All Time Best Carlton Team

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ianh

Team Captain
Oct 14, 2008
528
573
Narre Warren South
AFL Club
Carlton
We have a team of the Century - officially. There is a team of the 19th Century as selected by the team at blueseum,org for Mark Pennings "Origins of Australian Football". And the Zero Hanger website did a Team of the 21st Century in May 2020. There's a few more players have probably put their names forth since then. But what about trying to work out an all time best Blues team? Well, let's have a go. In order to try and iron out personal bias I have approached it in this way:

Discount anyone who is not one of the three teams of the Century starting line-ups. If they are only on the bench or emergencies I figure they are likely pushed out by players from another era, although that might be tough on the 20th Century boys who are being selected from a pool of 100 years of players rather than 36 years for the 19th Century and 20 years for the 21st Century groups. That might possibly be hard on people who have split their careers across 2 centuries but I figure if they are good enough to be in consideration for an all time best side then they will have done enough to have made one or other of the starting lineups. It has the effect of ruling out a couple of players that are particularly favourites of mine. Carbine Moloney didn't make the Carlton 19th Century Team of the Century despite being ranked by at least one observer, an ex-Hawthorn captain talking as a 75 year old in 1937 as one of the best 5 players he had seen (he ranked George Coulthard as number 1). Ultimately I have found room only for George Coulthard from the 19th Century. I just don't know enough about the rest of the 19th Century players to be able to put them ahead of the 20th Century guys. The staring line-up rule also pushes out interchange players Fitzpatrick, Hunter, Keogh and Walls, (all favourite players of mine from childhood and youth), and legends Chitty Clover Kerr and McGregor. The 21st Century bench players Ed Curnow, Docherty, Houlihan and Stevens are all players I am comfortable leaving out. Players who have stepped up since May 2020 include Walsh Weitering C Curnow Saad McKay and the developing TDK but I don't think any of them have elevate themselves to the necessary level. Players named in the May 2020 team who I included are Betts, Cripps Judd and Koutoufides whilst others who came under consideration but I ultimately didn't select included Fevola M Murphy Simpson and L Whitnall. They all however make my team of the best I have seen and can remember which again was selected only from the starting line-ups of the 2 relevant teams of the century.

Thus, All time Best Blues Team

Comben Silvagni Jnr Southby
James Koutoufides Doull
Coulthard Williams Judd
Johnston S Kernahan Jesaulenko
Hands Vallence Betts
J Nicholls Cripps Bradley
Ashman Crane Deacon Gallagher Silvagni Snr

Best I have seen and remember

Jesaulenko Silvagni Jnr Southby
Hunter Koutoufides Doull
Bradley Williams Judd
Johnston Walls Betts
S Kernahan Fevola Ashman
J Nicholls Cripps Gallagher
Crane Fitzpatrick Keogh Silvagni Snr Simpson
 
We have a team of the Century - officially. There is a team of the 19th Century as selected by the team at blueseum,org for Mark Pennings "Origins of Australian Football". And the Zero Hanger website did a Team of the 21st Century in May 2020. There's a few more players have probably put their names forth since then. But what about trying to work out an all time best Blues team? Well, let's have a go. In order to try and iron out personal bias I have approached it in this way:

Discount anyone who is not one of the three teams of the Century starting line-ups. If they are only on the bench or emergencies I figure they are likely pushed out by players from another era, although that might be tough on the 20th Century boys who are being selected from a pool of 100 years of players rather than 36 years for the 19th Century and 20 years for the 21st Century groups. That might possibly be hard on people who have split their careers across 2 centuries but I figure if they are good enough to be in consideration for an all time best side then they will have done enough to have made one or other of the starting lineups. It has the effect of ruling out a couple of players that are particularly favourites of mine. Carbine Moloney didn't make the Carlton 19th Century Team of the Century despite being ranked by at least one observer, an ex-Hawthorn captain talking as a 75 year old in 1937 as one of the best 5 players he had seen (he ranked George Coulthard as number 1). Ultimately I have found room only for George Coulthard from the 19th Century. I just don't know enough about the rest of the 19th Century players to be able to put them ahead of the 20th Century guys. The staring line-up rule also pushes out interchange players Fitzpatrick, Hunter, Keogh and Walls, (all favourite players of mine from childhood and youth), and legends Chitty Clover Kerr and McGregor. The 21st Century bench players Ed Curnow, Docherty, Houlihan and Stevens are all players I am comfortable leaving out. Players who have stepped up since May 2020 include Walsh Weitering C Curnow Saad McKay and the developing TDK but I don't think any of them have elevate themselves to the necessary level. Players named in the May 2020 team who I included are Betts, Cripps Judd and Koutoufides whilst others who came under consideration but I ultimately didn't select included Fevola M Murphy Simpson and L Whitnall. They all however make my team of the best I have seen and can remember which again was selected only from the starting line-ups of the 2 relevant teams of the century.

Thus, All time Best Blues Team

Comben Silvagni Jnr Southby
James Koutoufides Doull
Coulthard Williams Judd
Johnston S Kernahan Jesaulenko
Hands Vallence Betts
J Nicholls Cripps Bradley
Ashman Crane Deacon Gallagher Silvagni Snr

Best I have seen and remember

Jesaulenko Silvagni Jnr Southby
Hunter Koutoufides Doull
Bradley Williams Judd
Johnston Walls Betts
S Kernahan Fevola Ashman
J Nicholls Cripps Gallagher
Crane Fitzpatrick Keogh Silvagni Snr Simpson

Pretty good team. It's always hard to compare across eras and I have only personally been watching from the early 2000s.

But if I was to use the existing team of the century as a starting point, I reckon the following force their way in.
1 - Judd and Cripps on-ball with Williams
2 - Kouta at CHB or on the bench
3 - Fevola at FF of FP

Obviously, I've got recency bias with Fev but if you look at goal numbers for their time Fev was ahead of Soapy. He doesn't necessarily have to force Soapy out though. You could have both.

Betts I wouldn't have. Whilst his career as a whole was exceptional, his peak was at Adelaide. Based on his career at Carlton I don't think he makes it into our all-time team.

Agree with the other recent guys you've highlighted not doing enough yet. Walsh, Weitering, Curnow would be the current 3 I could see forcing their way in by the end of their careers with Curnow being the closest. Only needs to maintain this form for a few more years.
 

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I can only go by the players I've seen - so that's how I put together my team.

Apologies to big Nick, but when I started going to the footy as a kid, his best days were probably behind him so didn't get to see him at his peak.

Tiger Crosswell easily in my 22 - absolute freak, could do anything. I remember reading some journos say that if they were handing out Norm Smiths back in the early 70's, Crosswell would have had a couple of them - 1970 and 1975.

Also apologies to Swan McKay - absolute champion, but couldn't squeeze him into the 23.

Anyhooo...

B: Harmes Silvagni Southby
HB: Hunter Doull Saad
C: Bradley Williams Koutoufidis
HF: Jesaulenko Kernahan Johnson
F: Betts Fevola Curnow

R: Madden Cripps Judd

I/C: Bosustow, Ashman, Whitnall, Crosswell
Sub: Simpson

Coach: Parkin
 
There pretty good teams when you are overlooking players of the ilk
.
FB: Hanna, Weitering, Scotland
HB: Christou, Dean, Andy McKay
C: Glascott, Ratten, Camporeale
HF: Molly Meldrum, Swan McKay, Hickmott
FF Lappin, Maclure, Rice
FOLL: Fitzpatrick, Walsh, Buckley
INT: Hamill, Rhys Jones, Jarrad Waite, Keough.
SUB: Armstrong
 
Can understand why, similar lightning leads and long straight kicks - if anything less likely to miss than Fev. But nowhere near as good overhead or on the ground and a bit soft.
Def soft. Was soft at Claremont. Beasley another one at the same time.
 
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Best Blues Team:

James Silvagni Southby
Doull Deacon Hunter

Bradley Williams Koutafides

Jesaulenko Kernahan Johnston
Hands Vallance Ashman

Nicholls Cripps Judd

Walls McKay Betts

C: Barassi
Would love to hear some of the thoughts behind the selections and omissions. James kicking could be wayward. Mckay I assume is Swan not Andy or Harry, both fine players in their own right - nor Henry J "Bonner" McKay the 19th Century seconds player whose closest claim to footballing greatness is that his nickname was bestowed by perhaps the greatest player of all time, George Coulthard.
 
I can only go by the players I've seen - so that's how I put together my team.

Apologies to big Nick, but when I started going to the footy as a kid, his best days were probably behind him so didn't get to see him at his peak.

Tiger Crosswell easily in my 22 - absolute freak, could do anything. I remember reading some journos say that if they were handing out Norm Smiths back in the early 70's, Crosswell would have had a couple of them - 1970 and 1975.

Also apologies to Swan McKay - absolute champion, but couldn't squeeze him into the 23.

Anyhooo...

B: Harmes Silvagni Southby
HB: Hunter Doull Saad
C: Bradley Williams Koutoufidis
HF: Jesaulenko Kernahan Johnson
F: Betts Fevola Curnow

R: Madden Cripps Judd

I/C: Bosustow, Ashman, Whitnall, Crosswell
Sub: Simpson

Coach: Parkin
Yes, if picking without the criteria of making one of the teams of the century I'd certainly consider Harmes Madden Crosswell and Bosustow with Curnow and maybe Saad a chance in the fullness of time. Fev the best specialist full forward I've seen at the club in my time (excluding Peter McKenna who was well past it when he came to us but at his peak was the best leading full forward I have seen) and gets the gig unless we put Jezza at full forward instead of one of the other 16 positions he would dominate (I'll concede he might be giving away a bit too much height in the ruck). Whitnall at his peak was top flight but I can't have him pushing out any of the other key position players - unless you push Doully across to a flank but even then I'd have Walls and Swan McKay ahead of him as swingmen and Perovic ahead of him as a CHB and maybe even Earl Spalding ahead of him at CHF with Harry McKay a watch this space. Other players I'd consider on a "greenfields" approach would include Syd Jackson who was magnificent, Kade Simpson for length of sterling service and TDK as a watch this space. Jimmy Buckley was a fine rover with that edge of nastiness and Crane on a wing/bench
 
Would love to hear some of the thoughts behind the selections and omissions. James kicking could be wayward. Mckay I assume is Swan not Andy or Harry, both fine players in their own right - nor Henry J "Bonner" McKay the 19th Century seconds player whose closest claim to footballing greatness is that his nickname was bestowed by perhaps the greatest player of all time, George Coulthard.

Yes, McKay is of course Swan McKay.

My thoughts are that the 21 players i named were clear cut imo. thats why i named 21 and didn't start parsing with a 22nd or 23rd, or even a 20. 21 for me were pretty easy selections. Except for Soapy who is a given, i suppose i could put the criteria on this being a post war team which either me from '78 onwards, or my old man from '45 onwards have/had clear memory and recall of.

My only semi contentious thought really was which of Hands, Walls or McKay got the pocket and the other 2 the bench. To me, Fevola's intangibles were nearly all negatives, whereas Hands, Walls and McKays's were all positive to the team. As far as James is concerned, i love Harmesy but he was never anywhere near the levels of a Brownlow Medallist. He was pretty hit and miss, and the ol man, and pretty much anyone i've heard rates James better that Comben. I wouldn't think James would be contentious.

McKay was a bit of a thought for CHB also but Deacon was probably our best player and one of the comp best in 2 Premiership years including a Brownlow. He only had 7 years because of the war.

I'd be interested in others sides.
 
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We have a team of the Century - officially. There is a team of the 19th Century as selected by the team at blueseum,org for Mark Pennings "Origins of Australian Football". And the Zero Hanger website did a Team of the 21st Century in May 2020. There's a few more players have probably put their names forth since then. But what about trying to work out an all time best Blues team? Well, let's have a go. In order to try and iron out personal bias I have approached it in this way:

Discount anyone who is not one of the three teams of the Century starting line-ups. If they are only on the bench or emergencies I figure they are likely pushed out by players from another era, although that might be tough on the 20th Century boys who are being selected from a pool of 100 years of players rather than 36 years for the 19th Century and 20 years for the 21st Century groups. That might possibly be hard on people who have split their careers across 2 centuries but I figure if they are good enough to be in consideration for an all time best side then they will have done enough to have made one or other of the starting lineups. It has the effect of ruling out a couple of players that are particularly favourites of mine. Carbine Moloney didn't make the Carlton 19th Century Team of the Century despite being ranked by at least one observer, an ex-Hawthorn captain talking as a 75 year old in 1937 as one of the best 5 players he had seen (he ranked George Coulthard as number 1). Ultimately I have found room only for George Coulthard from the 19th Century. I just don't know enough about the rest of the 19th Century players to be able to put them ahead of the 20th Century guys. The staring line-up rule also pushes out interchange players Fitzpatrick, Hunter, Keogh and Walls, (all favourite players of mine from childhood and youth), and legends Chitty Clover Kerr and McGregor. The 21st Century bench players Ed Curnow, Docherty, Houlihan and Stevens are all players I am comfortable leaving out. Players who have stepped up since May 2020 include Walsh Weitering C Curnow Saad McKay and the developing TDK but I don't think any of them have elevate themselves to the necessary level. Players named in the May 2020 team who I included are Betts, Cripps Judd and Koutoufides whilst others who came under consideration but I ultimately didn't select included Fevola M Murphy Simpson and L Whitnall. They all however make my team of the best I have seen and can remember which again was selected only from the starting line-ups of the 2 relevant teams of the century.

Thus, All time Best Blues Team

Comben Silvagni Jnr Southby
James Koutoufides Doull
Coulthard Williams Judd
Johnston S Kernahan Jesaulenko
Hands Vallence Betts
J Nicholls Cripps Bradley
Ashman Crane Deacon Gallagher Silvagni Snr

Best I have seen and remember

Jesaulenko Silvagni Jnr Southby
Hunter Koutoufides Doull
Bradley Williams Judd
Johnston Walls Betts
S Kernahan Fevola Ashman
J Nicholls Cripps Gallagher
Crane Fitzpatrick Keogh Silvagni Snr Simpson
Crosswell must be in your team ahead of , Simpson, Keogh. Crosswell could be the greatest finals player in history. I saw him play for North. Bog 70 gfinal and in the bests in 68, 75, 77
Curnow a better footballer than Walls and pure fwd than Fevola
Weitering must be in.
 

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All Time Best Carlton Team

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