An offer for the Duck, please.

[Deestroy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: An offer for the Duck, please.

Originally posted by moomba


There is no guarantee of anything in football. Carey or Smith or you no 10 draft pick might do a knee in the first week of training. Each club has got to make the moves that that they think will give them the best shot at a premiership and if I were Terry Wallace I know who I would rather have in my team.

I wouldn't take the no 10 pick and Smith for Carey for what it's worth, I would be looking at a younger player or an additional draft pick.

Moomba

You reduce your risk by taking Smith and a draft pick. Not only has Smith had a great year this year, but you would also have the chance at player who will help you in the mid to long term. Not only that, you wouldn't have to spend 10% of your salary cap on a player who hasn't played for a year, and is 31 years old next season. So on the basis of 'no guarantees in football' I would rather have odds on my side, thanks.

 

[the_oracle]

I'm a roo man like Choppy and i reckon he's on the money.

What i saw of last nite was a bloke with that old arrogance and c*ckiness. I thought this year would have put him into his shell but it hasn't. he looks the goods both physically and mentally.

Assuming a deal where the roos can play as hard as they can - no soft trades for less money to the king - if you are a premiership chance whose time is slipping away (probably 2 years left in the sun - the dons) and facing a dominant lions, a team almost there (port) and improving teams in the cats and the pies and a possibly resurgent hawks next year you don't want that chance to snare another one go by.

Yes it should cost - a first pick and a name player but the trade is irresistable in my eyes.

All the other teams are in the same boat in my opinion.

People argue about age and his body - its a reality he's 31 going 32 mid next year but what you let arguably the best player ever go. By the way seeing him in the practice games earlier this year - he looked like he was going to be a superstar again.

alas it wasn't to be.

So I'll finish with a story i once heard (my words though) - 2 blokes had no shoes and had to save up for some shoes - one bloke had just enough for a cheap pair and thought bugger it, i'll get the cheap pair. Alas, they only lasted a short while and they broke on him and had to go back to no shoes and being sore and uncomfortable.

the other bloke went without for longer and although he got sore feet he eventually saved enough for a beautiful new pair of comfortable shoes which lasted for years and years.

The moral of the story (as the hawks fans know) is:

YOU HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Originally posted by the_oracle
So remember if you want to knock the lions off you have to pay the price.

This is a peculiar attitude. Plenty of sides have beaten us since the beginning of last year without Carey, and the Roos have lost a share of games to the Lions with him playing. Recruiting Carey is hardly the automatic cure-all to being a better side than the Lions on any particular day.

Later edit: Ah, you've deleted that bit. But it's a line Choppy's keen to put forward as well, so I'll let my post stand.

 

[the_oracle]

Of course its not but it bloody well increases your chances doesn't it. Look there is no doubt that there are a lot of assumptions built into it - like his body and age but for a short term tilt - its worth it in my mind

 

[moomba]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: An offer for the Duck, please.

Originally posted by Deestroy

You reduce your risk by taking Smith and a draft pick. Not only has Smith had a great year this year, but you would also have the chance at player who will help you in the mid to long term. Not only that, you wouldn't have to spend 10% of your salary cap on a player who hasn't played for a year, and is 31 years old next season. So on the basis of 'no guarantees in football' I would rather have odds on my side, thanks.

Fair enough, each club has got to make their choice. I question the 10% of the salary cap, the figures quoted have been around 300-400 grand, and if you can afford it, upfront payments would see that reduced further. He may be getting on but he has averaged 19+ games a season for his last three playing years and his biggest injury concern (Osteotis Pubitis) would be alleviated to some extent by the break.

I guarantee you one thing, if the Bulldogs don't make the deal and have to win their final game to make the finals they won't want to see Wayne Carey run out in the opposition colours.

Moomba

 

[the_oracle]

i rushed the post to catch talking footy so never read it before posting. so off i go. till later.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Potentially, sure, but body and age are big problems to consider when you're 32 (in 2003) and the kind of player Carey is. Motivation has to be questioned as well.

 

[mantis]

Oracle

He turns 32 a third of the way through the season, sorry to be pedantic, also, the Bombers don't need another CHF, we need a good ruckman, or a tough backman to replace Hardwick simple as that, we don't need Carey, unless we can pick him up without having to compromise our chances of drafting players for the positions we are really lacking in at the moment.

 

[moomba]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: An offer for the Duck, please.

Originally posted by moomba
I question the 10% of the salary cap, the figures quoted have been around 300-400 grand, and if you can afford it, upfront payments would see that reduced further.

Just on that, in the Bulldogs example Smith would be earning $250,000 and the number 10 draft pick I would think would be earning $75,000 so the club would only have to find an extra $75,000 in the salary cap at the most.

With the Essendon suggestion of Mercuri and Heffernan I would say that they would actually be better off salary cap wise if North were dumb enough to accept the trade.

Moomba

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by sandeano


What is the bigger risk? Recruiting a proven champion and leader or pinning your hopes on a couple of kids?

Six of one/half a dozen of the other...

Status quo is not taking a risk it is what you do most years...

 

[ok.crows]

Choppy, Kangaroos are not in a strong bargaining position. They cannot demand much at all, since clearly Carey is not going to play for Kangaroos next season.

This is a similar situation that Adelaide faced with Rehn. From memory Adelaide did not get much in return for Rehn.

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


Status quo is not taking a risk it is what you do most years...

Nah...if we had continued our form from last year then fair enough - Carey may prove the difference between finishing third and getting a flag.

But moving us 15 places up the ladder in two years? He aint THAT good.

We aint gonna contest finals for a few years now, let alone win a flag. I'd rather be looking five years down the track than seeing Carey take us to 10th or 11th then retire and leave us struggling back down among the eels and crabs of the bottom rungs of the ladder.

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by ok.crows

This is a similar situation that Adelaide faced with Rehn. From memory Adelaide did not get much in return for Rehn.

The big difference being that I think Hawthorn were the only ones in the market for Rehn. At this stage we have Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon, Adelaide at least looking to have a shot. Now if Carlton are prepared to trade a Fevola and a 2nd round draft pick then if the other sides want him they will have to offer better. If the Hawks offer a Dixon and 1st round draft pick and Essendon or Adelaide want him they will have to offer better. This goes on and on until all but one side decides the cost is too much.

As good as Rehn was I think there were real doubts about his ability to ever be a matchwinning player which also would have affected his proce.

Moomba

 

[HoRsE]

This is hardly worth the debate. Supporters of ALL clubs have loved to hate Carey, they are hardly going to admit he would be worth much on here.
Mantis for one thinks Carey is worthless to Essendon, and I tend to agree with him. Essendon seem so far of the pace with Brisbane, they may want to look at rebuilding. Probably missed their window of opportunity.
Any side looking to win the premiership within the next 4-5 years would be on drugs not to take Carey for a few early picks. Carey would be their insurance policy to make sure he doesn’t cost them a flag, and who knows he might even win them a flag. A bit like an 8 point game, the decision could be worth 2 flags to the right club(s). Now what was he worth again?

 

[hilly]

Originally posted by moomba


The big difference being that I think Hawthorn were the only ones in the market for Rehn. At this stage we have Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon, Adelaide at least looking to have a shot. Now if Carlton are prepared to trade a Fevola and a 2nd round draft pick then if the other sides want him they will have to offer better. If the Hawks offer a Dixon and 1st round draft pick and Essendon or Adelaide want him they will have to offer better. This goes on and on until all but one side decides the cost is too much.

Spot on Moomba, basic economics really. It's a pity that certain posters don't understand this concept

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by hilly


Spot on Moomba, basic economics really. It's a pity that certain posters don't understand this concept

Except that, according to Carey (on Foxtel interview anyway), he is willing to forgo any money that Kangaroos owe him so that he may pick which team he goes to.

In this instance, if that arrangement comes into place, there is no bargaining round with the Kangaroos. Carey chooses whichever side offers Carey a rosy deal, and Kangaroos basically pick up only a nominal trade in return.

It's a pity that certain posters don't understand this concept.

 

[hilly]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Except that, according to Carey (on Foxtel interview anyway), he is willing to forgo any money that Kangaroos owe him so that he may pick which team he goes to.

In this instance, if that arrangement comes into place, there is no bargaining round with the Kangaroos. Carey chooses whichever side offers Carey a rosy deal, and Kangaroos basically pick up only a nominal trade in return.

It's a pity that certain posters don't understand this concept.

I wasn't even referring to you Crows.....

That is largely true. I am assuming that Carey is happy to go to any of the clubs that are interested. If he's not then it creates a problem obviously

 

[barry]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Except that, according to Carey (on Foxtel interview anyway), he is willing to forgo any money that Kangaroos owe him so that he may pick which team he goes to.

In this instance, if that arrangement comes into place, there is no bargaining round with the Kangaroos. Carey chooses whichever side offers Carey a rosy deal, and Kangaroos basically pick up only a nominal trade in return.

It's a pity that certain posters don't understand this concept.

I wonder when Wayne will decide. Will he wait for Pagan to sign with a club so he can avoid that club?

The Swans, I imagine, would like both Carey and Pagan. Which one do they go after???

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by choppy
StKilda
Once again, first and second round pick. What good are another batch of youngsters. StKilda with their abundent youth need to learn how to win over the next 2 or 3 years. By this time their youngsters will be blossoming and a serious threat.
[

Take it as guaranteed the Saints have no interest in Carey whatsoever.

Another good batch of youngsters (picks 4 & 20? a young ruckman) should fit in nicely in 2-3 years when the Saints intend to contend. The older brigade will consist of Jones, Gherig, Hamill, Black, Spider etc
Hayes, Riewoldt, Koschitztke, Ball, Dal Santo, Clarke Moyle etc approaching their peak, we don't want what Carey can give for the next 2-3 years.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by choppy

West Coast
Michael Gardiner and your second round pick. Off field problems and drama's. Needs to get out of that town to rebuild his reputation and career. Sounds familiar.

DONE DEAL!!!

We'll just send over one of the best 6 ruckmen in the league to the Roos, a young key position player who has tonnes of talent, is mobile, kicks goals, has great hands, has played around 100 games and is the future of West Coast for....

An over the hill, injury prone, media circus.

I dont think its very fair though, I'll tell you what if you throw in Clayton, we'll give you Cousins, Wirrpunda, Kerr, Jakovich, both Materas, Judd, and our next 256 draft picks.

If you didnt guess...the above was sarcasm because Carey for Gardiner is just STUPID.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Originally posted by choppy
Fremantle
James Walker and your first round pick. Walker has stagnated at Freo, will want to return home, wouldn't be missed. Okay we'll take your second round pick as well now that you insist.

Not for two draft picks.

Walker and the second round pick and its a deal.

 

[MarkT]

Re: Re: An offer for the Duck, please.

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
I'll give you Pick #18, Brendan Fevola and an endless packet of Tim Tams!!

I'll take the Tim Tams. Does Whitnall come with them?

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Except that, according to Carey (on Foxtel interview anyway), he is willing to forgo any money that Kangaroos owe him so that he may pick which team he goes to.

In this instance, if that arrangement comes into place, there is no bargaining round with the Kangaroos. Carey chooses whichever side offers Carey a rosy deal, and Kangaroos basically pick up only a nominal trade in return.

It's a pity that certain posters don't understand this concept.

If that arrangement does go into place I agree that we would have a much weaker bargaining position. It has been something that has concerned me since I first heard of the possibility, however I think Carey is going to make sure that he doesn't burn bridges anywhere at the moment. He obviously wants to return to North at some stage and has already said that he would not hold the club to ransom. My guess is that he will tell North where he would prefer to go, and where he is prepared to go. Any deals would be worked out on that basis.

Moomba

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by choppy


Geelong
Ben Graham, if Denis can turn around the fortunes of one former Captain surely he can do it with another. I will also include our second and third round draft pick.

Hawthorn
Dixon and your first round pick. Not enough room in that forward line with Carey, someone has to go. Dixon is looking for a change of scenery. A decent haircut, some renowned Denis no bull**** approach and he could reach his potential. If you want to keep your first round pick, then submit Rawlings and your third round pick.

Okay, from the Hawks you want either Dixon (which I might do and a 3rd rnd pick maybe). Or Rawlings and that third round pick. From the Cats you would take Graham and also offer them i your 2nd or 3rd pick? Ask around who has been the better performed player for the last three seasons out of Graham or Rawlings and the answer wont be B. Graham.

32, can walk if he wants to. Will be on huge money regardless of where he goes so he could probably nominate a fee for his services (that will probably rule out half the sides in the comp right there and then). Take what your offered and be hopeful it isn't a screw job because I really don't think your going to be offered much.

 

[moomba]

Re: Re: An offer for the Duck, please.

Originally posted by Grendel


Okay, from the Hawks you want either Dixon (which I might do and a 3rd rnd pick maybe). Or Rawlings and that third round pick. From the Cats you would take Graham and also offer them i your 2nd or 3rd pick? Ask around who has been the better performed player for the last three seasons out of Graham or Rawlings and the answer wont be B. Graham.

32, can walk if he wants to. Will be on huge money regardless of where he goes so he could probably nominate a fee for his services (that will probably rule out half the sides in the comp right there and then). Take what your offered and be hopeful it isn't a screw job because I really don't think your going to be offered much.

We've already got BigFooty Carlton prepared to accept a no 18 pick + Fevola (I think the real Carlton would take that in a shot)so I doubt that BigFooty Carey would be going to BigFooty Hawthorn. Rawlings would be a chance but I agree about Graham. No thanks. Schwabby seemed very keen to get Carey on the news last night, I think he might go a bit further than you have.

Moomba