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I won’t harp on it again, but I can’t see how Clarkson can commence while he’s the subject of an integrity inquiry. We’ll soon see
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Coach Alastair Clarkson III - new NMFC senior coach until at least end 2027 - NMFC board approved AC to start 1/11 amid ongoing HFC racism investigation
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I can, check out the pedigree of his legal representative in John Tuck of Corrs Chambers Westgarth!
giantroo
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Didn't Hird coach through the year while a senate inquiry was going on?
blackshadow
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I don't know. What is common with the other three, apart from being barristers and solicitors?
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FFS
www.abc.net.au
Russell Jackson
The independence of the AFL's proposed investigation into allegations against former Hawthorn coaches is being questioned by families interviewed for the club's cultural safety review.
Responding to news that Bernard Quinn KC will chair a panel including barristers Tim Goodwin, Julie Buxton and Jacqualyn Turfrey, a member of one of the families interviewed by ABC Sport and for the Hawthorn review said she had been caught unawares by the announcement.
A member of another of the Hawthorn families said: "Nobody from the AFL has communicated with us at all on anything".
She said her family had also been rocked by media reports claiming that former Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson, who has denied allegations against him, may commence his coaching duties at North Melbourne before the completion of the investigation.
"If the AFL allows that, it shows they truly don't care about us," she said.
"Gillon McLachlan has previously stated that our wellbeing is at the forefront, but it does not feel like that to us.
"The only consistent message we hear from both sides is that it's unfair on the accused, as though what happened to us was fair, and that it's all our fault for speaking to the media. The reality is the AFL and Hawthorn did not speak to us or give us any support after we contributed to the review.”
The AFL did not respond to ABC Sport's request for clarification on Clarkson's start date.
Lawyer Judy Courtin, who represents one of the Hawthorn families, said an inquiry established by and funded by the AFL could not hope to be independent.
"My clients, yet again, feel they are being marginalised," Ms Courtin told ABC Sport.
"For an inquiry to be fair, its establishment should take into consideration the needs and concerns of all parties. As this family's legal representatives, we have not been approached by either the Hawthorn Club or the AFL.
"An inquiry that is paid for and established by the AFL, and absent of any input from my clients, is not and cannot be independent.
"Not only were my clients allegedly forcibly torn apart as a couple nearly a decade ago, they continue to be treated with disdain.
"We wrote to the President of Hawthorn, Mr Jeff Kennett, last week on behalf of our clients seeking some urgent funding for counselling. We are yet to receive even an acknowledgement of our letter. Where is the club's priority of its First Nations' players? This is a disgrace."
In its statement announcing the four-person panel, the AFL went as far as to criticise the families of First Nations former Hawthorn players who refused to be identified as part of the investigative process.
"The AFL does not know the identities of the persons / families who have recalled their accounts within the Hawthorn Football Club review or with the journalist who published those accounts," the statement read.
"The AFL has repeatedly requested this information from their lawyers to assist in the good conduct of the investigation and related processes, which has been declined."
The families have told ABC Sport that the health and emotional wellbeing of themselves and their children is their first priority, and that the possibility of their identities being leaked was a cause of significant emotional distress. For the sake of the review commissioned by Hawthorn, they had been guaranteed anonymity.
The AFL's statement said it expected the findings to be made public in December.
"The appointed independent panel, assisted by the law firm Gordon Legal, will now work with the above representatives on undertaking a culturally safe process that provides due process and natural justice to those who have made claims and those against whom allegations have been made, with the intention of providing a report in December 2022," the statement said.
"As noted, it is expected that the report, including findings and recommendations, will be made public at the end of this process."
Responding in part to media reports which claimed each of the families were being represented by Leon Zwier of the law firm Arnold Block Leibler (ABL), the AFL statement said the investigation's terms of reference would be shared between ABL and other lawyers for families.
"The AFL had previously been informed that ABL represented all five families identified under pseudonyms in the report but was informed last Friday night that one of the families had recently instructed another lawyer with whom ABL was acting collaboratively," the statement said.
It will assess incidents alleged to have occurred between January 1, 2008 and December 31, 2016 inclusive and will "run independently of the AFL".
"These are very serious allegations, and it is important that we have an independent panel that is able to hear the perspectives of all involved and to provide natural justice to those making the claims and those who have had claims made against them," Mr Dillon said.
"It is also vitally important that the panel is able to complete its work independently of the AFL. Bernard Quinn KC, the chair of the independent investigation and panel members Jacqualyn Turfrey, Julie Buxton and Tim Goodwin are all eminently qualified barristers that will be able to provide their intellect and significant expertise to the process."
"The four-person panel, with their diverse backgrounds including in respect of Ms Turfrey and Mr Goodwin as First Nations persons will also have the ability to bring in additional outside expertise, whether that be in cultural safety, football administration or any other area the panel believes extra resource is needed.
'Treated with disdain': Affected families query Hawthorn review's independence
The lawyer for one of the First Nations families involved in the Hawthorn cultural safety review raises questions over the independence of an investigative panel announced by the AFL.
www.abc.net.au
Families of First Nations players query the independence of AFL's proposed investigation of Hawthorn allegations
Russell Jackson
The independence of the AFL's proposed investigation into allegations against former Hawthorn coaches is being questioned by families interviewed for the club's cultural safety review.
Key points:
- The AFL announced a four-person investigative panel to look into incidents alleged to have occurred at Hawthorn between 2008 and 2016
- A lawyer for one of the families who made the allegations said her clients felt like they were being "marginalised" by the process
- The AFL said the panel had "a strong and diverse mix of experience and skillset as well as First Nations representation"
Responding to news that Bernard Quinn KC will chair a panel including barristers Tim Goodwin, Julie Buxton and Jacqualyn Turfrey, a member of one of the families interviewed by ABC Sport and for the Hawthorn review said she had been caught unawares by the announcement.
A member of another of the Hawthorn families said: "Nobody from the AFL has communicated with us at all on anything".
She said her family had also been rocked by media reports claiming that former Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson, who has denied allegations against him, may commence his coaching duties at North Melbourne before the completion of the investigation.
"If the AFL allows that, it shows they truly don't care about us," she said.
"Gillon McLachlan has previously stated that our wellbeing is at the forefront, but it does not feel like that to us.
"The only consistent message we hear from both sides is that it's unfair on the accused, as though what happened to us was fair, and that it's all our fault for speaking to the media. The reality is the AFL and Hawthorn did not speak to us or give us any support after we contributed to the review.”
The AFL did not respond to ABC Sport's request for clarification on Clarkson's start date.
Lawyer Judy Courtin, who represents one of the Hawthorn families, said an inquiry established by and funded by the AFL could not hope to be independent.
"My clients, yet again, feel they are being marginalised," Ms Courtin told ABC Sport.
"For an inquiry to be fair, its establishment should take into consideration the needs and concerns of all parties. As this family's legal representatives, we have not been approached by either the Hawthorn Club or the AFL.
"An inquiry that is paid for and established by the AFL, and absent of any input from my clients, is not and cannot be independent.
"Not only were my clients allegedly forcibly torn apart as a couple nearly a decade ago, they continue to be treated with disdain.
"We wrote to the President of Hawthorn, Mr Jeff Kennett, last week on behalf of our clients seeking some urgent funding for counselling. We are yet to receive even an acknowledgement of our letter. Where is the club's priority of its First Nations' players? This is a disgrace."
Findings expected to be made public in December
Despite the AFL's promise of transparency and an independent investigation, the league has so far not fully explained the process by which the investigative panellists were appointed and did not respond to ABC Sport's request for a detailed explanation of the process.In its statement announcing the four-person panel, the AFL went as far as to criticise the families of First Nations former Hawthorn players who refused to be identified as part of the investigative process.
"The AFL does not know the identities of the persons / families who have recalled their accounts within the Hawthorn Football Club review or with the journalist who published those accounts," the statement read.
"The AFL has repeatedly requested this information from their lawyers to assist in the good conduct of the investigation and related processes, which has been declined."
The families have told ABC Sport that the health and emotional wellbeing of themselves and their children is their first priority, and that the possibility of their identities being leaked was a cause of significant emotional distress. For the sake of the review commissioned by Hawthorn, they had been guaranteed anonymity.
The AFL's statement said it expected the findings to be made public in December.
"The appointed independent panel, assisted by the law firm Gordon Legal, will now work with the above representatives on undertaking a culturally safe process that provides due process and natural justice to those who have made claims and those against whom allegations have been made, with the intention of providing a report in December 2022," the statement said.
"As noted, it is expected that the report, including findings and recommendations, will be made public at the end of this process."
Responding in part to media reports which claimed each of the families were being represented by Leon Zwier of the law firm Arnold Block Leibler (ABL), the AFL statement said the investigation's terms of reference would be shared between ABL and other lawyers for families.
"The AFL had previously been informed that ABL represented all five families identified under pseudonyms in the report but was informed last Friday night that one of the families had recently instructed another lawyer with whom ABL was acting collaboratively," the statement said.
'These are very serious allegations'
In the AFL's statement, its general counsel Andrew Dillon said the investigative panel had "a strong and diverse mix of experience and skillset, as well as First Nations representation."It will assess incidents alleged to have occurred between January 1, 2008 and December 31, 2016 inclusive and will "run independently of the AFL".
"These are very serious allegations, and it is important that we have an independent panel that is able to hear the perspectives of all involved and to provide natural justice to those making the claims and those who have had claims made against them," Mr Dillon said.
"It is also vitally important that the panel is able to complete its work independently of the AFL. Bernard Quinn KC, the chair of the independent investigation and panel members Jacqualyn Turfrey, Julie Buxton and Tim Goodwin are all eminently qualified barristers that will be able to provide their intellect and significant expertise to the process."
"The four-person panel, with their diverse backgrounds including in respect of Ms Turfrey and Mr Goodwin as First Nations persons will also have the ability to bring in additional outside expertise, whether that be in cultural safety, football administration or any other area the panel believes extra resource is needed.
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The more this plays out in media, the more the defendants can push the angle of not being able to receive a fair unprejudiced hearing.
"We wrote to the President of Hawthorn, Mr Jeff Kennett, last week on behalf of our clients seeking some urgent funding for counselling. We are yet to receive even an acknowledgement of our letter. Where is the club's priority of its First Nations' players? This is a disgrace."FFS
'Treated with disdain': Affected families query Hawthorn review's independence
The lawyer for one of the First Nations families involved in the Hawthorn cultural safety review raises questions over the independence of an investigative panel announced by the AFL.
The b shart
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Alot of the footy scribes are on vacation. Perfect timing
shintemaster
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Fascinating that there is discontent from families about being advised through media releases of the panel members.FFS
'Treated with disdain': Affected families query Hawthorn review's independence
The lawyer for one of the First Nations families involved in the Hawthorn cultural safety review raises questions over the independence of an investigative panel announced by the AFL.
I can see how that would be upsetting.
I'm doing my best here but finding sympathy fast evaporating when families are claiming that being anonymous was promised as part of the Hawthorn report - it was not Hawthorn, nor the AFL that went to the media to push this story into the public sphere. It was the inevitable result of their actions that their anonymity would become compromised. No doubt they wanted things to proceed faster or in a different fashion but there has to be some accountability for their own choices.
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
So those making the accusations don't like it... I'm getting the vibe that the accusers won't cooperate with the investigation.FFS
'Treated with disdain': Affected families query Hawthorn review's independence
The lawyer for one of the First Nations families involved in the Hawthorn cultural safety review raises questions over the independence of an investigative panel announced by the AFL.
Excerpts from the ABC article.
Responding to news that Bernard Quinn KC will chair a panel including barristers Tim Goodwin, Julie Buxton and Jacqualyn Turfrey, a member of one of the families interviewed by ABC Sport and for the Hawthorn review said she had been caught unawares by the announcement.
A member of another of the Hawthorn families said: "Nobody from the AFL has communicated with us at all on anything".
She said her family had also been rocked by media reports claiming that former Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson, who has denied allegations against him, may commence his coaching duties at North Melbourne before the completion of the investigation.
"If the AFL allows that, it shows they truly don't care about us," she said.
"Gillon McLachlan has previously stated that our wellbeing is at the forefront, but it does not feel like that to us.
"The only consistent message we hear from both sides is that it's unfair on the accused, as though what happened to us was fair, and that it's all our fault for speaking to the media. The reality is the AFL and Hawthorn did not speak to us or give us any support after we contributed to the review.”
The AFL did not respond to ABC Sport's request for clarification on Clarkson's start date.
Lawyer Judy Courtin, who represents one of the Hawthorn families, said an inquiry established by and funded by the AFL could not hope to be independent.
"My clients, yet again, feel they are being marginalised," Ms Courtin told ABC Sport.
"For an inquiry to be fair, its establishment should take into consideration the needs and concerns of all parties. As this family's legal representatives, we have not been approached by either the Hawthorn Club or the AFL.
"An inquiry that is paid for and established by the AFL, and absent of any input from my clients, is not and cannot be independent.
"Not only were my clients allegedly forcibly torn apart as a couple nearly a decade ago, they continue to be treated with disdain.
"We wrote to the President of Hawthorn, Mr Jeff Kennett, last week on behalf of our clients seeking some urgent funding for counselling. We are yet to receive even an acknowledgement of our letter. Where is the club's priority of its First Nations' players? This is a disgrace."
In its statement announcing the four-person panel, the AFL went as far as to criticise the families of First Nations former Hawthorn players who refused to be identified as part of the investigative process.
"The AFL does not know the identities of the persons / families who have recalled their accounts within the Hawthorn Football Club review or with the journalist who published those accounts," the statement read.
"The AFL has repeatedly requested this information from their lawyers to assist in the good conduct of the investigation and related processes, which has been declined."
Sillygit
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Am i reading this right? They are disappointed that the afl has not supported them, but also that they have chosen not to identify themselves to the afl?
My Left Foote
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Where's Andrew Newbold's PA when you need her, will somebody please reply to the letter!
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Pretty easy to work out what's happened here. From the AFL statement:FFS
'Treated with disdain': Affected families query Hawthorn review's independence
The lawyer for one of the First Nations families involved in the Hawthorn cultural safety review raises questions over the independence of an investigative panel announced by the AFL.
So one family has changed their legal representation. Because nobody knows the identities of the 5 families, the lawyer for the other four was to pass it on. Appears it might have got overlooked!
sounds like unless they get to creat the panel it wont be fair! how do you propose to create a panel independent to the AFL? who will put it together?
Shinboner1
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You'd assume that the AFL knows who the families are right? Just not the wider AFL community or the public.
Devington
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Clarkson starting Nov 1 just became harder after that article.
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The AFL have repeatedly said they do not know the identities of the families.
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
I don't think it makes a lick of difference.
The complainants would always be against him taking on any role.
Nope just became easier. If these anonymous accusers aren’t going to co operate or agree with whose running this then it ends up in court. Clarko should pull the legal trigger. This leaves him free to coach while the lawyers and courts sort it.
So many questions:
1. Why would the First Nations Family have any input into who is selected?
2. Why wouldn't the AFL fund it? Who will if they don't?
3. You have Lawyers, the statement says the Lawyers were provided with the info already, so they went tot he media without speaking to their lawyers?
4. Why in would the AFL provide any info to ABC Sport about the investigation process? That is betwene the panel and the lawyers of the familities.
Smells like the ABC has close contact with one family member and wants to be on the front foot for extra clicks.
1. Why would the First Nations Family have any input into who is selected?
2. Why wouldn't the AFL fund it? Who will if they don't?
3. You have Lawyers, the statement says the Lawyers were provided with the info already, so they went tot he media without speaking to their lawyers?
4. Why in would the AFL provide any info to ABC Sport about the investigation process? That is betwene the panel and the lawyers of the familities.
Smells like the ABC has close contact with one family member and wants to be on the front foot for extra clicks.
It's pretty clear he won't be starting until the investigative panel makes its findings. Was always going to be the case. The club will probably begin pre-season under Patch Adams.
Devington
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I have a few thoughts on it.
Firstly I agree with your second sentence, but I was expecting they would be relatively quiet right about now. Should have known better considering this all started with a news article.
Secondly I can just imagine clarko working being one of the stumbling blocks on them accepting any process, for example if the AFL caves on one or two things but then they say they can't take them seriously if they allow him to work.
Last but definitely not least, this article, for the first time, makes me think this might well be about money. I'm concerned they want the AFL to formally stand him down, essentially as a form of admission of guilt.
I dunno. I actually doubt the process ever gets going at this rate, but after them publicly putting pressure on the AFL I'm finding it hard to be as confident as everyone else that he'll be starting nov 1.
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Settle petal. The panel will engage with all parties and smooth things over.
But they are going to have to address the question of Clarko’s start date and I suspect he'll wait until the enquiry is finished to allow it to run as smoothly as possible. At the end of the day we want to see an outcome where all parties feel they have been listened to and their concerns addressed.
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