an actual thorough investigation has been done. It seems only First Nation people participated in the report. I get that they’re the focus of the report, but it’s pathetic investigating not to speak with other staff and players that were there at the time.


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[Nutjob]

If we boot him, it most certainly would stick.

We won’t boot him until it is proven he participated in what he is being accused of. Then it should rightly stick.


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[Roosurgence]

The smart ones know how to game the system. Endless money to be made in workplace complaints. HR depts are basically legal depts nowdays, making sure every pointless rule and regulation gets strictly adhered to for fear of legal ramifications. Makes worklife toxic and unbearable. Sickens me what lying arseholes with an ounce of power get away with. Happened to me 20 years ago, had to leave an organisation whilst some vindictive bitch got promoted. Turned out for the best for me in the end (karma), however I’m that scarred I rarely socialise and mix with workmates away from the workplace anymore.

It happens in all walks of life. People looking for the easy way out or some to blame for their failings.

I remember as a teenage kid I was very good at golf and used to play District Pennant. I was playing scratch match play against another District player who I defeated 8 and 7.

A week later I was called into my golf club to face the committee because I had been reported by my opponent for what was essentially gamesmanship, where he claimed I was putting him off throughout the round. I vehemently denied these claims as they were untrue and actually stated that if anything I felt sorry for the guy because I was beating him so badly and had no reason (not that I would) to try and put him off. Without any evidence I was suspended for the rest of the pennant season.

The story didn’t end there though, a few years later I was playing in a tournament and got paired with this same guy who levelled the allegations at me and I flat confronted him and asked him why he told these lies about our match which resulted in me being suspended……. the answer I got was he didn’t want to lose his place in the team so it was easier for him to blame the heavy defeat on him being put off during the round, than actually take ownership of his own performance.

I told him all the trouble it caused me and he was actually genuinely remorseful as he hadn’t actually stopped to think of the ramifications of his lies. As I said people just find it easier to blame others than take control of their own shit sometimes.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Completely and utterly wrong.
If Clarko didn't do the thing that are alleged, then no apology should be forthcoming.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you will know that apologies are not helpful, in fact all they do is invite yet another round of scorn and condemnation.
No one is ever forgiven in this day and age.
Far better outcomes are achieve by holding your ground, stating the facts as you understand them consistently.
This requires courage, but people who fight back rather than meekly surrender live to fight another day.

We shall see mate.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

People need to step out of urban Melbourne and see what some of these issues really are and a bit of tough love may be needed to seperate potentially good young men from s**t environments and family.

Utterly shit take.

Be explicit about what you've seen and how "tough love" and separation from family would help.

 

[Sticksphat]

It’s bewildering isn’t it? That’s exactly why I won’t be jumping at shadows until an actual thorough investigation has been done. It seems only First Nation people participated in the report. I get that they’re the focus of the report, but it’s pathetic investigating not to speak with other staff and players that were there at the time.


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The "report" was commissioned by Hawthorn to obtain the perspective of their indigenous players of their time at Hawthorn. It was not an investigation into the alleged events, but when the events were revealed by the report it was escalated by the Hawks to the AFL. The person who did the report was in no positon to investigate the incidents any further. The journo who wrote abote the events did try and get the other sides story, but quite wisely in my opinon the coaches kept quiet until a full AFL investigation, which any one reading he report knew would have to happen.

 

[Smoocher]

I'm surprised how behind Australia seems to be in relation to some other countries when it comes to allegations like this.

It's really hard for victims of abuse to step forward, especially when everyone is so quick to jump up and attack the victim's character and demand proof. I agree that there is an element of innocent until proven guilty and that there is also a history of false accusations that need to be considered, but based on what we've heard so far it is more likely than not that Clarkson is guilty.

Based on how the last 24 hours have unfolded, I'm assuming that these investigations will uncover insufficient evidence and life will go on. There will never be proof of these actions and if the AFL and North Melbourne wish to bury them then they will succeed quite easily. The other side of that coin is that there will never be evidence presented that Clarkson is innocent. These allegations have permanently clouded his reputation whether they are true or not.

Clarkson may be one of the greatest coaches of all time, but I don't know if his value offsets the fact that the playing group and supporters will never again be fully united and in full support of him. There is now a massive amount of risk in signing him up for a five-year contract when he may have permanently lost the respect of any present and future players.

There's also the risk on a five-year deal that other allegations may surface. We have a clear opportunity to separate ourselves right now and I think based on what's been presented it is the best option for us.

In some countries they are so advanced that the mere mention or allegation of a crime ends in death or imprisonment without any Court proceedings.

Let's just hang anyone that is accused of anything.

Give me a break.

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[blackshadow]

After a bit of time to digest and reflect on what has come out in the past couple of days.

I was horrified when I read the ABC report yesterday it was truly harrowing.

I’d like to go on record that if the allegation of a player being instructed to tell his partner she must have an abortion is as reported then anyone involved in that conversation should never work in football again.

I think the issue at hand is not racism it’s about coaches and football staff wanting their players to maximise their potential and be as successful as they can as a football player.

It’s similar in any high-pressure, high-performance field of endeavour be it sports, business or arts – all fields where in the past people could more easily rise to the top on talent; these days though talent alone isn’t enough to be successful and that’s where extra work, sacrifice and putting aside areas of your life that detract from success in your chosen endeavour come into play.

We don’t know the circumstances of the players mentioned in the report – but I do know that the coaches and other football staff would have had a very good handle on what was going on in the lives of those young men (perhaps teenagers).

If it was identified that a player was in a relationship that may not make it or had signs of toxicity (substance abuse, violence, pressure from extended family etc) but they were going to be having a baby with their partner I can see where out of welfare (even if misguided) for the player a coach may have asked the player if they really want to be a father and are they aware of the sacrifice that comes with parenthood, the sleep deprivation, the scaling back of social life, having to adjust priorities to put family first instead of yourself or your career. Hell, I know this as a parent! And there’s no way I would have been equipped in my late teens or early twenties to deal with it. That said, becoming a father is one of the best things that’s ever happened in my life.

To me a conversation around that may include abortion as an option – but it’s a far cry from instructing a player to get an abortion.

I don’t know the backgrounds of the players mentioned but it’s entirely reasonable to guess that they may have come from indigenous communities where the idea of what is required to be successful as an elite sportsman isn’t given much thought, rather that the community and extended family come before elite sport and that what has been perceived as racism by the players making the allegations is in fact the coaches doing their jobs to mould their charges into elite sportsmen.

 

[DocSholl]

Funny how Shaun Burgoyne and other indigenous players never had this experience.

What is funny is the way we collectively group all indigenous players with stuff like this. If some indigenous players haven't experienced racism, then that makes it less likely others have etc.

It's really ordinary, as is the assumption that younger indigenous players will automatically go and speak to senior indigenous players and if they didn't confide in Burgoyne or Rioli then it must not have happened. Power structures and imbalances still exist regardless of background.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Some facts.

- The ABC report that shocked all of us was an interview of the family of 3 former players conducted by ABC Sport

- Earlier this month, the Hawks engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former indigenous players and staff to learn more about there experience. The completed report highlighted historical allegations and was forwarded to the AFL integrity unit by the Hawks.


Two perspectives…….

One completed by a professional consultancy that specialises in indigenous programs. In terms of scope…..current, former players and staff were interviewed. It is wide reaching and I would imagine capture objectively the good, the bad and the ugly.

The second, by an ABC sports journalist who interviewed three former players and there families.

The ABC report while I’m sure contains factual content that will line up with the report submitted by the consultancy, It does also contain sensationalist views and interpretations of he said she said that won’t stand in a court of law.


In short….I doubt the outcome for both Clarkson and Fagen will be as bad as (being forced to step down) or as good to get off scott free….

Now…my personal opinion. As a person of colour, and a die hard north fan who has never met Clarkson or Fagen, to mark them as racist of the back of an ABC sport report is irresponsible…..

Do I think Clarkson and Fagen are ruthless pricks that operate beyond boundaries to win…..most definitely. Highly intuitive but Insensitive….quite possibly….racist….no…


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The problem is we do not have the Hawthorn report for the purpose of comparison. You say "consultants" but was it anybody beyond Phil Egan? His consultancy firm Binmada seems to be a one-man band.
This is not to disparage Egan in any way, I simply have no way of judging the relative merits of the two reports to say that Egan's report was deeper, wider or more professional as you seem to imply.

 

[benbanjo]

I wonder how Karl Amon is thinking about Hawthorn, having nominated them as his club to be traded to?

Who cares.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

He was in trouble wayyy before he was drafted. Really bad egg. Could turn it around like A. Krakouer but I’m not convinced.

Yeah that was well known, my point is why draft him if you think he needs to live with Hodgey to straighten up? And then only do it for one week?

 

[DarkPhoenix]

In my opinion, that is not so unusual. Indigenous people have been victimised right from the word go in this country and I think that would help lead them to think, what is the good of speaking up because nothing will be done about it anyway, we won't be believed, that's our lot in life. They may have talked amongst themselves though.

One of the things that I have noticed at NMFC club/supporter events, was the extreme shyness/reserve/even fear (in my opinion) of so many of our indigenous boys. Aaron Hall, Wellsy and LT in particular. The only two who I met who seemed unafraid of those occasions, were Matty Campbell and the last Gary Dhurrkay.

I think it is impossible for us to understand the mindset of indigenous people and how they would approach their treatment at that time, bearing in mind also they were really just young kids.

Just a note.... Hally is Fijian