All things Politics

[petrie pie]

I'd be surprised if people genuinely believe that the killing of the aid workers was a mistake.

The IDF have butchered 12,500 children, presumably because they are the future of resistance, so why wouldn't they murder the people trying to keep the enemy alive?

The logic of genocide is a bit brutal, but it's clear enough.

What is damning though for the IDF is that the 3 vehicles were 1.5 kilometres apart from the 1st car to the last car pretty hard to say you were not actually doing it on purpose.

 

[sr36]

More weasel words from Albo. The UN and others condemning the attack that killed the Australian aid worker, whereas Albo qualifies his feeble comments with 'and of course PM Netanyahu has guaranteed full transparency in the investigation that's to take place' as though that's going to placate anybody and reassure us that the investigation will be totally above board. I hate Albo. If he has balls, they'd be the size of baby peas, the sort of testicles you'd expect to find on a new born child.

Yep. Stern words should have occurred in Oct the moment they started starving a civilian population and sanctions should have occurred months ago, but instead we put sanctions on the aid workers best placed to assist the civilians being starved and bombed.

It's been a morally bankrupt response from the get go.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

What is damning though for the IDF is that the 3 vehicles were 1.5 kilometres apart from the 1st car to the last car pretty hard to say you were not actually doing it on purpose.

Prior to Oct 7, I was anti Israel. I avoid posting in this tread now because I fear my feelings for that country have reached a negative extremity of no return. Every day the Palestinian deaths pile up and our insipid leaders express more faith in the Israeli governments ability and willingness to put an end to it all. 'Of course we want a ceasefire', Albo will say, 'but the hostages need to be returned first'. The man has learned nothing from this experience. I am so glad I didn't vote for him or his cohorts (or in fact anyone else).

 

[ellesbells]

One side uses a coward's tactics, the other side insane tactics, it's depressing just how awful we are as species.

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

One side uses a coward's tactics, the other side insane tactics, it's depressing just how awful we are as species.

Agreed.
History.
His story.
Her story.
Their story.
Never agree.
Agreed.
History...
Etc

 

[ZEV]

i think thats pretty obvious unless the 6 syrians who died in the attack were on holiday....

Perhaps you can share that information with your anti-Israel brother Petrie pie

 

[ZEV]

Prior to Oct 7, I was anti Israel. I avoid posting in this tread now because I fear my feelings for that country have reached a negative extremity of no return. Every day the Palestinian deaths pile up and our insipid leaders express more faith in the Israeli governments ability and willingness to put an end to it all. 'Of course we want a ceasefire', Albo will say, 'but the hostages need to be returned first'. The man has learned nothing from this experience. I am so glad I didn't vote for him or his cohorts (or in fact anyone else).

Let's be real, you were more than anti-Israel, you were making holocaust jokes seven years ago. You have some pretty subversice and sick views.

Only 3!! As Adolf Eichmann said when informed that 7 million of the 11 million Jews in Europe had been exterminated: 'There must be more! There must be more!'

Lets have a look at some more of your pre Oct 7 work

I don't have a problem with the Auschwitz cartoon to which you refer, because I do have a problem with the Jews arrogant and cruel treatment of the Palestinian people with whom they share a country.

The holocaust experience should have given the Israeli Jews an understanding of oppressed people. Instead they have seemed intent on wielding their power in the region and antagonising the Islamic groups that live amongst them and around them

The Jews are not working class.

The Thai prime minister has suggested the tourists should wear wrist bands so they can be monitored, evoking memories among Europeans of the Nazi treatment of Jews.

 

[Markfs]

More weasel words from Albo. The UN and others condemning the attack that killed the Australian aid worker, whereas Albo qualifies his feeble comments with 'and of course PM Netanyahu has guaranteed full transparency in the investigation that's to take place' as though that's going to placate anybody and reassure us that the investigation will be totally above board. I hate Albo. If he has balls, they'd be the size of baby peas, the sort of testicles you'd expect to find on a new born child.

baby peas....lol....a late night laugh.

you gotta love democracy. look at the choices in the USA. And look at the choices here. Dutton would struggle to shell his peas... He is trying so hard to ingratiate him with his masters.

i said early october that I couldnt understand what israel has got on australia. Is it just the locals? Is it some looming struggle ahead where we need Israel to survive? That is the company line being used by the apologists. It seems hardly worth saving western values if we have to stoop so low...

And we havent even reached the worst yet...

 

[Markfs]

i'm off to bed zevie. I'll expect your mossad research skills will deliver something in the morning...

 

[gouki88]

Mass rape? Babies heads being chopped off? Does it really matter if this may or may not have occurred? The terrorist attack and what Israel are up against is never mentioned by those pushing an agenda. It's not acknowledged. Look, I've said it before it's terrible what's happening in Gaza, but at least acknowledge what it's up against? Sort of a false equivalence to what Russia is up against BTW which I'm sure you couldn't give a hoot about.

Yes...?

 

[petrie pie]

You are an anti-semitic liar.

I note that you say nothing about the IDF shooting their fellow Jews when they had escaped capture and were waving white flags.Does a moral army do this I think not, I am very critical of Israel since Oct 7th and I think most right minded should be.

You have gone back and checked my posting history in this thread and called me an anti semitic liar when I am just posting facts maybe you should go back and check your own interpretations in this because many of them have no factual basis at all.
I noticed you have deviated from 6 million dead to 7 million dead well their is another fact which is wrong but 6 or 7 million it does not alter the fact that many innocent people died just like many Palestinians are now but does Israel care about them?.

I have said all along I am anti Zionist not anti Jewish but that falls on deaf ears because anyone who has the temerity to say anything which the Jewish lobby say,s is anti Israel is automatically anti Semitic.

There are no other people on this earth of ours who can match the Jewish people for a sense of self entitlement this is because they are told from very young they are God,s chosen people and when told I guess it shows in some of their actions.

By the way which moral army gunned down over a 100 and then ran them over with their tanks, same with the young Palestinian girl who they left alive long enough to be able to murder 2 more ambulance drivers.

My Friend I would back my truthfulness against your,s any day and you are not even in the same ballpark when it comes to a moral compass you are just another cheap Zionist.

PS did you know that 50 million people died in WW2 including 25 million Russians many of whom were innocent civilians but I bet you never mention them do you or 500,000 Gypsies.

 

[sideswipe]

I note that you say nothing about the IDF shooting their fellow Jews when they had escaped capture and were waving white flags.Does a moral army do this I think not, I am very critical of Israel since Oct 7th and I think most right minded should be.

You have gone back and checked my posting history in this thread and called me an anti semitic liar when I am just posting facts maybe you should go back and check your own interpretations in this because many of them have no factual basis at all.
I noticed you have deviated from 6 million dead to 7 million dead well their is another fact which is wrong but 6 or 7 million it does not alter the fact that many innocent people died just like many Palestinians are now but does Israel care about them?.

I have said all along I am anti Zionist not anti Jewish but that falls on deaf ears because anyone who has the temerity to say anything which the Jewish lobby say,s is anti Israel is automatically anti Semitic.

There are no other people on this earth of ours who can match the Jewish people for a sense of self entitlement this is because they are told from very young they are God,s chosen people and when told I guess it shows in some of their actions.

By the way which moral army gunned down over a 100 and then ran them over with their tanks, same with the young Palestinian girl who they left alive long enough to be able to murder 2 more ambulance drivers.

My Friend I would back my truthfulness against your,s any day and you are not even in the same ballpark when it comes to a moral compass you are just another cheap Zionist.

PS did you know that 50 million people died in WW2 including 25 million Russians many of whom were innocent civilians but I bet you never mention them do you or 500,000 Gypsies.

Here's a tip - when talking about this war, use "Israel/Israeli" instead of "Jewish" and avoid the sweeping generalisations.

PS: Your PS 50mio was around 20-35mio short.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Let's be real, you were more than anti-Israel, you were making holocaust jokes seven years ago. You have some pretty subversice and sick views.



Lets have a look at some more of your pre Oct 7 work

I don't deny any of those statements, but I take exception that the Eichmann comment was meant as a joke. Quite the reverse. It's about my horror at the image of a man so bereft of any morality regarding the value of human life, in this case the Jews. When probably proudly presented with the 7 million dead figures, instead of pleasure, he expresses anger, because the cull is is incomplete. I could ponder the existence of a modern day equivalent. This 'there must be more' attitude doesn't seem to have been confined to 1945.

The school I went to was 25% Jewish - not your orthodox jew, but wealthy and respectable people housed in the same inner Melbourne area. I was unaware or unconcerned with their backgrounds or religious affiliations. I was an atheist of atheist parents in a church of England school. Every boy, and there were only boys, was a cadet, a mini-military figure in my father's eyes, and a special spot had to be found for me in older boys' boy scouts, resulting in a year which I loathed. Meanwhile, the Jewish boys melted seamlessly into the tapestry of the school.

One of the boys, PeterC, was teased relentlessly by us, because he played the role of a goofy creature, a bit of a dummy, over the 4 years we knew him. He was Jewish, and i knew he was such, and we teased him, but it wasn't because of anything beyond that which he immediately presented on a daily basis. He was just the sort of kid who was made to be teased.

In Y12, PC borrowed my history notes for end of the year revision for the Yr 12 exams. He had tutors coming out of his ears, out of the pages of his books and borrowed notes, while I was the star history student destined for a high A, perhaps dux of the school and a listing in next years magazine. We were chalk and cheese in the academic world.

PC got an A for Australian History. In fact he got 4As, the fifth subject being English which was only marked to pass. I got 69%, a C. What my school for all its prestige hadn't taught me was exam technique, and the Australian History exam that year was a horror story that got lots of hot air afterwards on the talk back sessions. I recall an Economic's lecturer saying 'you don't have to know much to be only half right', but in this case only half knowing and less to write would have produced a better result.

I remember, a small group us school friends were invited for dinner at PC's house in Caulfield just before the exams. The home was a heavily fenced affair with intercoms and alarms, and grates on all the windows, several rows of sliding doors on entering the house. It was a mini fortress for me used to my quaint humble little white picket fence house in outer suburban Glen Waverley. Here, there were original Sydney Nolan's on the walls. Dad was a dental specialist of sorts and mum did something of obvious worth to the family too. Up to this point, PC was still the goofy one we knew, not the 4As, 'take you totally by surprise and never see you again' version that was to replace him.

When I reflect on it now, more than 50% of my immediate school social group were Jewish. I have never really given it nor the many associations on public transport that I had with the orthodox boys from the traditional school up the road much thought. The boys we didn't like were 'the greenies', the Catholic boys from Salesian College who got on and off the bus in some unearthly place, Jordanville or somewhere of that ilk

My direct experience with Israeli jews came when I was in Puri, India, accompanying a young Israel woman who basically had what was called a breakdown in the time it took us to walk down a beach. She was going to a bank to change traveller's checks, What the bank didn't count on was that she was going to produce a passport signed in English with a traveller's cheque signed in Hebrew. I won't bore you with the scene that followed, but she was dragged away in chains and took a very severe beating if not, as she claimed, r*ped at the hands of the police guards. We were sure that she was r*ped. Try and do something about it as an outsider!

For perhaps 2 weeks, I worked closely with three other young people from Israel, along with the police commissioner from Puri, to have this woman repatriated to Israel. Every hotel in town had banned her. She was very attractive and wandering around naked in what was one of the major Hindu pilgrimage sites in India. The police commissioner, who was incredibly cultured, had long conversations with the young Israeli folk about their geography, historical background and religion. But at the bottom of all his earnestness and concern, was the worry that the visit of the president of India, the first Sikh president of a country whose Hindu PM, Indira Gandhi, had just been assassinated by her Sikh guard, was occurring that month. There'd be street parades and ceremonies, all of which would require the tightest of security .I think all sorts for fear's plagued that chief commissioner's mind.

In the process of trying to assist this woman, I collaborated closely with several young Israelis, but also learned of a very strong Jewish community I never would have dreamed existed in Calcutta, who eventually hired a doctor to accompany her from Delhi to Bombay to by train, their destination the very small Israeli consulate (Israel had no embassy in India until 1992).The journey with her from the onset of the 'illness' to the train to Bombay was 7 weeks. Throughout this time the young woman was as mad and self effacing as I have ever seen anyone.

I was impressed by the young Isreali's who banded together to rescue one of their own kind. Not only by the obvious camaraderie or connection that came just from being mutually Jewish, but the steely resolve to set aside whatever else might be happening in their lives and devote their time and intellect to getting this girl to Israel. Similarly the Calcutta Jews, once aware of the situation, another story in itself, sprung into action to assist; there was a professional precision to the operation they devised that spared no expense and exerted significant power over Indian authority. Meanwhile through this madness the Israeli woman maintained a slight crush on me, and 25000 Puri pilgrims a day poured from buses and witnessed for a month scenes that I am sure were more readily recalled in later years than the temples dedicated to Lord Jagannath or the waters of Golden Beach into which women waded in their saris.

You got together a well picked bunch of quotes. What I am trying to say in my defence is that my comments are aimed at a country not the people, even if there are times individual people are going to do things in keeping with a certain stereotype l fight being formed in my mind. I understand there is a lot more to Israel than simply bombing the bejeesus out of Palestinians daily. I also know that much of the good I have seen done by Jewish people has been for others in their group or themselves. In this instance, Israel now has to show a fraction of the empathy it shows for itself to the Palestinian people. Obviously there are Jewish people who do not support the bombing. I see it when I walk the NDIS beagle around St Kilda and see signs in windows or doors like' 'Jewish people who support ceasefire'.

 

[petrie pie]

Here's a tip - when talking about this war, use "Israel/Israeli" instead of "Jewish" and avoid the sweeping generalisations.

PS: Your PS 50mio was around 20-35mio short.

I used Israel/Israeli plenty of times in my post and other times I used Jewish and I do not see a problem with it and as for sweeping generilisations well they have all been proven true and hard to deny.

I also think 50 million is the widely accepted figure but you are right it could be like Palestine now 33.000 and counting but unknown 1000,s under the rubble.

I do not think I need your tips,what might be helpful is if you and the other supporters of Israel here actually acknowledged that Israel is killing innocent people now just as Germany did during the war and they now starting shooting at foreign aid workers who are attempting to help the starving. Probably you are going to say like the Israeli Govt spokesmen they are letting the aid through but even Blicken doubts this after all even he says 100% are at risk of famine.

The world has not seen the like of Israel,s actions since the 2nd world war and the actions of certain Germans and I for the life of me fail to see the difference between the Germans of then and Israel now I know this is a hard thing too accept but more people see this for what it is.

The Israeli populace today is nothing like it was 30 or 40 yrs ago, you have people in the War Cabinet in Israel who are frothing at the mouth with their chance to destroy the Palestinians and want the the rest of the world to keep quiet about it and maybe we would if it was not so brazen.

I can tell you I will not be silenced by you or any else on this issue people need to know what Israel is doing now so there it is.

 

[Markfs]

oops...we hit that car......oops we hit another car about half a kilometre away .....oops we hit a third about a kilometre away from that one... one mistake or three mistakes. We need to get a security council resolution and a report on what constitutes a single mistake with multiple aspects and how that is differentiated from a multiple mistake. We need to get a firm definition on this. It's extremely important to the loved ones of the people who died in the mistake(s)

 

[sideswipe]

I used Israel/Israeli plenty of times in my post and other times I used Jewish and I do not see a problem with it and as for sweeping generilisations well they have all been proven true and hard to deny.

I also think 50 million is the widely accepted figure but you are right it could be like Palestine now 33.000 and counting but unknown 1000,s under the rubble.

I do not think I need your tips,what might be helpful is if you and the other supporters of Israel here actually acknowledged that Israel is killing innocent people now just as Germany did during the war and they now starting shooting at foreign aid workers who are attempting to help the starving. Probably you are going to say like the Israeli Govt spokesmen they are letting the aid through but even Blicken doubts this after all even he says 100% are at risk of famine.

The world has not seen the like of Israel,s actions since the 2nd world war and the actions of certain Germans and I for the life of me fail to see the difference between the Germans of then and Israel now I know this is a hard thing too accept but more people see this for what it is.

The Israeli populace today is nothing like it was 30 or 40 yrs ago, you have people in the War Cabinet in Israel who are frothing at the mouth with their chance to destroy the Palestinians and want the the rest of the world to keep quiet about it and maybe we would if it was not so brazen.

I can tell you I will not be silenced by you or any else on this issue people need to know what Israel is doing now so there it is.

Point me to where I have shown support for Israel?

As for your “since WW2” assertions, you might be forgetting a few regimes- Khmer Rouge for a start?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jathanas]

I think that the optimum tax regime is kind of obvious, but would the government have the cojones to put it in place?

An axiomatic part of the public policy dimension of any taxation regime is the desire to disincentivise the behaviours that are undesirable through punitive taxation.

We should therefore levy severe taxes on

• people who have ponies, or who provide aid and comfort to ponies in all their forms
• people with strange food hatreds like hating pineapple on pizza
• anyone with inadequate calves

Just as a by the by jathanas the ATO would like to know your current approximate total wealth. For modelling purposes.

You can tease me about my calves and ridicule my refined taste in food but surely you understand that any talk of the ATO crosses a line.

Love you, Cheval, but please don't be such a cruel a*hole.

 

[gouki88]

Point me to where I have shown support for Israel?

As for your “since WW2” assertions, you might be forgetting a few regimes- Khmer Rouge for a start?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree with your issue with “since WW2…”, and similar kinds of arguments.

Unfortunately (quite tragically rather) there are plenty of examples of senseless & systemic violence on this scale - or even more extreme ones, as in Rwanda for example.

I think putting these events on pedestals can have some less than productive consequences.

 

[Markfs]

I've never seen world leaders so united..... they really want a full explanation as to why the aid workers died. I certainly agree that food distribution needs to be discontinued until we get to the bottom of this matter.

It's disappointing that israel has made a mistake on this occasion. Previously, it had only killed palestinian animals who were masquerading as aid workers. I dont think anyone in the world was too upset with a little bit of culling in that area.

We all know how those palestinians act in caulfield or hawthorn. I thought netinyahoo showed admirable restraint in not advising Albo to take care of his own animals in his backyard.

Fortunately, only one of the aid workers was part-time American. He had served with the canadian military in the past, so he wasnt a real american. The New York Post referred to him as an American aid worker but I think that's a mistake. We need to have a fully inquiry about just how much of an american he was.

As for Lalzawmi Frankcom, she had an Australian father and a Mizo mother. Mizos are a tribe from India, so I expect that the Israelis will point that out to Albo. We need to have a full inquiry about her father's heritage. There are elements of the Mizo people who have had connections with Judaism and while I'm not an expert, some of them want to move to Israel. This type of background will complicate the investigation. The fact that Lalzawmi was working for Palestinian interests is worrisome. It's just another example of Albo shooting his mouth off without looking into history.

I'm not an Israeli strategist on these kinds of things, so I'll leave it to Zevie to come up with a plan. However, it seems to me that the Israeli gov't should blame the commander and schedule a trial some time in the distant future. I know that will be unjust and painful to his family, but maybe a plot of land in judea after its been reclaimed from the current arab squatters might soothe the situation.

I think it's amazing how the israeli leadership has apologised for this accident. They dont usually do that and I think it's been overlooked by many of the haters in the media. Thankfully, the aid organisations have vacated the area and it shouldnt happen again.

 

[Markfs]

I like watching events that really matter and seeing how the people respond in them. And I dont mean what they say, it's more what they do. We've had a ton of words said over the last 6 months and much of it amounted to nothing.

It doesnt matter what biden has said recently, the key point is that he authorised weapons shipments to israel. There is a further even larger weapons shipment in the coming months. I'm sure israel doesnt like the discomfort of words, but it can tolerate them if it gets access to weapons.

Another key event is the presidential election. Nearly 50,000 Wisconsin democrat voters gave a null vote in the recent primary. It's twice as much as what biden defeated trump in that state. 8% of the votes cast. It's not insignificant. So will biden choose israel ahead of his own presidential aspirations?

Of course, things are never that simple. He will have his people out to determine how serious these voters are. Will they vote for someone else in the real thing? Will biden call their bluff....if it is a bluff.

And then there's wider questions. Is biden in it for the glory or the money. Many ex presidents are now living in luxury for some apparent reason. You can only ask why. I recently heard that the saudis gave jared kushner $2billion as a thank you. You only have to look at the job that Scomo is going to, to see that any "salary cap" imposed during a presidency can be overcome in the longterm. But Joe's over 80. How much money does he need? maybe to buy some justice for his son. Does he care if he is seen on the right side of history?

So I come back to the basis of this post. I like to watch these key events. The heat is on and some who aren't invested in the promised land are feeling the heat. However, other than some bad PR nothing has changed. The status quo is as it was 5 months ago. I think that Joe will believe that he can take the payoff and still win the election in 8 months time. A lot of it is going to depend on how fast the palestinians starve and how fast the world gets bored of the whole situation. I'm still confident. Shalom.

 

[ZEV]

We all know how those palestinians act in caulfield or hawthorn.

It's Hawthorn Road Mark. It's in Caulfield. It's the way you get to Hawthorn. It starts in East Brighton and ends at the top of Caulfield North. Then you go through Malvern, Toorak, Kooyong and Camberwell to get to Hawthorn.


Also not sure if the protestors were Palestinian.



Here is a pro-Palestinian supporter that appears to have some bladder issues.

Does anyone know what the 1453 tattoo represents? Maybe his pin code?

 

[Markfs]

It's Hawthorn Road Mark. It's in Caulfield. It's the way you get to Hawthorn. It starts in East Brighton and ends at the top of Caulfield North. Then you go through Malvern, Toorak, Kooyong and Camberwell to get to Hawthorn.


Also not sure if the protestors were Palestinian.

View attachment 1949332

Here is a pro-Palestinian supporter that appears to have some bladder issues.

Does anyone know what the 1453 tattoo represents? Maybe his pin code?

hamas then....i'm sure that they're funded by hamas.. through UNRWA

while we're swapping protests, here's a typical one... the deputy mayor is expressing similar concerns

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

Here is a pro-Palestinian supporter that appears to have some bladder issues.

Does anyone know what the 1453 tattoo represents? Maybe his pin code?

I am pretty sure you know the answer Zev but it is worth answering for those who don't

1453 was the year of the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman forces of Mehmet II, ending the last remnant of the Byzantine empire.

I would approach someone with a tattoo like this as around about as unhinged and dangerous as someone with a 1488 tattoo, or a full on roman eagle with SPQR and crossed fasces like a Lazio ultra, This is an agitator and no good will ever come of anything they do. Period.

 

[JB1975]

It may surprise many, but Israel and me are not at all shocked that humanitarian and aid types are now shirking their responsibility to be obliterated by the Israel Death Forces.

 

[ZEV]

It may surprise many, but Israel and me are not at all shocked that humanitarian and aid types are now shirking their responsibility to be obliterated by the Israel Death Forces.

I don't blame them.

Scale up UNRWA.