All Australian 2013: 40 Man Squad

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I seriously can't believe people are questioning Mackenzie's place in the squad. He, Taylor and Thompson (leaving out McPharlin due to injury) have been far and away the standout KPD's this year.
 
Rubbish. Marks anywhere are less relevant than I50 stats. They simply demonstrate how you get the ball, not what you do with it. Despite spending less time I50 (and therefore pumping the ball into the forward 50 more often), and taking less marks, Buddy still managed to kick MORE goals in LESS games. Sure JR had more assists but taking into account the game differential, Buddy would have closed that gap anyway and further opened the gap on goals, I50s etc had they played the same amount of games.

However, as I said in the post you quoted, despite the stats NOT showing JR as having had a better year - let's ignore the stats and say he did. It is still absolutely fanciful of you to suggest that JR had a FAR BETTER year, which is what you initially said.

How are i50 marks irrelevant for a forward? That is one of the most relevant stats.
Also Franklin only played only 2 MORE GAMES. And Jack was involved in 83 goals to Franklins 69. He wasnt going to make up 14 goals in two games. Jack was the better forward, all the stats show it.
 
Why do I50 marks matter at all?
You can kick 50 goals from 0 inside 50 marks.
You can also kick goals from outside 50.
You've just chosen the stats that make Riewoldt's year look better than Franklins.

In reality neither of them deserved to make it over Roughead/Kennedy/Cameron.
Theres your 3 talls, add Thomas, Wingard and a leftover midfielder and you've got your forward 6 for the 22.

Because full forwards are supposed to take marks inside 50. The more marks inside 50, the more opportunities your team has. Why do you think they always ring up inside 50 marks for each team during the match? Because it shows how well your forwards and forward line is working.
Also I never said they did. I didn't Jack think was a chance, just thought Buddy once again gets rated higher than he should. Jack won the Coleman last year and couldn't even get in. Yet Buddy does with these very average stats?
 

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Re Hibberd, Libba and Hanley - AA regularly misses out on obvious first-time selections only to reward them the next year when they probably don't deserve it.

I know it's hard squeezing 60-80 players who have had great seasons into 40 and not saying I could do a better job, but always surprised how there seems to be a handful of questionable selections every year.

You could do a better job than them. Most people could.
 
How are i50 marks irrelevant for a forward? That is one of the most relevant stats.
Also Franklin only played only 2 MORE GAMES. And Jack was involved in 83 goals to Franklins 69. He wasnt going to make up 14 goals in two games. Jack was the better forward, all the stats show it.

The games he missed were Port Adelaide (out of form), Bulldogs (out of form), Saints (shit all year round). He could've quite easily got 20 or more goal involvements in these games
 
Because full forwards are supposed to take marks inside 50. The more marks inside 50, the more opportunities your team has. Why do you think they always ring up inside 50 marks for each team during the match? Because it shows how well your forwards and forward line is working.
Also I never said they did. I didn't Jack think was a chance, just thought Buddy once again gets rated higher than he should. Jack won the Coleman last year and couldn't even get in. Yet Buddy does with these very average stats?

So why compare to Buddy who plays CHF? on stats that are vital for FF?
I agree that Buddy doesnt deserve to be there, but you're comparing apples and oranges and doing it on the basis of acidity. Ofcourse the orange is going to win, its a citrus!
 
LOL that North who finished 10th have 4 nominations yet Tigers and Blues who will both play finals have zero.

That's ok, based on North's season they are way out in front when the result is still being determined, but will have nothing to show for it once the siren sounds (when team of 22 announced)....

ps - just having a laugh, actually agree that Norf at least had more individually standout players than Carlton.

Only Carlton player I feel is stiff on missing the 40 is is Walker. And maaaaybe Henderson, but possibly a victim of being swingman (demands a place neither as back or fwd).
 
The games he missed were Port Adelaide (out of form), Bulldogs (out of form), Saints (shit all year round). He could've quite easily got 20 or more goal involvements in these games

He was averaged 3 goals a game, and 0.5 goal assists. Do the math. Also Jack Missed the Essendon game when Essendon had given up. Even A.Edwards kicked 4 goals that game
 
How are i50 marks irrelevant for a forward? That is one of the most relevant stats.
Also Franklin only played only 2 MORE GAMES. And Jack was involved in 83 goals to Franklins 69. He wasnt going to make up 14 goals in two games. Jack was the better forward, all the stats show it.

Marks are irrelevant because what you do with the ball is what counts. Not how you get it. Despite taking less marks, Franklin still kicked more goals and also put the ball inside 50 far more all while playing less games.

The stats show nothing of the sort to indicate he was better. However, for the 3rd time I will allow you to take the stance he was better and ask you again to demonstrate why he was FAR BETTER, which is what you said. It's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other and as DangerSloane indicated, neither played well enough to get into the final team anyway. If one was better than the other it's marginal either way - based on stats and simply watching their output for the year without the benefit of any statistical data. However, you said JR had a FAR BETTER year. I say you're talking complete and utter BS.
 
I'd have the 2 key forward slots to Roughead & Cloke. They have been significantly better than the next closest KPF.
 
I seriously can't believe people are questioning Mackenzie's place in the squad. He, Taylor and Thompson (leaving out McPharlin due to injury) have been far and away the standout KPD's this year.

People who question his spot don't watch West Coast games or they're statisticians working for the AFL and rate lockdown defenders somewhere in the 200-300 AFL players range.
 
Marks are irrelevant because what you do with the ball is what counts. Not how you get it. Despite taking less marks, Franklin still kicked more goals and also put the ball inside 50 far more all while playing less games.

The stats show nothing of the sort to indicate he was better. However, for the 3rd time I will allow you to take the stance he was better and ask you again to demonstrate why he was FAR BETTER, which is what you said. It's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other and as DangerSloane indicated, neither played well enough to get into the final team anyway. If one was better than the other it's marginal either way - based on stats and simply watching their output for the year without the benefit of any statistical data. However, you said JR had a FAR BETTER year. I say you're talking complete and utter BS.

Jack was involved in 14 more goals. Thats enough to put him over the line. And marks are very relevant for a forward. A full forwards main job is to mark the ball inside 50 then kick goals.
 

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I'd have the 2 key forward slots to Roughead & Cloke. They have been significantly better than the next closest KPF.
Cloke, Cameron and Kennedy have been about equal this season IMO. But I would have Roughead a notch above those three. I think next season's Coleman race will be one of the closest yet with so many quality key forwards; Roughead, Kennedy, Cloke, Cameron, J.Riewoldt, Franklin, N.Riewoldt, Hawkins, Walker, Darling, Tippett, Schulz, Pavlich if he can manage a full season. Really exciting.
 
Cloke, Cameron and Kennedy have been about equal this season

Kennedy & Cameron fell off at the end of season whereas Cloke kept on going.

Contested marks. Cloke 55 (1st by 7 league wide), Kennedy 34, Cameron 20.
Marks inside 50. Cloke 97 (1st by 25 league wide), Kennedy 62, Cameron 47.
Marks. Cloke 183 (2nd league wide), Kennedy 143, Cameron 106.
Goals. Cloke 66 (highest average of any player), Kennedy 60, Cameron 62 (1 more game).

Cloke & Roughead are neck to neck than a fair gap to the next KPF.
 
Thomas, as the leading small forward scorer in the comp, was always going to make the squad.

Only a moron would think otherwise.


WTF?? I thought the best small forwards are that good they play them in the middle where they can have more impact with more ball like Wingard.

Frankly I would prefer Walters to Thomas anyway. You can't take to much notice of forwards in teams that play shoot out footy like North with no defense because their playing style inflate their stats in the forward line!!:cool:
 
Jesus a lot's been made of Cotchin apparently having a down year but despite all the claims of how good a year Boak's been having I'd venture Cotchin has impacted more heavily across the season than he has. And Swan, who has been inconsistent but to make sure Eddie doesn't cry he's in to.

Crock of sh*t.

Swan's averaging 31 disposals. Cotchin 26.
Swan's scored 18 goals. Cotchin 4.

Yep. Only in because of Eddie though.
 
Kennedy & Cameron fell off at the end of season whereas Cloke kept on going.

Contested marks. Cloke 55 (1st by 7 league wide), Kennedy 34, Cameron 20.
Marks inside 50. Cloke 97 (1st by 25 league wide), Kennedy 62, Cameron 47.
Marks. Cloke 183 (2nd league wide), Kennedy 143, Cameron 106.
Goals. Cloke 66 (highest average of any player), Kennedy 60, Cameron 62 (1 more game).

Cloke & Roughead are neck to neck than a fair gap to the next KPF.
It's not all about marks. You also have to take into consideration the pressure they apply to the opposition and what they do when they don't have the ball.

Tackles:

Kennedy - 69
Roughead - 55
Cameron - 27
Cloke - 27

And assists:

Roughead - 18
Kennedy - 17
Cameron - 11
Cloke - 7
 
How so? By playing more games, as a deeper forward, and not only understandably having less disposals, but also less goals? Add in less tackles and less I50s. JR has more goal assists.

Stats aren't the be and and end all as we often hear so let's exclude them for a minute and assume that JR has had a better year than Franklin > now go ahead and explain how he has had a FAR BETTER year.


JR is the only genuine third tall of high quality in the comp, particularly on that can play deep pocket floater.

He should be like Pav was and Cox was automatic selections every year. Likewise SJ on HFF because there simply isn't enough quality HFF going around except now Martin.

Fyfe almost comes an automatic selection on a wing with Pendlebury because their isn't enough quality high end wingman around either.

Franklin is either FF, HFF and he hasn't been good enough in either IMO given Hawks success!
 
It's not all about marks. You also have to take into consideration the pressure they apply to the opposition and what they do when they don't have the ball.

Tackles:

Kennedy - 69
Roughead - 55
Cameron - 27
Cloke - 27

And assists:

Roughead - 18
Kennedy - 17
Cameron - 11
Cloke - 7

For me Kennedy no brainer FF and Cameron CHF. You can ignore some of those stats for cameron because the ball was hardly ever in their forward line and assist wise his fellow forwards are still developing!!

Roughhead is the clear CHB for mine because he is so good he plays CHF/powerFF because the key forwards and backs in general are so weak
 
That's ok, based on North's season they are way out in front when the result is still being determined, but will have nothing to show for it once the siren sounds (when team of 22 announced)....

ps - just having a laugh, actually agree that Norf at least had more individually standout players than Carlton.

Only Carlton player I feel is stiff on missing the 40 is is Walker. And maaaaybe Henderson, but possibly a victim of being swingman (demands a place neither as back or fwd).
Walker was really Carlton's best player this year? I didn't see a lot of them so I don't know.

I thought BF consensus would say that Simpson was their standout player this year?
 
Just got to look at it for the first time and noted Mike Pyke's omission. I would have thought his ability to take contested grabs and kick goals would have had him in strong contention as the supporting ruck. At least in the top 40.

Given they have only named 2 ruckmen, you can be almost certain they will use Roughead as the second ruckmen. He is the only one (other than Goldy/Wilbur) that they have given the hit out stats to.

Personally I think that sells him short - he deserves his spot due to his flexibility and elite season as a combination of midfielder and key forward. Still it will give the AA selectors a good reason to only pick 1 ruckmen

Which given the lack of depth in quality rucks this year is fair enough.
 

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All Australian 2013: 40 Man Squad

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