Are the Blues on the verge of something great?

[Monkey King]

So to the blue supporters are you even expecting Henderson to be playing the first half of the season given his hip surgery.

How much improvement is he going to have with half a pre-season?

Yes, I expect he will play sometime in the first half of the season. He will be affected by a limited pre-season, that's for sure; but he's already started light training and should be back to full training before the season starts. So long as he recovers alright, he should find at least some improvement during the year.

Murphy had it much worse last year, having an op in December, half a game before round one and not being able train mid-week until after May. Had an okay year, but was definitely affected. If Hendo gets stuck in a similar rut, he may not get any onfield improvement.

 

[spartan-magpie]

• In 1994, Carlton were fined $50,000 after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $85,000 during the 1993 season.
• In 1995, Sydney were fined $20,000 after key documents relating to player financial details and star full-forward Tony Lockett's contract details were lost in the post by club officials, forcing the club to skip the 1995 pre-season draft and play the season two players short. The club officials were fired by the Swans one week later.
• In 1996, Essendon were fined a record $638,250 ($250,000 in back tax and penalties, $112,000 for draft tampering and $276,250 for breaching the salary cap regulations), forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft and were excluded from the 1997 rookie and pre-season drafts after a joint Australian Tax Office and AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $514,500 between 1991 and 1996.
  
  ... and later ...
  
  
• In 2002, Carlton were fined a record $987,500 and forfeited their priority picks in the National Draft, their first and second round picks in the National Draft for two years and were excluded from the 2003 pre-season draft after an AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totaling $1.37 million between 1998 and 2001

Perhaps you could enlighten us all as to why the 1995 Carlton flag is tainted? Oh, that's right, this is Big Footy ... never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

if that helps you sleep at night... from 93 onwards you guys r*ped the salary cap system.. ill leave it at that. its tainted and will forever remain so. you can provide whatever conjured up non official statistics u like. it wont change my view.



back on the thread topic, which i strayed from, i cannot fathom the delusional
optimism in which carlton supporters view their team. its beyond me how these blokes actually rate their boys anywhere in the same sentence as the pies, cats, saints, hawks, dogs or to a lesser degree the dockers, swans and even young up and comers like the roos, tigers and dees....

im not being a carlton hater in this instance (although, i despised your team like no other when you were relevant) its just your list, imo (which may count for little but this is bigfooty) is a like a cheese grater... no matter which side you look at it from its full of holes - the thing is some sides have less holes than the others.

kruzer, judd, murphy, gibbs, jamieson... who is next in line? eddie betts? gartlett, yaarran? decent talent but nothing there to suggest you can mix it with any of the big boys - unless theyre having an off day and then we'll start hearing about the supposed carlton invincibility returning again.. remember we all smelt what you were cooking, and we knew you were coming - and now we are all just laughing at the rabble of a club you now are...


carlton will finish between 7-11th...only in the 8 if judd can carry your boys and others remain injury free...

 

[Bardo State]

I wouldn't say that Judd carries them. Although he is by far their most dominant player that as Chewy said restricts their options and makes them one-dimentional.

 

[spartan-magpie]

I wouldn't say that Judd carries them. Although he is by far their most dominant player that as Chewy said restricts their options and makes them one-dimentional.

does anyone here honestly believe that theyd be better off in the long term without him? chewy might be right, but without judd carlton would be... well, we all know the answer to that.

 

[Monkey King]

if that helps you sleep at night... from 93 onwards you guys r*ped the salary cap system.. ill leave it at that. its tainted and will forever remain so. you can provide whatever conjured up non official statistics u like. it wont change my view.

That's the way big fella, fight tooth and nail to hang on to that ignorant opinion

 

[gardiner stand]

if that helps you sleep at night... from 93 onwards you guys r*ped the salary cap system.. ill leave it at that. its tainted and will forever remain so. you can provide whatever conjured up non official statistics u like. it wont change my view.



back on the thread topic, which i strayed from, i cannot fathom the delusional
optimism in which carlton supporters view their team. its beyond me how these blokes actually rate their boys anywhere in the same sentence as the pies, cats, saints, hawks, dogs or to a lesser degree the dockers, swans and even young up and comers like the roos, tigers and dees....

im not being a carlton hater in this instance (although, i despised your team like no other when you were relevant) its just your list, imo (which may count for little but this is bigfooty) is a like a cheese grater... no matter which side you look at it from its full of holes - the thing is some sides have less holes than the others.

kruzer, judd, murphy, gibbs, jamieson... who is next in line? eddie betts? gartlett, yaarran? decent talent but nothing there to suggest you can mix it with any of the big boys - unless theyre having an off day and then we'll start hearing about the supposed carlton invincibility returning again.. remember we all smelt what you were cooking, and we knew you were coming - and now we are all just laughing at the rabble of a club you now are...


carlton will finish between 7-11th...only in the 8 if judd can carry your boys and others remain injury free...

they are called facts. but thats ok ignore them if you like, your ignorance doesnt alter the facts.

 

[Pluggeroo]

does anyone here honestly believe that theyd be better off in the long term without him? chewy might be right, but without judd carlton would be... well, we all know the answer to that.

Its an interesting notion.

If Judd were to get the shits and walk away tomorrow, in the short term it would perhaps reduce Carlton's effectiveness around the stoppages. But ultimately, it would expose the Murphy's, Gibbs', Simpson's and Carazzo's and co. to some time working out what it takes to become a genuine ball-winner.

And not just a ball winner, but a match-winner. At the moment, Judd is their only match-winner.

I see them drop off far too often when Judd gets the ball. They should be getting the pill off him on the way past, not allowing him to break 3 tackles and then sprint off down the field on his own.
And there is daylight between him and the next best.

If Judd wasnt there, there would be nowhere to hide for these guys. They would have to step up. So do I reckon it would be better for the Blues?

Absolutely!!!

 

[gardiner stand]

why dont all you carlton haters just admit that deep down inside you are envious of our rich and successful history?your hatred is born out of a profound jealousy and that is where your resentment comes from.
collingwood supporters especially are so fearful of us reaching the summit.
you have all relished in our recent failures but now its over,and by the way as another poster pointed out we havent been down for as long as it would seem,a reasonable 08, finals in 09 10 and finals in 01,so 6 pitful seasons will never erase a blue ribbon history.
remember jealousy is a curse

 

[OldBlueFan]

If Judd wasnt there, there would be nowhere to hide for these guys. They would have to step up. So do I reckon it would be better for the Blues?

Absolutely!!!

So, the fact that he's there providing an example both on the field and on the training track is of no benefit to those guys?

I love the way people forget that when Murphy last had a full pre-season and when Gibbs was played more in the middle (2009) they both finished in the top 10 in the brownlow. Even with Judd dominating and taking enough votes off them to finish 2nd himself.

 

[Boppo]

I think North, dees, Tiges, ade and port will all be eying off Carltons place in the eight. Where does the thinking in this thread title come from?

 

[Pluggeroo]

So, the fact that he's there providing an example both on the field and on the training track is of no benefit to those guys?

I love the way people forget that when Murphy last had a full pre-season and when Gibbs was played more in the middle (2009) they both finished in the top 10 in the brownlow. Even with Judd dominating and taking enough votes off them to finish 2nd himself.

Typically reading into things that clearly arent there.

The only way to learn, is to do it yourself. Currently they are letting Judd do it.

The Brownlow is the media's unofficial award. Umpires read papers, too, and they often actually believe what they read. Not hard to get votes with the rest of the rabble that run around there. That they are your top 3 speaks volumes about where your list is.

In any case, Brad Hardie won one. Need I say more?

 

[OldBlueFan]

If Collingwood had cheated to the level that Carlton have, I'd cease to follow them.

Carlton supporters need to realize that the mud slung about their tainted history will stick for generations.

You mean the way it's stuck for Essendon? Systematic breaches right through the period where they won a flag.

• In 1996, Essendon were fined a record $638,250 ($250,000 in back tax and penalties, $112,000 for draft tampering and $276,250 for breaching the salary cap regulations), forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft and were excluded from the 1997 rookie and pre-season drafts after a joint Australian Tax Office and AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $514,500 between 1991 and 1996.

The only thing that sticks is the absurd hatred that fans carry for teams throughout their lives. I got over my hatred of Collingwood, Essendon and Richmond when I got out of my teens, I guess for some it takes a little longer.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Typically reading into things that clearly arent there.

The only way to learn, is to do it yourself. Currently they are letting Judd do it.

The Brownlow is the media's unofficial award. Umpires read papers, too, and they often actually believe what they read. Not hard to get votes with the rest of the rabble that run around there. That they are your top 3 speaks volumes about where your list is.

In any case, Brad Hardie won one. Need I say more?

Oh really? And how did that work out for Dane Swan last year?

I didn't say that their performance in the brownlow put them in the top 10 players in the league, but it certainly suggests that they are capable of more than you were giving them credit for.

And you accuse me of reading into things that aren't there?

 

[butters78]

they are still 3 years away!! no ruck no forward line and an average backline. need at least 2 of those plus the fantastic midfield u already have

 

[Monkey King]

Typically reading into things that clearly arent there.

The only way to learn, is to do it yourself. Currently they are letting Judd do it.

Is this a self-assessment? Have you ever been part of a footy team, because what you're saying sounds so contrived? Having a gun mid doesn't stop anyone from learning; if anything it helps creates a better learning environment.

That they are your top 3 speaks volumes about where your list is.

Why? I'd say it would be a very comparable trio to your Copeland top 3 in Swan, Pendles and Daisy. (And actually Judd, Russell and Murphy were Carlton's B&F top 3 last season).

 

[Monkey King]

they are still 3 years away!! no ruck no forward line and an average backline. need at least 2 of those plus the fantastic midfield u already have

No ruck? WTF? You know things are going down hill when Chewy puts up one of the most insightful assessments in the thread.

I do agree we're still probably 3 years away, by when most of the key players will be closer to their physical peak. Anything before then would be pinching one like Hawthorn.

 

[the distributer]

if that helps you sleep at night... from 93 onwards you guys r*ped the salary cap system.. ill leave it at that. its tainted and will forever remain so. you can provide whatever conjured up non official statistics u like. it wont change my view.



back on the thread topic, which i strayed from, i cannot fathom the delusional
optimism in which carlton supporters view their team. its beyond me how these blokes actually rate their boys anywhere in the same sentence as the pies, cats, saints, hawks, dogs or to a lesser degree the dockers, swans and even young up and comers like the roos, tigers and dees....

im not being a carlton hater in this instance (although, i despised your team like no other when you were relevant) its just your list, imo (which may count for little but this is bigfooty) is a like a cheese grater... no matter which side you look at it from its full of holes - the thing is some sides have less holes than the others.

kruzer, judd, murphy, gibbs, jamieson... who is next in line? eddie betts? gartlett, yaarran? decent talent but nothing there to suggest you can mix it with any of the big boys - unless theyre having an off day and then we'll start hearing about the supposed carlton invincibility returning again.. remember we all smelt what you were cooking, and we knew you were coming - and now we are all just laughing at the rabble of a club you now are...


carlton will finish between 7-11th...only in the 8 if judd can carry your boys and others remain injury free...

i think you'll find most blues supporters know where they actually sit, sure a few go over the top but we have those fans too.

they arnt a bad side IMO, played finals the last 2 years and were desperatly unlucky not to win the brisbane final, pretty young list and all's they need to do is improve by 5% and they'll be in the running for a top 4 spot, i actually think they'll make the 4 this year with luck with injurys and such, i dont think they'll win a flag with that list though.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Why? I'd say it would be a very comparable trio to your Copeland top 3 in Swan, Pendles and Daisy. (And actually Judd, Russell and Murphy were Carlton's B&F top 3 last season).

Swan was better than Judd last season by a fair margin. I know Judd made the AA bench, but I thought he was lucky.

Pendlebury is better than both Murphy and Russell and his 2010 was streets ahead of both those guys. And Thomas is improving at a rate of knots.

The Collingwood trio are so far ahead it's not funny

 

[Monkey King]

Oh really? And how did that work out for Dane Swan last year?

Yeah, no shit. Umpires watch games ... while obviously Pluggeroo got stuck reading the articles that placed Swan as Brownlow favourite.

Next year Plugger, just head over the BF Brownlow thread. Unlike media, those blokes watch all the games too and have a good grasp on the spread. They'll set you straight, like these two ...

I love how everyone doesn't follow the Brownlow closely throughout the year and then when they don't agree with the winner they scream outrage.

Not only was the result not outrageous, it was closer to expected than unexpected.

So maybe next season, before anyone starts having a go at the winner of the Brownlow you go through and watch every game and then have a guess at who the winner of the Brownlow will be, it's surprisingly accurate!

 

[Monkey King]

Swan was better than Judd last season by a fair margin. I know Judd made the AA bench, but I thought he was lucky.

Pendlebury is better than both Murphy and Russell and his 2010 was streets ahead of both those guys. And Thomas is improving at a rate of knots.

The Collingwood trio are so far ahead it's not funny

Honestly mate, your insight on football is weak and troll infested. I can't even be bothered explaining it to you.

Maybe before replying, you could do some mental hard yards yourself and figure out the point being made and players being discussed.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Honestly mate, your insight on football is weak and troll infested. I can't even be bothered explaining it to you.

Maybe before replying, you could do some mental hard yards yourself and figure out the point and players being discussed.

I read the point and understood what was being discussed. You were implying your top 3 were comparable to Collingwoods top 3 B&F finishers. I simply said the Collingwood trio are much better.

I'm not trolling this thread at all. Just telling a few hard truths, which you refuse to acknowledge, due to your miniscule knowledge on the game and extremely biased views.

 

[Monkey King]

I read the point and understood what was being discussed. You were implying your top 3 were comparable to Collingwoods top 3 B&F finishers.

You didn't even get the players being discussed, let alone the point being made.

 

[soreplums]

premierships aren't won by the top 5 players in the team it's the bottom 5. Carlton's bottom 5, along with many other clubs, aren't as good as the bottom 5 from the top 4 teams.

You are getting better. But your supporters are getting ahead of themselves.

 

[Blue since 72]

premierships aren't won by the top 5 players in the team it's the bottom 5. Carlton's bottom 5, along with many other clubs, aren't as good as the bottom 5 from the top 4 teams.

You are getting better. But your supporters are getting ahead of themselves.

The OP aside I don't think you'll find too many Carlton supporters sensible or otherwise who think or expect the team to win a premiership in 2011, unless we do a Hawthorn, which I personally find unlikely.

My thoughts have been more along the lines of a shot at top 4 based on expected improvement from a predominately young list and, like every other team some luck with injuries.

You're right, anyone who is thinking GF berth and/or premiership is definately ahead of themselves. You wont even find the club suggesting this publically or privately.

 

[Monkey King]

The OP aside I don't think you'll find too many Carlton supporters sensible or otherwise who think or expect the team to win a premiership in 2011, unless we do a Hawthorn, which I personally find unlikely.

Dead set. I don't think there would be many supporters that genuinely believe we're a contender next year, beyond something extraordinary.

The only place I see us getting ahead of ourselves is in counting eggs as chickens. There's a lot of development left in the list and it doesn't always go according to plan.

Still, there is no reason we shouldn't be as excited by the future as any club from heren.