All things Politics

[Markfs]

It may surprise many, but Israel and me are not at all shocked that humanitarian and aid types are now shirking their responsibility to be obliterated by the Israel Death Forces.

i think it's a relief to see some progress. It was disturbing to see these private associations try to disrupt a strategic plan. I know that they were well-meaning and were largely ineffectual, but the quicker we get to the point of starvation, the better it will be those putting in place the plans for the future.

 

[Markfs]

Something to help those defending israel....if you havent got it already....shalom

 

[Mauvais Cheval]

You can tease me about my calves and ridicule my refined taste in food but surely you understand that any talk of the ATO crosses a line.

Love you, Cheval, but please don't be such a cruel a*hole.

My humblest apologies J, on reflection the ATO are indeed worse than ponies, and you have not yet engaged in conduct that would justify such unspeakableness.












Yet.....




I will send recompense carrots and a belly button lint sculpture of you with enhanced calves as a peace offering.

 

[sr36]

There are no other people on this earth of ours who can match the Jewish people for a sense of self entitlement this is because they are told from very young they are God,s chosen people and when told I guess it shows in some of their actions.

Paragraphs like this are why you're getting the pushback.

This isn't about the Israeli government. It's far more encompassing.

 

[Markfs]

Paragraphs like this are why you're getting the pushback.

This isn't about the Israeli government. It's far more encompassing.

It is an interesting conversation...and some of it results from what constitutes a "jew".

Let me use myself as an example, so I dont upset the apologists. I was born in australia and I was baptised a roman catholic. I have a passport that states that I'm australian, and i have it primarily because it is the only passport that I can get. I have consistently stated for a number of decades that i'm agnostic or atheist or more accurately, i dont believe in the invented religions. This is independent of what my parents believe. In the case of Israel, people are considered jewish if their mother is jewish....end of story. A person can give away the religion entirely but the israeli gov't would always consider them jewish.

It seems that wiki, at least, considers some ethnic element to being jewish, which is somehow independent of the religious interpretation. I would presume that this would mean that a longterm jewish resident from palestine would have some ethnic tie in common with european jews....or those in america and australia. And i'm not referring to a religious cultural practice, because my reference point is a person from a jewish family who has rejected his religion.

Going back to me, that would be similar, I presume, to me not eating meat during Lent....and therefore having some connection with roman catholics...a religion that I completely dismiss. Maybe celebrating christmas would suffice. Would I have a cultural connection with an african catholic because we both celebrate christmas? Bizarre.

Whoopi Goldberg is an interesting test case. Her parents surnames were not goldberg but whoopi insists that the name is in her family history. She did a DNA test and it appears she has no jewish connection, although she swears by it. Independent of this, she claimed on tv that the holocaust was not about race, because the people involved were all europeans. However, those in power didnt like that concept and suspended her from TV. Some brave souls suggested that prejudice against jews was more a form of bigotry, although that normally rests on a person's beliefs. And, for example, to return to my situation, would it be possible for me to experience bigotry if I have given up the religion? I could certainly be abused for receiving my first communion and being confirmed.....but i'd probably laugh at the person abusing me. I would expect an ex-adherer to judaism to be in the same boat....but of course, are they ever ex? The israeli gov't thinks not....and evidently even those who have given up judaism think not.

I've seen some comments in here that it's racist to assume that a jewish american has the same views as a jewish israeli. But I would argue that its difficult to make that accusation when there's a good change that the israeli originally came from new york. A generalisation like this might be termed unsophisticated or clunky, but how is it racism.

As a child, I've always wanted to be told the reasons for why I should do something. The rules should be transparent. In general, I'm happy to ignore this group of people entirely if they dont want me to communicate with them. If communication depends on some arbitrary decisions based on me saying the "wrong" wording or using the "wrong" classification, then i have a general rule that I just ignore them. However, currently israel is murdering innocent civilians and I want to have a say in this behaviour.

 

[petrie pie]

I quoted 5 your posts and called you an anti-semitic liar because you said this below.



Which you clearly did. What I should have called you is a lying, anti-semitic idiot but I chose not too.

You selectively pick and choose what you will answer and we all know the reason why to cast aspersions on any one who any difficult questions surrounding Israel.

You also ignore any direct questioning of Israel,s motives or methods ie the flour massacre the young girl and the ambulance drivers and now we see you trying to make jokes about the IDF shooting at aid workers,you think it is a joke then wonder why people get irate, you need to look at yourself closely.

 

[petrie pie]

Paragraphs like this are why you're getting the pushback.

This isn't about the Israeli government. It's far more encompassing.

The truth hurts sometimes,and if this is not about the present Israeli govt what is it about.
I also do not understand your comment about more encompassing what is my belief about people of the Jewish faith believing they are god.s chosen people is that not what it say,s in the bible and Jewish people believe it 100%.

 

[petrie pie]

It is an interesting conversation...and some of it results from what constitutes a "jew".

Let me use myself as an example, so I dont upset the apologists. I was born in australia and I was baptised a roman catholic. I have a passport that states that I'm australian, and i have it primarily because it is the only passport that I can get. I have consistently stated for a number of decades that i'm agnostic or atheist or more accurately, i dont believe in the invented religions. This is independent of what my parents believe. In the case of Israel, people are considered jewish if their mother is jewish....end of story. A person can give away the religion entirely but the israeli gov't would always consider them jewish.

It seems that wiki, at least, considers some ethnic element to being jewish, which is somehow independent of the religious interpretation. I would presume that this would mean that a longterm jewish resident from palestine would have some ethnic tie in common with european jews....or those in america and australia. And i'm not referring to a religious cultural practice, because my reference point is a person from a jewish family who has rejected his religion.

Going back to me, that would be similar, I presume, to me not eating meat during Lent....and therefore having some connection with roman catholics...a religion that I completely dismiss. Maybe celebrating christmas would suffice. Would I have a cultural connection with an african catholic because we both celebrate christmas? Bizarre.

Whoopi Goldberg is an interesting test case. Her parents surnames were not goldberg but whoopi insists that the name is in her family history. She did a DNA test and it appears she has no jewish connection, although she swears by it. Independent of this, she claimed on tv that the holocaust was not about race, because the people involved were all europeans. However, those in power didnt like that concept and suspended her from TV. Some brave souls suggested that prejudice against jews was more a form of bigotry, although that normally rests on a person's beliefs. And, for example, to return to my situation, would it be possible for me to experience bigotry if I have given up the religion? I could certainly be abused for receiving my first communion and being confirmed.....but i'd probably laugh at the person abusing me. I would expect an ex-adherer to judaism to be in the same boat....but of course, are they ever ex? The israeli gov't thinks not....and evidently even those who have given up judaism think not.

I've seen some comments in here that it's racist to assume that a jewish american has the same views as a jewish israeli. But I would argue that its difficult to make that accusation when there's a good change that the israeli originally came from new york. A generalisation like this might be termed unsophisticated or clunky, but how is it racism.

As a child, I've always wanted to be told the reasons for why I should do something. The rules should be transparent. In general, I'm happy to ignore this group of people entirely if they dont want me to communicate with them. If communication depends on some arbitrary decisions based on me saying the "wrong" wording or using the "wrong" classification, then i have a general rule that I just ignore them. However, currently israel is murdering innocent civilians and I want to have a say in this behaviour.

Mark you should read about the Falashours the Black Jews from Ethiopia and their struggle to be accepted as Jewish Israel states that anyone with a Jewish mother is immediately accepted as an Israeli except those people perhaps. Well done for having your say if we all did we may even equal the Fascists from the ot5her side of this debate.

 

[petrie pie]

Point me to where I have shown support for Israel?

As for your “since WW2” assertions, you might be forgetting a few regimes- Khmer Rouge for a start?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well you were quite happy to put up counter arguments to what I said by attempting to stop me putting my point about Israel killing Innocent civilians in all sorts of evil means.If as you claim where have you shown support for Israel,why don,t you condemn them for some things they are doing.

 

[sr36]

The truth hurts sometimes,and if this is not about the present Israeli govt what is it about.
I also do not understand your comment about more encompassing what is my belief about people of the Jewish faith believing they are god.s chosen people is that not what it say,s in the bible and Jewish people believe it 100%.

The bolded is another example.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, but you keep saying that your issue is only with Zionism in Israel, and not Jews as a whole, but you keep making generalisations that are worded as though they are about the entire Jewish diaspora.

It's a very diverse group in terms of belief - like the communities with a Christian background, it ranges from atheist right through to fundamentalist.

Your generalisations are inaccurate and often disparaging. And thus what you write will be viewed as anti-Semitic.

You keep saying that you're not anti-Semitic, I'm just letting you know why what you're writing will continue to be viewed as anti-Semitic. And it's not because you're critical of Israel. It's because you write negative generalisations that are worded as though they are about all Jews.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

The bolded is another example.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, but you keep saying that your issue is only with Zionism in Israel, and not Jews as a whole, but you keep making generalisations that are worded as though they are about the entire Jewish diaspora.

It's a very diverse group in terms of belief - like the communities with a Christian background, it ranges from atheist right through to fundamentalist.

Your generalisations are inaccurate and often disparaging. And thus what you write will be viewed as anti-Semitic.

You keep saying that you're not anti-Semitic, I'm just letting you know why what you're writing will continue to be viewed as anti-Semitic. And it's not because you're critical of Israel. It's because you write negative generalisations that are worded as though they are about all Jews.

Well-written

 

[noideaatall]

...

There are no other people on this earth of ours who can match the Jewish people for a sense of self entitlement this is because they are told from very young they are God,s chosen people and when told I guess it shows in some of their actions.

...

A minor side point of order. Many, many groups of people are told from very young they have a special relationship with God - however they may conceive God to be. That is the nature of exclusive religious beliefs. This statement is inaccurate, paints a diverse group of people with the colors of a percentage of the group, not the totality. Stick to prosecuting the actions of Israel, rather than broad generalizations on the nature of Jewish people. They are not on trial, it is the State of Israel that should be examined.

 

[Markfs]

Mark you should read about the Falashours the Black Jews from Ethiopia and their struggle to be accepted as Jewish Israel states that anyone with a Jewish mother is immediately accepted as an Israeli except those people perhaps. Well done for having your say if we all did we may even equal the Fascists from the ot5her side of this debate.

Falashas....

 

[Markfs]

It's a very diverse group in terms of belief - like the communities with a Christian background, it ranges from atheist right through to fundamentalist.

i said this earlier......how many catholics are atheists? or how many christians dont believe in god?

 

[sr36]

It is an interesting conversation...and some of it results from what constitutes a "jew".

Let me use myself as an example, so I dont upset the apologists. I was born in australia and I was baptised a roman catholic. I have a passport that states that I'm australian, and i have it primarily because it is the only passport that I can get. I have consistently stated for a number of decades that i'm agnostic or atheist or more accurately, i dont believe in the invented religions. This is independent of what my parents believe. In the case of Israel, people are considered jewish if their mother is jewish....end of story. A person can give away the religion entirely but the israeli gov't would always consider them jewish.

It seems that wiki, at least, considers some ethnic element to being jewish, which is somehow independent of the religious interpretation. I would presume that this would mean that a longterm jewish resident from palestine would have some ethnic tie in common with european jews....or those in america and australia. And i'm not referring to a religious cultural practice, because my reference point is a person from a jewish family who has rejected his religion.

Going back to me, that would be similar, I presume, to me not eating meat during Lent....and therefore having some connection with roman catholics...a religion that I completely dismiss. Maybe celebrating christmas would suffice. Would I have a cultural connection with an african catholic because we both celebrate christmas? Bizarre.

Whoopi Goldberg is an interesting test case. Her parents surnames were not goldberg but whoopi insists that the name is in her family history. She did a DNA test and it appears she has no jewish connection, although she swears by it. Independent of this, she claimed on tv that the holocaust was not about race, because the people involved were all europeans. However, those in power didnt like that concept and suspended her from TV. Some brave souls suggested that prejudice against jews was more a form of bigotry, although that normally rests on a person's beliefs. And, for example, to return to my situation, would it be possible for me to experience bigotry if I have given up the religion? I could certainly be abused for receiving my first communion and being confirmed.....but i'd probably laugh at the person abusing me. I would expect an ex-adherer to judaism to be in the same boat....but of course, are they ever ex? The israeli gov't thinks not....and evidently even those who have given up judaism think not.

I've seen some comments in here that it's racist to assume that a jewish american has the same views as a jewish israeli. But I would argue that its difficult to make that accusation when there's a good change that the israeli originally came from new york. A generalisation like this might be termed unsophisticated or clunky, but how is it racism.

As a child, I've always wanted to be told the reasons for why I should do something. The rules should be transparent. In general, I'm happy to ignore this group of people entirely if they dont want me to communicate with them. If communication depends on some arbitrary decisions based on me saying the "wrong" wording or using the "wrong" classification, then i have a general rule that I just ignore them. However, currently israel is murdering innocent civilians and I want to have a say in this behaviour.

If you look at the Australian census, those ticking Christian is falling, but those ticking Catholic isn't. Catholic church congregations however are falling at the same rate of Anglican ones.

The theory is that biblical belief is falling just as much in the Catholic community, but due to discrimination and separate schooling, shared experience etc..many people still identify as Catholic - almost as a culture - even if they don't believe in biblical stories or the notion of God as an entity.

Times those factors that help to create a shared identity by a heap, particularly discrimination, when talking about Judaism. And it's not just been self identification - it's how Jews have historically been identified - as a cultural group - irrespective of belief. It was Jewish ancestry not belief that had you sent to the gas chambers. And that ancestry might not have believed either.

You can argue that it's not religious or not ethnicity, but so what, it's a shared identity either way.

 

[vindaloo]

Unpopular opinion but fascism is not just a right wing thing but a friend of the far left whether those in here like to admit it or not.

The wet lettuce for petrie.pie SMH.

 

[JB1975]

Unpopular opinion but fascism is not just a tight wing thing but a friend of the far left whether those in here like to admit it or not.

The wet lettuce for petrie.pie SMH.

Welcome back, Windy! OMG I missed you.

So appropriate that you announce your return with a mumble about something something left.

 

[ZEV]

Unpopular opinion but fascism is not just a right wing thing but a friend of the far left whether those in here like to admit it or not.

The wet lettuce for petrie.pie SMH.

Noticed you got suspended.

Sneaky mod edit for the pie though

 

[sr36]

Unpopular opinion but fascism is not just a right wing thing but a friend of the far left whether those in here like to admit it or not.

The wet lettuce for petrie.pie SMH.

And there I was thinking the Khmer Rouge were all about rainbows and lollipops. Thanks Windy. You're the light of the world.

 

[vindaloo]

And there I was thinking the Khmer Rouge were all about rainbows and lollipops. Thanks Windy. You're the light of the world.

Well you are a big fan of John pilger. This was the guy who claimed.russia was the only country in Europe reigning in fascism..

 

[Markfs]

If you look at the Australian census, those ticking Christian is falling, but those ticking Catholic isn't. Catholic church congregations however are falling at the same rate of Anglican ones.

The theory is that biblical belief is falling just as much in the Catholic community, but due to discrimination and separate schooling, shared experience etc..many people still identify as Catholic - almost as a culture - even if they don't believe in biblical stories or the notion of God as an entity.

Times those factors that help to create a shared identity by a heap, particularly discrimination, when talking about Judaism. And it's not just been self identification - it's how Jews have historically been identified - as a cultural group - irrespective of belief. It was Jewish ancestry not belief that had you sent to the gas chambers. And that ancestry might not have believed either.

You can argue that it's not religious or not ethnicity, but so what, it's a shared identity either way.

and so it's chicken or egg..... the support by american and australian jews for the gov't of israel results in people treating it as one large group. It might be stereotyping but I think it happens to all nationalities or cultural groups spread out across the world. I agree that some people just hate people who are different for whatever reason, but I just dont think that everyone making stereotypical statements is being racist...and as I said earlier, I even question the legitimacy of how it is racist for a person of european background to stereotype someone of a similar background.

At any rate, I'll escape from this topic. I've had may say and its not worth the trouble. I'll let you specify the niceties of talking about jewish groups in australia while their israeli cousins are murdering the palestinian animals.

 

[sr36]

Well you are a big fan of John pilger. This was the guy who claimed.russia was the only country in Europe reigning in fascism..

You mean the guy who let the rest of the world know how horrendous the left wing Khmer Rouge's reign was. But you stick with your left/right cliche war bot boy. Pilger wasn't the left vs right cliches that you carry on about. He pereived and criticised US imperialism and the impact he felt it had on civilians in foreign lands.

 

[sr36]

and so it's chicken or egg..... the support by american and australian jews for the gov't of israel results in people treating it as one large group. It might be stereotyping but I think it happens to all nationalities or cultural groups spread out across the world. I agree that some people just hate people who are different for whatever reason, but I just dont think that everyone making stereotypical statements is being racist...and as I said earlier, I even question the legitimacy of how it is racist for a person of european background to stereotype someone of a similar background.

At any rate, I'll escape from this topic. I've had may say and its not worth the trouble. I'll let you specify the niceties of talking about jewish groups in australia while their israeli cousins are murdering the palestinian animals.

Who cares whether anti-Semitism is categorised as racism or its own ism - that's just semantics - it's the same sort of thing either way.

 

[vindaloo]

You mean the guy who let the rest of the world know how horrendous the left wing Khmer Rouge's reign was. But you stick with your left/right cliche war bot boy. Pilger wasn't the left vs right cliches that you carry on about. He pereived and criticised US imperialism and the impact he felt it had on civilians in foreign lands.

I'd say the far left aka you has for a long time really just been anti- West. That's why pilger was right up your alley.

 

[Markfs]

us lefies cant live without fascists like you windy....