Apple Isle Showdown: Tas Govt threatens to end Hawks, North deals if no plan for 19th side

[The_Wookie]

He’s in tassie making a buck off tourism so wants the status quo to continue

Yes so much football tourism comes to Scamander. FMD

 

[fargothegreat]

If it had to be relocation, and North Melbourne are the club the AFL is pushing for, surely it makes more sense for North to relocate to the Gold Coast and the Suns to be disbanded?

The Suns are struggling for support and legitimacy in their infancy, and adopting a bunch of Melbourne-based members would give them the boost they need.

Meanwhile, Tasmanians want their own identity and are sick of funding the survival of Vic clubs at our own expense. We need our own team, and a lot of us won't really accept a second-hand Vic club as our own.

 

[The_Wookie]

You are blind to the point.

And you are blind to anything you dont like.

Ballarat and bendigo citizens can go watch games on a weekly basis.

Sure. You can fly to Melbourne in the same time it takes to drive from Bendigo too.

Tasmanian fans have been denied this even though they have been a footy state since the 1800s.

Thats got a hell of a lot to do with the fact that a) there was no national competition prior to 1987 and b) no VFL/AFL Commission believing their league particuarly needed a club in Tasmania. Again, theres no organic right to having a team in a privately operated competition and the VFL has been such since 1897.

Ballarat and BENDIGO are around 100K each, tasmania is 500K

In a 2 hour radious around those, the catchment area is far larger than that.

i get that this all counts little for you as it is just money for you. Not about what is equitable of Decent.

You dont get anything.

The AFL should invest in Tasmania as it has been a major part of of Australian rules footy .

I agree. I dont necessarily agree that a team is part of that process

The silly thing is the state can support a team , thats been shown by the business model So feasibility is not an issue.

That theres enough supporters is likely. That theres enough corporate support, I doubt. Take the WA teams for example - sponsorship is on the low side, but they make a mint through corporate hospitality.

Too much relies on government funding and goodwill, and the clubs arent going to allow another new club requiring too much funding in the near future. Theres a significant block of clubs unhappy with club funding arrangements already. Its worth noting that the last report indicates that a Tasmanian club would expect the same additional treatment afforded to other clubs.

The AFL would need to provide access to the same model of AFL annual distributions that other member Clubs currently receive. Elsewhere, we have considered the equity of this and believe a Tasmanian licence would add broadcast or content value to the AFL and should therefore justify its participation in these distributions. Smaller Clubs in 2018 typically received in excess of $22M – while that could be a reasonable request of the AFL in pursuit and support of a Tasmanian licence, we have modelled just $17M.

http://www.premier.tas.gov.au/documents/AFL_Taskforce_Report_Tasmania.pdf (pg 43)

The base distribution is currently 11m (precovid). We're talking North Melbourne level funding straight off the bat. And according to Bigfooty and Caro, thats not a good place to be.

Feasibility is an issue if the AFL and the clubs believe it is. Reports commissioned and released by the Tasmanian government are going to say what the government whats them to say. And when it comes to clubs and licenses, the Commissions belief and the the belief of the clubs that have to ratify the decision is the only thing that matters. The independent review thats coming is the best chance you have.

 

[Atomboy]

If it had to be relocation, and North Melbourne are the club the AFL is pushing for, surely it makes more sense for North to relocate to the Gold Coast and the Suns to be disbanded?

The Suns are struggling for support and legitimacy in their infancy, and adopting a bunch of Melbourne-based members would give them the boost they need.

Meanwhile, Tasmanians want their own identity and are sick of funding the survival of Vic clubs at our own expense. We need our own team, and a lot of us won't really accept a second-hand Vic club as our own.

What about just relocating the Suns to Tasmania ?.

Every time I have been to Tassie the weather has been mainly overcast, and the warm, rosy glow portrayed by the Suns would give them a great base upon which to recruit local members who are sick of the weather.

 

[madmug]

If it had to be relocation, and North Melbourne are the club the AFL is pushing for, surely it makes more sense for North to relocate to the Gold Coast and the Suns to be disbanded?

The Suns are struggling for support and legitimacy in their infancy, and adopting a bunch of Melbourne-based members would give them the boost they need.

Meanwhile, Tasmanians want their own identity and are sick of funding the survival of Vic clubs at our own expense. We need our own team, and a lot of us won't really accept a second-hand Vic club as our own.

The AFL work on 'generational change'.

ie FK it up, then wait until the next generation don't remember the original FK ups.

Its a common method of pretenders in corporate management.

 

[madmug]

What about just relocating the Suns to Tasmania ?.

Every time I have been to Tassie the weather has been mainly overcast, and the warm, rosy glow portrayed by the Suns would give them a great base upon which to recruit local members who are sick of the weather.

Yes, & I went to Melbourne on a Thursday in 1977. It was cold & gray at Victoria park on the Saturday

Has the weather got any better since then?

( A Victorian moaning about the weather, hahahaha!!!)

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yes, & I went to Melbourne on a Thursday in 1977. It was cold & gray at Victoria park on the Saturday

Has the weather got any better since then?

( A Victorian moaning about the weather, hahahaha!!!)

Why not?
All this thread is Tasmanians moaning about the AFL.

 

[madmug]

Why not?
All this thread is Tasmanians moaning about the AFL.

Wow, great insight to the thread, thanks.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Wow, great insight to the thread, thanks.

Yep, i've seen this sort of post many times, especially from Tasmanians.

Tell us all again mate how the big bad AFL ruined Tasmanian football.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not sure Dan would want you in Treasury, stick to milking cows big fella.

EDIT: Dan instructs Gil to remove all 8 non vic clubs to ensure all monies all go to victoria, I'm doin it right now yeah?

 

[HPKS]

Yep, i've seen this sort of post many times, especially from Tasmanians.

Tell us all again mate how the big bad AFL ruined Tasmanian football.

The majority of posts on bf are about the big bad AFL ruining something or not being transparent. From the Essendon drug saga to encouraging tanking to refusing to have the grand final last year in a traditional state(SA), to screwing the u18’s this year to people believing they’re only having rule changes for more tv adds or to justify their jobs, people complaining about jobs for the boys etc

The worst part is some of it is true eg tried to cover up and then sweep a systematic ped program under the carpet. So you can see why a lot of the blame lays with the AFL in regards to tassie as has been pointed out a few time.

 

[madmug]

Yep, i've seen this sort of post many times, especially from Tasmanians.

Tell us all again mate how the big bad AFL ruined Tasmanian football.

So you've seen it. but you want another rendition? OK, maybe tomorrow.

Perhaps the BF lads can also give you another rundown about Fitzroy's bad luck in the AFL, getting ripped off, leaving only 10 Vic clubs. That might excite you a bit.

Or maybe the one about clubs getting ripped off over the Docklands Stadium deals. (That was just awful ay?)

Something for everyone on BF.

 

[LoungeLizard]

So you've seen it. but you want another rendition? OK, maybe tomorrow.

Perhaps the BF lads can also give you another rundown about Fitzroy's bad luck in the AFL, getting ripped off, leaving only 10 Vic clubs. That might excite you a bit.

Or maybe the one about clubs getting ripped off over the Docklands Stadium deals. (That was just awful ay?)

Something for everyone on BF.

And this has what to do with TSL incompetence?

 

[Carringbush2010]

If it had to be relocation, and North Melbourne are the club the AFL is pushing for, surely it makes more sense for North to relocate to the Gold Coast and the Suns to be disbanded?

The Suns are struggling for support and legitimacy in their infancy, and adopting a bunch of Melbourne-based members would give them the boost they need.

Meanwhile, Tasmanians want their own identity and are sick of funding the survival of Vic clubs at our own expense. We need our own team, and a lot of us won't really accept a second-hand Vic club as our own.

And this is where the impasse comes home to roost, North members emphatically told their club NO to a relocation to gc. With more members now than then they're likely to vote against a relocation again, regardless if it's gc or Tas.

Tas may well withdraw funding from North and hawks for playing games in Tas, that may well make things more difficult for North to survive and if indeed they didn't survive at least they'd die on their feet rather live on their knees. That seems to be the mantra from North supporters.

So North by way of their members ain't budgin. It's Arden st. or bust.

What seems to be the great saviour is that Gil has publicly stated that the wish of HQ is for all clubs to survive - *was stated in covid heavy times when HQ secured a line of credit against Marvel stadium for that purpose.

So if Tas pull funding for North to play Tas games, will HQ use that line of credit to keep North at alive and at Arden st? That seems likely.

So if HQ ensure Norths survival, does that hamper the case for a Tas team? More importantly in the eyes of HQ, remembering to them it's all about $.

The business case points to a yes, the thorn might be that we have a 19th club instead an even 18 or 20.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

What a Victorian centric post, what's Melbourne 4.5 mill people holding up 10 clubs, how couldn't Tassie be financially viable? If Geelong can have a team so can Tassie. In terms of sponsorship you have the two breweries, Cadbury, Mona and wotif. If a team goes to Tassie it also improves their economy, as more people will move their for employment, all of a sudden more people go to their uni, more houses are built etc.

With no international travel on the cards for the next 5 years, more people will travel interstate and Tassie is affordable and has probably the best scenic pristine countryside in the country.

The AFL and Vic gov don't want to diversify from what they have, as it dilutes the pop from Melbourne to Tassie and dilutes from Vic's economy.

The AFL and caro and Eddie are linear thinkers, instead of thinking strategically about the growth of the game and are stifulling it with the old VFL mantra.

You know to raise revenue, to make up for the losses of last year the AFL could play 34 games and bid off a couple of festivals of footys to other states, eg during the Easter holidays why not have a 21 day footy fest in Tassie and during the July holidays have another in Qld

And you are blind to anything you dont like.



Sure. You can fly to Melbourne in the same time it takes to drive from Bendigo too.



Thats got a hell of a lot to do with the fact that a) there was no national competition prior to 1987 and b) no VFL/AFL Commission believing their league particuarly needed a club in Tasmania. Again, theres no organic right to having a team in a privately operated competition and the VFL has been such since 1897.



In a 2 hour radious around those, the catchment area is far larger than that.



You dont get anything.



I agree. I dont necessarily agree that a team is part of that process



That theres enough supporters is likely. That theres enough corporate support, I doubt. Take the WA teams for example - sponsorship is on the low side, but they make a mint through corporate hospitality.

Too much relies on government funding and goodwill, and the clubs arent going to allow another new club requiring too much funding in the near future. Theres a significant block of clubs unhappy with club funding arrangements already. Its worth noting that the last report indicates that a Tasmanian club would expect the same additional treatment afforded to other clubs.


http://www.premier.tas.gov.au/documents/AFL_Taskforce_Report_Tasmania.pdf (pg 43)

The base distribution is currently 11m (precovid). We're talking North Melbourne level funding straight off the bat. And according to Bigfooty and Caro, thats not a good place to be.

Feasibility is an issue if the AFL and the clubs believe it is. Reports commissioned and released by the Tasmanian government are going to say what the government whats them to say. And when it comes to clubs and licenses, the Commissions belief and the the belief of the clubs that have to ratify the decision is the only thing that matters. The independent review thats coming is the best chance you have.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

The game went to sh*t after expanding from 12.

There is simply nowhere near enough talent for 20 teams.

Not to mention 20 lots of coaching staff and umpires. And commentators.

This is clearly rose coloured glasses - how's your memory of a 12-team league from the 1920s? Population of Australia was a smidge over 6 million then (almost 25.5 million now). Let's assume half the population can play in the league as they are males (I realise I'm not taking into account those <17 and >40 and other factors, but it's mostly academic to the issue - not to mention the ability to scout all over these days). Maybe it was just an amateur comp then - how about when Hawthorn started to win flags (1961)?

It's currently 705,000 potential players per team - back in 1925 it was a mere 250,000 - 445,000 in 1961. You can't seriously tell me the average player was *that* much better to overcome that sort of discrepancy. It may be so that fewer people play footy beyond their junior years now as to be decisive in your argument, but I doubt it. With coaching, conditioning, revenue streams, junior pathways etc how can this possibly be more than a false truism that people spout to scaffold their memories of the good old days? I say this as someone who has been watching footy for coming up on 30 years too.

The potential is there for a 20 or even 22-team league, provided there is enough lead time to prepare the rest of the footy world for that eventuality. Announce Tas and WA3 now for 2027-28 and I have no doubt they will have full lists of players good enough for the AFL.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Would anyone in Perth support a third team? Eagles are already one of the best clubs in the league and Freo have carved out the under-dog/battler niche (or the "I don't like west coast" niche). What does the new team offer? Would it even lead to more football fans or just take from the memberships of the other two?

52,000 members and averaging 40,000+ at home games is pretty ****ing big "niche" to be fair. That's almost like saying Coles has carved out a niche market from Woolworths...

 

[madmug]

And this has what to do with TSL incompetence?

And you have what to do with this thread?

I mean asking questions that have been discussed for a decade on BF, is just Dumb.

 

[HPKS]

52,000 members and averaging 40,000+ at home games is pretty ******* big "niche" to be fair. That's almost like saying Coles has carved out a niche market from Woolworths...

Spot on. A niche club would be North. A filler club that exists to allow the big clubs in Victoria to have an extra away game. Which translates to helping the vic economy. It’s a suburban club that belongs in a suburban competition.

 

[LoungeLizard]

And you have what to do with this thread?

I mean asking questions that have been discussed for a decade on BF, is just Dumb.

Ok, so it's dumb to ask questions that have been asked.

Would that also mean it's dumb to keep blaming the AFL over and over?
Would that mean it's also dumb to keep harping about how Tassie deserve a team?
Would that mean it's also dumb to bring up events that happened decades ago?

Let us know all the dumb things we can and cannot say mate, then we can end the thread hey.

 

[madmug]

Ok, so it's dumb to ask questions that have been asked.

Would that also mean it's dumb to keep blaming the AFL over and over?
Would that mean it's also dumb to keep harping about how Tassie deserve a team?
Would that mean it's also dumb to bring up events that happened decades ago?

Let us know all the dumb things we can and cannot say mate, then we can end the thread hey.

One needs to repeat 'certain messages' for those who are unfortunately ignorant of 'certain things'. This subject being one of them. Only this morning I posted a potted version of things, you didn't look at that?, let alone years of comment?

Not sure really very many are harping on 'deserve'. Its was the AFL itself said GWS 'deserved' a team. Maybe take it up with the AFL itself.

Q3, See answer 1).

Have you looked at the Tas application/business case?

Any actual points to make?

Are you really interested anyway?

 

[LoungeLizard]

One needs to repeat 'certain messages' for those who are unfortunately ignorant of 'certain things'. This subject being one of them. Only this morning I posted a potted version of things, you didn't look at that?, let alone years of comment?

Not sure really very many are harping on 'deserve'. Its was the AFL itself said GWS 'deserved' a team. Maybe take it up with the AFL itself.

Q3, See answer 1).

Have you looked at the Tas application/business case?

Any actual points to make?

Are you really interested anyway?

As i have stated earlier, i would like Tassie to have a team.

I also stated earlier my stance on what you and a lot of Tasmanians feel.
If you keep blaming the AFL for Tasmanian incompetence, then i will keep asking the same questions, if you don't like it, stop the blame game.
I like how you think you are the authority on all these matters, when you are the main culprit of blaming the AFL, blaming someone else for failures is lazy.
So you keep blaming, i will keep asking why and you will keep blaming.

 

[madmug]

As i have stated earlier, i would like Tassie to have a team.

I also stated earlier my stance on what you and a lot of Tasmanians feel.
If you keep blaming the AFL for Tasmanian incompetence, then i will keep asking the same questions, if you don't like it, stop the blame game.
I like how you think you are the authority on all these matters, when you are the main culprit of blaming the AFL, blaming someone else for failures is lazy.
So you keep blaming, i will keep asking why and you will keep blaming.

Authority?

Mate this is BF. I make points on threads to do with this issue, & others I'm interested in.

If I can't make my points & have a discussion then no one else should either, Thus the end of BF.

So, blame or whatever, make your own points to COUNTER this & any other issue or thread or post.

Don't ask just generalised broad questions that have been discussed for so long.

Contribute something yourself.

Write a rebuttle. Don't just deny without any points to make to support your position.

 

[The_Wookie]

What a Victorian centric post,

Yawn. Havent lived in Victoria since 1992, and spent most of the time since in South australia, and the last two years in Tasmania. Spare me.

what's Melbourne 4.5 mill people holding up 10 clubs, how couldn't Tassie be financially viable? If Geelong can have a team so can Tassie.

You be sure to let me know when Tasmania is an hours drive from a population of 4.5m, and is included in one of the largest metro tv markets in the country.

In terms of sponsorship you have the two breweries, Cadbury, Mona and wotif. If a team goes to Tassie it also improves their economy, as more people will move their for employment, all of a sudden more people go to their uni, more houses are built etc.

wotif isnt a tasmanian company for a start - its part of the Expedia group and run from seattle. Mona is not sponsoring anything. Good luck with brewery sponsors that conflict with the league.

With no international travel on the cards for the next 5 years, more people will travel interstate and Tassie is affordable and has probably the best scenic pristine countryside in the country.

International travel being such a problem for the AFL and all

The AFL and Vic gov don't want to diversify from what they have, as it dilutes the pop from Melbourne to Tassie and dilutes from Vic's economy.

Yes Im sure thats the reason.

The AFL and caro and Eddie are linear thinkers, instead of thinking strategically about the growth of the game and are stifulling it with the old VFL mantra.

Im sure thats whats going on.

You know to raise revenue, to make up for the losses of last year the AFL could play 34 games and bid off a couple of festivals of footys to other states, eg during the Easter holidays why not have a 21 day footy fest in Tassie and during the July holidays have another in Qld

Sell it to broadcasters and the clubs. Get back to us.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Authority?

Mate this is BF. I make points on threads to do with this issue, & others I'm interested in.

If I can't make my points & have a discussion then no one else should either, Thus the end of BF.

So, blame or whatever, make your own points to COUNTER this & any other issue or thread or post.

Don't ask just generalised broad questions that have been discussed for so long.

Contribute something yourself.

Write a rebuttle. Don't just deny without any points to make to support your position.

OMG how entitled are you, you think it's ok for you to blame the AFL, but if i say anything against that i am offering nothing.

What a f&^%*n laugh you are.