List Mgmt. Are we missing the boat by not trading??

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spot on. were not brave enough. instead we got a b grade ruckman and the team thinks that we are ready for a flag tilit. bulldust. we need to trade up and be brave with some combinations to get quality. I would have had foley on the to trade list with griffo and astbury and I tell yo what I would have had grigg there as well. all could have in some shape or form have gotten us upgrades in draft order.


Quantity does not equal quality.

We couldn't trade Griff as we just re-signed him. Astbury and Foley were both up for trade as was McGuane last year. Nobody wants them, even for upgrades they get out 3rd round and beyond picks.

We've beaten the 3 grand finalist from the last two years, we have a young list with our best players outside of Deledio in their early 20's. That means there is a heck of a lot if improvement to come. Dal Santo, Chapman and heck even Hampson wouldn't have won us that final against Carlton. Another year into Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin and Martin will make a way bigger difference.

The harsh reality is unless we give up our first round draft pick or a core senior player we had no currency. Instead we are backing the fact that Ellis, Rance, Vlastuin, Conca, Cotchin, Martin, Vickery, Grimes and Morris will improve naturally. Deledio and Foley you would hope have better outputs after down years and finally Arnot, Helbig, McDonough, Griffiths, Elton, McBean, Williams, Bachelor, Darrou, Dea, Astbury, O'Hanlon and pick 12 will naturally improve as well placing more pressure on the senior side. All of them have at stages dominated VFL level and some have show ability at AFL level and most are 21 or younger.
 
Yes. We tried to palm him off.

well we didn't try hard enough then.

Dom Tyson was a 3rd round draft pick a few years back who bleed yellow & black. He's been described as the next Simon Black. We should have offered Foley & pick 3.

Carlton just used our pick 28 which became 33 (swap for Hampson) for Docherty.

Delidio and pick 12 would have seen us score Adams & Tyson. A grade talent with 10 years ahead of them, with 2 years of solid development already behind them. That's 20 years of players, compared to Lids who's got about 4 years left and still isn't elite. And Pick 12 could take years to develop - don't assume he'll be a freak like Vlas playing good footy straight away.

Cairo is right. We're not brave enough and fortune favours the brave.

Hope this doesn't bite us on the bum.

ps - Bulldogs & Port have also done well in trades. Watch them soar.
 

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also, if Vickery doesn't pull his finger out this year, they should look to move him on.

The raps are way too high for this bloke who's barely fired a shot.

And it will be interesting to see how well Riewoldt goes this year in his new up field role. Got a feeling this could be a bust. Just think he is suited to FF and that's about it. Hasn't got the tank, speed or aerobic capacity to be HF.
 
also, if Vickery doesn't pull his finger out this year, they should look to move him on.

The raps are way too high for this bloke who's barely fired a shot.

And it will be interesting to see how well Riewoldt goes this year in his new up field role. Got a feeling this could be a bust. Just think he is suited to FF and that's about it. Hasn't got the tank, speed or aerobic capacity to be HF.

Your right perhaps next year our lazy recruiters can get off their arse and offer GWS Jake King for Cameron and Foley would definitely net us an early first rounder if we bothered to ask!
 
Re Riewolt - we haven't seen him injury free for a few years now and his role has changed (and it worked based on our success this year) but I tend to agree I like to see him clunking marks in the square although we don't want to return to being a single forward focus side
 
that's rubbish and simplistic and just a cop out.

Melbourne took Bernie Vince ffs. I'm pretty sure Foley, Vickery, Griffiths, Astbury, S.Edwards, Grigg, Dea, Elton all had currency and could have been packaged in a variety of ways to facilitate good trades for Adams, Tyson and Longer. Even Delidio should almost be tradeable. He's regular tagged out of games and had a mediocre year for a supposed top player.

That's the list managers job - to get creative and work the trades. We've sat on our hands when all we got is a mediocre list. Wouldn't be surprised if Norf, Pies, Carlton and Ess fly by us next year.

I'm sure gws would have taken Foley & Astbury for Tyson. We missed the boat by being lazy and once again over rating our players and list.

Just on this. Firstly we do not overate our list any longer. Damien Hardwicks time at the club should show us all that. Name another club, other then Melbourne who have cut there list so dramatically then us during Hardwicks time ? This time around we are confident that our list finally has some decent talent to work with. Even the biggest knocker of our club would agree with that. Is it enough for a Flag ? Nope but our campaign is still ongoing. We have cut the list, drafted talent. Allowed some of that talent to develop a year in the twos and also recruited for need.

At our stage now its time for this group to have another preseason together. We have let go the deadwood as well and will again rejuvenate somewhat our list with this years draft. IMO this is the stability period we need as next year when upto 8 quality free agents are in the market with also a strong draft we can then make informed decisions on our list, not just trade for trading sake. Look at melbourne last year if you want to see what can happen when a club trades for trades sake to appear to be proactive to the masses.

As to Foley and Astbury they are CONTRACTED. They can refuse to want to leave. Cameron hurt us by signing Foley on a contract that in todays market is way overs unfortunately. No club wanted to carry that contract over and we did not want to do a collingwood and pay a portion of it ala Shaw to GWS. So we keep Foley and give him every chance to re establish himself this year.
 
well we didn't try hard enough then.

Dom Tyson was a 3rd round draft pick a few years back who bleed yellow & black. He's been described as the next Simon Black. We should have offered Foley & pick 3.

Carlton just used our pick 28 which became 33 (swap for Hampson) for Docherty.

Delidio and pick 12 would have seen us score Adams & Tyson. A grade talent with 10 years ahead of them, with 2 years of solid development already behind them. That's 20 years of players, compared to Lids who's got about 4 years left and still isn't elite. And Pick 12 could take years to develop - don't assume he'll be a freak like Vlas playing good footy straight away.

Cairo is right. We're not brave enough and fortune favours the brave.

Hope this doesn't bite us on the bum.

ps - Bulldogs & Port have also done well in trades. Watch them soar.

Wow. Serious?

How do you know we didn't try hard enough? You can't make a club take someone they don't want? Maybe they'd offer pick 100 and we pay half his salary and then you'd start a thread bitching about how bad the trade is?

Tyson wasn't a 3rd round pick. He was a pick no.3 who has done nothing yet. "Described as the next Simon Black" Have you actually seen him or just read about him and got a hard on about it?

Foley and pick 3? We didn't have pick 3.

Have you seen Docherty play? He's crap.

Adams wanted too much money. FFS he didn't nominate us. Pick 12 for him would have been about value. We will get an equivalent player there. So you effectively want to swap Lids for Tyson. Hahahaha

Should trade Cotch for pick 40. He's got 12 years ahead of him compared to cotch with about 7-8.

How have the Bulldogs done well? You want us to chase Crameri? Bulldogs made 1 trade too. How is that being active and doing well? They did exactly the same as us but just took 3 weeks to do it.
 
well we didn't try hard enough then.

Dom Tyson was a 3rd round draft pick a few years back who bleed yellow & black. He's been described as the next Simon Black. We should have offered Foley & pick 3.

Carlton just used our pick 28 which became 33 (swap for Hampson) for Docherty.

Delidio and pick 12 would have seen us score Adams & Tyson. A grade talent with 10 years ahead of them, with 2 years of solid development already behind them. That's 20 years of players, compared to Lids who's got about 4 years left and still isn't elite. And Pick 12 could take years to develop - don't assume he'll be a freak like Vlas playing good footy straight away.

Cairo is right. We're not brave enough and fortune favours the brave.

Hope this doesn't bite us on the bum.

ps - Bulldogs & Port have also done well in trades. Watch them soar.

This would have been the greatest trade coup in history..............:rolleyes:
 
Just a quick observation on those who are keen to trade Lids for xyz due to his 'inability to shake a tag'. Ignoring the question of whether this is true, if Lids leaves the team then someone else is going to cop the tag he would've otherwise taken. Crowley will go to Cotch, Ellis, Martin etc. Lids is tagged week in, week out, and whether he struggles or not, it frees up the rest of our midfield to run more freely.
 
Wow, it blows me away reading some of the critical opinions here - its way over the top and unreasonable considering what we know and have good reason to believe.

1) Does anyone think our officials are just sitting in an isolation chamber and not participating in the trade week process? They have been carefully testing the waters, seeing who might be interested and what would be required, being subtle about it so our players don't hear their names being thrown about in the media and get pissed off.

2) Adams for one identified Collingwood as his new home early on, and the Magpies were willing to pay extra for him. Similarly, Tyson went for the money. I'm very happy that we aren't getting sucked in to bidding wars and paying more for 'unproven' talent, which would stuff up our future salary cap management and free agent recruitment.

3) Unfortunately Foley simply isn't of interest to other clubs because of his chronic injury problems over several seasons. There is more value in keeping him and seeing if he can finally get over those injuries.

4) Other guys are similarly worth little on the market at the moment, or are considered key players. For example, why would you trade a heart-and-soul player like Deledio, to overpay for two 'unproven' inside mids, when he is our only semi-elite line-breaking runner?

5) The club is right to trust their list of developing youngsters - they work with them every day, so they would know. And they obviously want to build team spirit and club solidarity, and you don't do that by trading out your key players and core clubmen for players who want to be payed more than their equivalents in the club. This ain't SuperCoach!

6) None of the players touted as our supposed trade targets are IMO outstanding players who warrant big salaries at this stage of their careers and giving up good players for. But keep an eye out for who become available next year. I have no doubt that next year there will be players who see Richmond as a premiership contender and will jump at the chance (on reasonable pay) to be a part of the Tiger assault in the near future.

7) Melbourne and Saints are going through pretty extensive rebuilds; Collingwood is going through a mini-rebuild; GWS has no choice but to take what it can get for its departures, and Brisbane would do the same if it could; Sydney are offloading due to the extent of the Buddy deal; and Essendon are just plain desperate. We on the other hand are making our way up the ladder in a sustainable fashion and doing it smart.

Bottom line: there is no reason to believe that because we have been quiet this trade period, that our future success is jeopardised.
 
that's rubbish and simplistic


I'm sure gws would have taken Foley & Astbury for Tyson. We missed the boat by being lazy and once again over rating our players and list.
The irony in the one post.
 

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Another note, talk of trading Lids in my opinion is dead set ******* ludicrous.

Although, it would be interesting to see the same peoples reactions should Lids have asked to be traded to GWS.

Similar to when we thought Dusty was on his way there?
 
well we didn't try hard enough then.

Dom Tyson was a 3rd round draft pick a few years back who bleed yellow & black. He's been described as the next Simon Black. We should have offered Foley & pick 3.

Carlton just used our pick 28 which became 33 (swap for Hampson) for Docherty.

Delidio and pick 12 would have seen us score Adams & Tyson. A grade talent with 10 years ahead of them, with 2 years of solid development already behind them. That's 20 years of players, compared to Lids who's got about 4 years left and still isn't elite. And Pick 12 could take years to develop - don't assume he'll be a freak like Vlas playing good footy straight away.

Cairo is right. We're not brave enough and fortune favours the brave.

Hope this doesn't bite us on the bum.

ps - Bulldogs & Port have also done well in trades. Watch them soar.
Biggest load of
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ever posted on BF.
 
Would love Shane Nelson at 50 or 68.
Not to mention my own personal reasons.:)

I have no idea who that is Cevap (not a draft watcher haha) - what kind of player is he? How old?

Do you know him personally or something? :)
 
I have no idea who that is Cevap (not a draft watcher haha) - what kind of player is he? How old?

Do you know him personally or something? :)
Short pacy mid/fwd. Suspect tackling and glandular fever(?) in his draft year saw him miss. He's about 20 and loves motorcross, which is one of the risk factors about him that have seen him snubbed. Think cevap's cousin is his girlfriend or something along those lines.
 
I have no idea who that is Cevap (not a draft watcher haha) - what kind of player is he? How old?

Do you know him personally or something? :)

Hes played 2 years in the WALF, Won the BnF for West Perth this year (West Perth are this years premiers), Came 3rd in the 20m sprint, 1st in the kicking test for the 2010 draft combine. His still young 20yrs old only knock on him hes quite small.

And yes i know him personally.
 
Short pacy mid/fwd. Suspect tackling and glandular fever(?) in his draft year saw him miss. He's about 20 and loves motorcross, which is one of the risk factors about him that have seen him snubbed. Think cevap's cousin is his girlfriend or something along those lines.
The funny thing is he sometimes reads bigfooty and he doesnt understand the motorcross side of things. His father was state champion or something like that but he himself doesn't ride.
 
Short pacy mid/fwd. Suspect tackling and glandular fever(?) in his draft year saw him miss. He's about 20 and loves motorcross, which is one of the risk factors about him that have seen him snubbed. Think cevap's cousin is his girlfriend or something along those lines.

Nice, could address both needs (of a good small forward and pace injection into the team) with the one player. Bit of a daredevil by the sounds of it! Could probably use a few of those types around the club, sounds like he could be an excitement machine haha.

Does he have any interest from clubs in the upcoming drafts? Did he have a good season that put him on any radars?
 
Hes played 2 years in the WALF, Won the BnF for West Perth this year (West Perth are this years premiers), Came 3rd in the 20m sprint, 1st in the kicking test for the 2010 draft combine. His still young 20yrs old only knock on him hes quite small.

And yes i know him personally.


Has he stayed with you yet mate? Any goss?
 

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List Mgmt. Are we missing the boat by not trading??

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