All things Politics

[Markfs]

You use a lot of words to say I don't care and find it amusing.

i didnt say that i found his death amusing. I made the point that the death of an aid worker had this response. I'm sure that you dont care what i think and I've made the point a number of times that people are making statements when actions are needed.

 

[Markfs]

i didnt know it was a war...i thought it was a massacre. Live and learn eh...

 

[Markfs]

In latest news israel is withdrawing some troops from central gaza....

"US National Security spokesman John Kirby said it appeared to be a "rest and refit" and "not necessarily... indicative of some coming new operation for these troops".

But later Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said the troops were leaving to "prepare for their follow-up missions".

He said their achievements in Khan Younis were "extremely impressive", adding that Hamas had ceased to function as a military organisation throughout Gaza."

I find it interesting that the US people are the people who give the reasons for israeli actions. I'm also surprised that israel has left Khan Younis but apparently, there are no hospitals or schools or mosques left there. Finally. it's interesting that the defence guy has said that hamas is not functioning as a military organisation. Does that mean, we can have a war with only one side? Shouldnt they rename the IDF, the police or the prison guards?

 

[JB1975]

Not you JB. I do enjoy your views and the good thing of not being politically aligned is I'm open to having my mind changed. For your cause I would say a 'War on Children' is most effective. I'll still argue that Australia is irrelevant to this conflict. Israel have a justified means to go to war, it's just its been predictably despicable how their government and it's army has conducted itself which I've acknowledged from the outset of the War.

It would be nice if people acknowledged what it's up against a bit more in here.

'War on Children' is very affective for your cause.

I have 'a cause', it seems. I won't get into that one.

But I can't take the credit for the apparent effectiveness of the phrase 'War on Children'. Credit belongs to the Israeli Death Cult.

Really, if they hadn't obliterated the lives of over 12,000 children and mutilated and orphaned thousands more, how 'affective' do you think the phrase would be?

 

[Markfs]

I have 'a cause', it seems. I won't get into that one.

But I can't take the credit for the apparent effectiveness of the phrase 'War on Children'. Credit belongs to the Israeli Death Cult.

Really, if they hadn't obliterated the lives of over 12,000 children and mutilated and orphaned thousands more, how 'affective' do you think the phrase would be?

well coming from a politically unaligned person like myself, I think you underestimate your ability to spot a headline for your cause. You might get an invite into the famed israeli PR dept in the coming years....and follow in the footsteps of the great mark regev...

 

[Markfs]

So the Israelis have moved on....probably to prepare for Hezbollah...



This female reporter might be in a bit of trouble. I dont like her chances of surviving the next few months...she needs to be more respectful of her masters...

 

[Markfs]

Things are developing on the international front.

Nicaragua has taken Germany to the International Court for selling arms to Israel. It has increased arms sales by 10 fold in the last year.

Why not take the main offender, the US. Well it seems that they are engaged in other areas. The US likes to be in charge in Nicaragua and the current President there is the same Daniel Ortega who was there when Reagan was running the show. Oldies would remember Daniel. It seems that the US has put sanctions on Nic and Daniel has been having his own fun, selling visas to perspective immigants to the mex-usa border. A win-win of making money and causing the US max discomfort. So Nic takes Germany to court.

Read about it, it's a fascinating read and it may indicate that countries are lining up on opposing sides.

Meanwhile Ireland is intervening in Israel court matter, putting further pressure. You will remember that the Irish prime minister has recently resigned....out of the blue....what side was he on? The grass level support for the palestinians in Ireland is well known. Maybe someone with more knowledge can call which way the irish will go. Is the new PM going to come to heel? I think it might be more the opposite.

And here we are, Australia, with all our eggs in the US basket. I realise that the world is a nasty place but have we picked the best of the worst? Do Australians have any idea what corner we are being edged into?

 

[sr36]

Things are developing on the international front.

Nicaragua has taken Germany to the International Court for selling arms to Israel. It has increased arms sales by 10 fold in the last year.

Why not take the main offender, the US. Well it seems that they are engaged in other areas. The US likes to be in charge in Nicaragua and the current President there is the same Daniel Ortega who was there when Reagan was running the show. Oldies would remember Daniel. It seems that the US has put sanctions on Nic and Daniel has been having his own fun, selling visas to perspective immigants to the mex-usa border. A win-win of making money and causing the US max discomfort. So Nic takes Germany to court.

Read about it, it's a fascinating read and it may indicate that countries are lining up on opposing sides.

Meanwhile Ireland is intervening in Israel court matter, putting further pressure. You will remember that the Irish prime minister has recently resigned....out of the blue....what side was he on? The grass level support for the palestinians in Ireland is well known. Maybe someone with more knowledge can call which way the irish will go. Is the new PM going to come to heel? I think it might be more the opposite.

And here we are, Australia, with all our eggs in the US basket. I realise that the world is a nasty place but have we picked the best of the worst? Do Australians have any idea what corner we are being edged into?

It's going to be an interesting few decades ahead. The only given is that China's power and influence will grow - who's going to be their first "Western" recruit?

We're fully entrenched alongside the Yanks and have given up the humanitarian, morally superior card that we've tried to brandish for the last century. Yanks will be strong enough to see out our lifetimes Mark - not sure about our kids.

 

[Markfs]

It's going to be an interesting few decades ahead. The only given is that China's power and influence will grow - who's going to be their first "Western" recruit?

We're fully entrenched alongside the Yanks and have given up the humanitarian, morally superior card that we've tried to brandish for the last century. Yanks will be strong enough to see out our lifetimes Mark - not sure about our kids.

yeh i'm not worried about myself. I dont think anyone is going to jump out from under my bed in the next few years...

and in some respects, it seem to be a race to the bottom. I'm not too impressed with the chinese approach and I'm totally against the push of fundamentalist religions. It might be another dark ages.

 

[ZEV]

It's going to be an interesting few decades ahead. The only given is that China's power and influence will grow - who's going to be their first "Western" recruit?

We're fully entrenched alongside the Yanks and have given up the humanitarian, morally superior card that we've tried to brandish for the last century. Yanks will be strong enough to see out our lifetimes Mark - not sure about our kids.

Given your experience, expertise and understanding of China I thought you might be the most appropriate to ask...

Hypothetically, if the US were to cease it's ongoing exclusive defence deal with Israel, what would the PRC offer to Israel for an inside peak into US military tech?

 

[sr36]

yeh i'm not worried about myself. I dont think anyone is going to jump out from under my bed in the next few years...

and in some respects, it seem to be a race to the bottom. I'm not too impressed with the chinese approach and I'm totally against the push of fundamentalist religions. It might be another dark ages.

I'm not impressed by China's approach either (more optimistic about their post Xi future though). I was more suggesting that money will give them power and thus countries will align themselves there.

 

[JB1975]

Our Australian perspective is partial at best and generally subservient to the interests of Israel.

It's important to know that most of the rest of the world doesn't think like us.

 

[sr36]

Given your experience, expertise and understanding of China I thought you might be the most appropriate to ask...

Hypothetically, if the US were to cease it's ongoing exclusive defence deal with Israel, what would the PRC offer to Israel for an inside peak into US military tech?

I like the way you think Zev. That would be an interesting development, but I have no idea.

The question is though are the States still ahead in the military technology stakes - it'll all be shifting to AI and China went all in on AI well ahead of everyone else.

The other question is would China do it. It'd piss off the entire world pretty much. I doubt there'd be enough gain.

 

[Markfs]

Our Australian perspective is partial at best and generally subservient to the interests of Israel.

It's important to know that most of the rest of the world doesn't think like us.

If you look a bit further up the page, I noted that the irish PM resigned out of the blue....and I was wondering if it had anything to do with the palestinian issue....and around that time, ireland sought to intervene on the south african matter...

and so now we find out that the new PM is going to go hard....the irish are said to be very strong on this..

this whole issue is fraying the neatly packed american foreign policy....but I think the israelis will continue with the plan.

‘We Are Repulsed’ - Ireland’s Fine Gael Leader Slams Israel’s Actions in Gaza

Simon Harris, leader of Ireland's Fine Gael party, says the Irish people are "repulsed" by Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu's actions in Gaza.

www.palestinechronicle.com

 

[Markfs]

Another youngsta in charge....what's happening in europe?

 

[petrie pie]

It's really cool, that the guy who's been suspended from the thread for abuse on a number of occasions assures us all that he's the biggest victim.

He is a total hypocrite as are most of the Israeli apologists in this thread,this has long since been about revenge this is genocide on an industrial scale and has been from the start.

As for the Americans I think this has damaged them more than they like believe it will,they are no longer seen as a moral compass for the world. The last 2 presidents have made their country a laughing stock and the dreadful thing the choice between Trump and Biden will hasten their decline.

Is there much difference between Xi and Putin and the warmonger Biden I do not think so, and Trump well none of us know what he is capable of.

 

[sr36]

If you look a bit further up the page, I noted that the irish PM resigned out of the blue....and I was wondering if it had anything to do with the palestinian issue....and around that time, ireland sought to intervene on the south african matter...

and so now we find out that the new PM is going to go hard....the irish are said to be very strong on this..

this whole issue is fraying the neatly packed american foreign policy....but I think the israelis will continue with the plan.

‘We Are Repulsed’ - Ireland’s Fine Gael Leader Slams Israel’s Actions in Gaza

Simon Harris, leader of Ireland's Fine Gael party, says the Irish people are "repulsed" by Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu's actions in Gaza.

www.palestinechronicle.com

I think it's all backfiring massively for Bibi - the world is on the verge of recoginising Palestine and declaring it a country. And then it'll come to be.

 

[Markfs]

I think it's all backfiring massively for Bibi - the world is on the verge of recoginising Palestine and declaring it a country. And then it'll come to be.

There's a lot of elected people in the US who have been provided for....and only the voter will cause them to jump ship....but I must admit that momentum is heading in a positive direction...even our people are getting brave.

It probably answers my original question as to why we were supporting the israel/usa line.....gutlessness. Maybe biden has let the dogs out. Israel wont go away quietly. I still think a regional war is more likely than a palestinian state.

 

[sr36]

There's a lot of elected people in the US who have been provided for....and only the voter will cause them to jump ship....but I must admit that momentum is heading in a positive direction...even our people are getting brave.

It probably answers my original question as to why we were supporting the israel/usa line.....gutlessness. Maybe biden has let the dogs out. Israel wont go away quietly. I still think a regional war is more likely than a palestinian state.

Very frustrating, as they knew from the start, but needed to be far more direct than the wishy washy "how they defend themselves matters."

Israel has a right to defend itself, but denying food and water to a civilian population is a war crime and collective punishment.

They should have been talking war crimes from the moment Israel started their starvation strategy. They announced to the world that they were going to commit a war crime and then started to commit it and have been commiting it for 6 months - and we still haven't called it out.

 

[ZEV]

i didnt say that i found his death amusing. I made the point that the death of an aid worker had this response. I'm sure that you dont care what i think and I've made the point a number of times that people are making statements when actions are needed.

You didn't say anything about how you felt about it.

You went on one of your ignorant rants trying to make comparisons and justify the cold blooded kidnap and execution of a man.

 

[JB1975]

The discussion this morning is around Penny Wong's suggestion of the need to recognise a Palestinian state.

---------------------------------------------

She acknowledged concerns from the Zionist Federation of Australia, which said recognising Palestinian statehood so soon after the October 7 Hamas attack would reward those actions.

“My point is a longer-term point: what is the path to peace? I don’t see, ultimately, any security for Israel without the issue of Palestinian statehood being resolved,” she said.

Wong said other countries in the region, such as Saudi Arabia, had said they would not normalise their relationship with Israel until Palestinian statehood was recognised.

“There is no peace, in the long term, unless this issue is resolved,” she said.

---------------------------------------------

I'm not convinced of Australia's commitment to the issue, but (a) I'm convinced that Israel's campaign has created a stronger push for Palestinian statehood among other countries, and (b) Wong's comments at least demonstrate a willingness to work within a broader consensus (if one ever emerges).

 

[vindaloo]

He is a total hypocrite as are most of the Israeli apologists in this thread,this has long since been about revenge this is genocide on an industrial scale and has been from the start.

As for the Americans I think this has damaged them more than they like believe it will,they are no longer seen as a moral compass for the world. The last 2 presidents have made their country a laughing stock and the dreadful thing the choice between Trump and Biden will hasten their decline.

Is there much difference between Xi and Putin and the warmonger Biden I do not think so, and Trump well none of us know what he is capable of.

Whoa this is unhinged especially the last paragraph.

 

[JB1975]

Jon Stewart isn't interested in doing anything new, but I appreciate his temperament.

The discussion of US verbal and moral gymnastics in relation to Israel (from 6mins) is quite alright.

 

[sr36]

The discussion this morning is around Penny Wong's suggestion of the need to recognise a Palestinian state.

---------------------------------------------

She acknowledged concerns from the Zionist Federation of Australia, which said recognising Palestinian statehood so soon after the October 7 Hamas attack would reward those actions.

“My point is a longer-term point: what is the path to peace? I don’t see, ultimately, any security for Israel without the issue of Palestinian statehood being resolved,” she said.

Wong said other countries in the region, such as Saudi Arabia, had said they would not normalise their relationship with Israel until Palestinian statehood was recognised.

“There is no peace, in the long term, unless this issue is resolved,” she said.

---------------------------------------------

I'm not convinced of Australia's commitment to the issue, but (a) I'm convinced that Israel's campaign has created a stronger push for Palestinian statehood among other countries, and (b) Wong's comments at least demonstrate a willingness to work within a broader consensus (if one ever emerges).

Not just Penny. The Irish guy that you posted. Plus talks of a new application for representation at the UN - it's only been the US Veto that has stopped them being represented - they've had the votes for years - with about 3 fifths of countries recognising them. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Yanks let it go through with the way this is playing out - a Palestiniain state has long been their preference. It's time to ignore Israel's requests. Recognise Palestine as a state and give them a seat at the UN. It won't change anything in the short term, but will make a Palestinian state more likely in the long run.

 

[JB1975]

Whoa this is unhinged especially the last paragraph.

Before attacking, you might want to think about the nature of an international rules-based order. It's a fragile thing which relies on countries observing rules and norms.

If the greatest champion of this order is also one of its greatest saboteurs, on what basis can we expect countries such as Iran, Russia and China to behave any differently?

The alternative is to consider quaint notions such as human rights as irrelevant, a fig leaf on the exercise of power, an unrealistic set of values, in which case the question becomes: On what basis can we criticise Russia for its actions in Ukraine, or China in its intimidation of Taiwan or its treatment of minority populations?

Perhaps you believe that the actions of the US are so much more virtuous than China and Russia, but other parts of the world are convinced that America has been nothing but a hypocritical force for self-interest for decades...and they're actually right.