Are we the worst side in the AFL.

[who gives a]

we are an average team plus some of the coaching moves amaze me, very dissapointed with the season and we are a way long off in playing in the finals

 

[Mr Q]

Granted a lot of our mids are young but that is no reason at all their age why they can't hit a target, why they handball to stationary targets and don't know what to do when they get the ball. of course they are entitled to make mistakes as they are young but they are not entitled to make mistake after mistake after mistake.

Oh, come on. I know you're a doom and gloom merchant, but....

Of course their inexperience is why they can't hit a target reliably - they don't have a proper sense of the pace of the game, how much space they have - and how much they need, or even a sense of their own abilities.

Until they get that they're going to feel they're under a lot more pressure than they really are, which is always going to result in panicky football. It's irrelevant whether the pressure is real or imagined.

 

[dynamite_kid]

OMG "eyes shut"

Are you serious?

You think that Fremantle scoring one goal in a match is better than how we're going?

 

[Alvey]

Are you serious?

You think that Fremantle scoring one goal in a match is better than how we're going?

We will find out that this week won't we We have played some good footy this year but so have the other 4 bottom dwellers at times.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Oh, come on. I know you're a doom and gloom merchant, but....

Of course their inexperience is why they can't hit a target reliably - they don't have a proper sense of the pace of the game, how much space they have - and how much they need, or even a sense of their own abilities.

Until they get that they're going to feel they're under a lot more pressure than they really are, which is always going to result in panicky football. It's irrelevant whether the pressure is real or imagined.

They are not straight out of Auskick as you seem to think they are. There mummy's are not there to stick up for them as you think they are.
they have played very serious intense football in under 18's championships and know exactly like what it is like to play with pressure. granted the pressure is another step up but stop treating them like they are 8 years old.
You have the ball you are 20m in the clear, you are being paid as a professional to hit a target. you can afford to miss now and again but not 70% of the time. You can either do it or you can't.

Stop making excuses for them. they are the best 0f the best.

 

[ziad]

They are not straight out of Auskick as you seem to think they are. There mummy's are not there to stick up for them as you think they are.
they have played very serious intense football in under 18's championships and know exactly like what it is like to play with pressure. granted the pressure is another step up but stop treating them like they are 8 years old.
You have the ball you are 20m in the clear, you are being paid as a professional to hit a target. you can afford to miss now and again but not 70% of the time. You can either do it or you can't.

Stop making excuses for them. they are the best 0f the best.

The step in pace from U18 to AFL is huge if not massive, the team coordination and defensive skills gap is even greater. The pressure is thus X times greater.

You have no arguement.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The step in pace from U18 to AFL is huge if not massive, the team coordination and defensive skills gap is even greater. The pressure is thus X times greater.

You have no arguement.

Football is football mate, if you really feel simply because you step up in intensity you lose all ability to kick , mark or handball then you have either never played sport or football at any level or simply are one of those people who think these poor buggers are under enormous pressure to perform and thus they need our sympathy why they don't when they are paid to do so.

You either can or you can't! its that simple. you can't have it both ways champ.

Again I will say they are not Auskick players, they know the pressure will be there. They need to adjust. you want to give them 50 games or even a 100. if they have not adjusted to the pressure within 10 games then they simply won't make it.

Arguement????? you have not got a clue!

 

[BOND 007]

The gap between U18's (which after all is an advanced form of colts) and AFL is substantial - far greater than what anybody is prepared for. For the great majority it takes a couple of years to condition yourself to the training regime - let alone the pace of the actual game itself.

GWS I agree with the main thrust of your argument - it is not the players who are the problem it is the gameplan. Nobody will convince me that kicking it high to Lecras and hoping he can mark it is sensible. To rub salt into the wound they position Lynch, Kennedy and Hansen in the forward line and STILL kick it to Lecras.
Can anybody out there explain that to me???
It is like having little Matera all over again.
If thats the best Worsfold can do then resigning him was a mistake. If it Sumich's plan then he needs to be moved on at years end irregardless whether he gets Richmonds job or not.
The gameplan is crap and having Cousins and Judd playing in blue and gold again is not going to make the gameplan any less crap.

 

[zigskillz]

the handball to team mate next to/behind them and always under pressure SH*TS ME TO TEARS and it seems to happen more than any other team.
Worst part is, it's always our "senior" players guilty of this.

but, no worse than australian cricket team

 

[bodazoka]

Im hoping that next year the AFL consider us a basket case and decide to give us allot of easy home games v bottom/middle run teams. And only 1 game v the top 4 teams.

 

[The Passenger]

we're not the worst team in the competition. we've got the worst skills by foot, but we make up for that with hard work (usually)....

personally, for a young team, i'd rather a hard working team with shit skills than the other way around. those skills can be worked on most of the time. if a team isn't prepared to work then generally that's not gonna change much.

i've said it many times but we are much better placed than we were circa 2001.

 

[bodazoka]

They need to adjust. you want to give them 50 games or even a 100. if they have not adjusted to the pressure within 10 games then they simply won't make it.

<--- Doesnt fully express it.

 

[Obeanie1]

Football is football mate, if you really feel simply because you step up in intensity you lose all ability to kick , mark or handball then you have either never played sport or football at any level or simply are one of those people who think these poor buggers are under enormous pressure to perform and thus they need our sympathy why they don't when they are paid to do so.

You either can or you can't! its that simple. you can't have it both ways champ.

Again I will say they are not Auskick players, they know the pressure will be there. They need to adjust. you want to give them 50 games or even a 100. if they have not adjusted to the pressure within 10 games then they simply won't make it.

Arguement????? you have not got a clue!

OMG, are you sure you typed this correctly.

Kevin Sheedy has stated the first 50 games of an AFL player is their apprentership, after 50 games you can really start expecting the best from them.

Does Sheedy have no idea GWS?

Cox couldn't run or kick when he started with us, lucky we didn't give him the flick after 10 games!

NickNat seem's to have been told not to kick at all, what should we do after his game 10? Give up because his kicking isn't the same level as Cox?

10 games by a first year players means very little. They may have just completed one pre season but everyone knows its takes two or three pre seasons to build your core strength and endurance. The first thing that drops away if you are struggling fitness wise is your skills so at AFL level you need several years to build your fitness base before you will show your best skills on game day.

You can't expect a 18 or 19 year old to turn up with skinny arms and legs and show you the best skills they will ever have within 10 games.

 

[Eagle Number1000]

Again I will say they are not Auskick players, they know the pressure will be there. They need to adjust. you want to give them 50 games or even a 100. if they have not adjusted to the pressure within 10 games then they simply won't make it.

Arguement????? you have not got a clue!

Disagree with you, All young players that come through usually take about 2-3 years before they start showing they can make it a AFL. And in 10 games you really can't see sh*t about what they could turn into. I judge players on potential and if they look like they could make it. Most of our young players have potential- adjusting to AFL takes about 2-3 years- 50 games.

If this is an Arguement then you have just lost- check mate!

 

[archiemoses]

Disagree with you, All young players that come through usually take about 2-3 years before they start showing they can make it a AFL. And in 10 games you really can't see sh*t about what they could turn into. I judge players on potential and if they look like they could make it. Most of our young players have potential- adjusting to AFL takes about 2-3 years- 50 games.

If this is an Arguement then you have just lost- check mate!

Agree with you and Obeanie1.

Next Melbourne will be saying Jurrah is more awesome than Naita. Oh wait, they ARE!

If we lose to freo, we will still be better because of %

 

[eagles rule]

We are close to being the worst team and the best team in the AFL on any

given day.Some games early in the year it was only one bad quarter when we

switched off during games and the other team got away from us that we lost.

When we play 4 committed quarters our best is very good.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

OMG, are you sure you typed this correctly.

Kevin Sheedy has stated the first 50 games of an AFL player is their apprentership, after 50 games you can really start expecting the best from them.

Does Sheedy have no idea GWS?

Cox couldn't run or kick when he started with us, lucky we didn't give him the flick after 10 games!

NickNat seem's to have been told not to kick at all, what should we do after his game 10? Give up because his kicking isn't the same level as Cox?

10 games by a first year players means very little. They may have just completed one pre season but everyone knows its takes two or three pre seasons to build your core strength and endurance. The first thing that drops away if you are struggling fitness wise is your skills so at AFL level you need several years to build your fitness base before you will show your best skills on game day.

You can't expect a 18 or 19 year old to turn up with skinny arms and legs and show you the best skills they will ever have within 10 games.

In fact I have type that poorly, my point is not that won't make it I was talking about their skill level and being adjusted to the intensity of an AFL game. Surely you should pick up the heat and intensity within 10 games?

You do not need several years to show us you can kick, mark and handball. We should know whether you can by the time you are 12 years old. Fitness and strength will build over a few years but your skills aint changing my friend.

 

[Marlin01]

You do not need several years to show us you can kick, mark and handball. We should know whether you can by the time you are 12 years old. Fitness and strength will build over a few years but your skills aint changing my friend.

You might if you've had multiple knee reco's or OP.

 

[bodazoka]

In fact I have type that poorly, my point is not that won't make it I was talking about their skill level and being adjusted to the intensity of an AFL game. Surely you should pick up the heat and intensity within 10 games?

You do not need several years to show us you can kick, mark and handball. We should know whether you can by the time you are 12 years old. Fitness and strength will build over a few years but your skills aint changing my friend.

You just keep coming out with jems dont ya

<--- two of them now cant express the wowness factor in that statement.

Why do we have a skills coach then?

p.s. I have recently had the call up from my footy teams reserve level to our senior level. I estimate that it will take at least half the year to adjust to the new level, luckily for me though I am fairly fit and are as big as most players. If I was a skinny kid playing the same level I would estimate that it would take at least a pre-season to adjust to the new level. And that is country football.

 

[drexel]

I'm pretty sure we are made to purposely look worse than we are and not just for tanking purposes. We play too tall with not much gameplan, freestyle... but this creates positives.

A tougher situation will force the players to develop quicker then they normally would and also become better than they might've if they were just eased in. Eg Butler, Jones, Nicoski etc looked like potential guns when the team was firing but they're being found out now.

Essentially there's no point Cox, Kerr, Glass, Wirra trying to carry this new breed in their developing stage or they just won't develop well. IE you know Masten is a gun already if he can dominate without Kerr, Cox and co but you never saw Butler and co do ***all without top tier players.

 

[Obeanie1]

In fact I have type that poorly, my point is not that won't make it I was talking about their skill level and being adjusted to the intensity of an AFL game. Surely you should pick up the heat and intensity within 10 games?

You do not need several years to show us you can kick, mark and handball. We should know whether you can by the time you are 12 years old. Fitness and strength will build over a few years but your skills aint changing my friend.

Practice makes perfect and 10 AFL games as a 18 or 19 year old isn't a whole lot of practice.

As mentioned we also have a skills coach, it would take more than 10 games for any deficiencies to be assessed and addressed. I'd suggest (hope ) Nick Nat will be a better kick in two or three years than he is now.

Look at Pridis, I believe he was making poor decisions when caught with the ball in tight situations, he was just kicking it blindly forward without looking and turning it over. Now he seems to be avoiding the blind kick and looks to handball backwards to a target and work the ball out from the back of the packs with team mates.

With increased fitness and experience players start learning where to run, how to move the ball forwards, sideways or back. This also leads to players making better decisions and having more time to dispose the ball by hand or foot. By creating space and time their skills do improve, they aren't rushing a kick under pressure. Basically they start playing smarter as they know what they need to do instinctively as opposed to being young and having to THINK 'gee I've got the ball, what should I do with it'. This is about learning the game plan and understanding how your team mates play. I tell you something, under 12's is not pretty to watch nor is there a great amount of team work out there.

I think it was last week a commentator said about the Saints, 'These guys are just playing great team footy, they just know what their team mates are doing without even having to look'.

Thats why teams take years to gel and play as a team, it takes time and as players develop smarts and the team develops so do the skills.

The Saints are looking a hell of alot more skillfull this year than the past, and pretty much the same players are out there.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Practice makes perfect and 10 AFL games as a 18 or 19 year old isn't a whole lot of practice.

As mentioned we also have a skills coach, it would take more than 10 games for any deficiencies to be assessed and addressed. I'd suggest (hope ) Nick Nat will be a better kick in two or three years than he is now.

Look at Pridis, I believe he was making poor decisions when caught with the ball in tight situations, he was just kicking it blindly forward without looking and turning it over. Now he seems to be avoiding the blind kick and looks to handball backwards to a target and work the ball out from the back of the packs with team mates.

With increased fitness and experience players start learning where to run, how to move the ball forwards, sideways or back. This also leads to players making better decisions and having more time to dispose the ball by hand or foot. By creating space and time their skills do improve, they aren't rushing a kick under pressure. Basically they start playing smarter as they know what they need to do instinctively as opposed to being young and having to THINK 'gee I've got the ball, what should I do with it'. This is about learning the game plan and understanding how your team mates play. I tell you something, under 12's is not pretty to watch nor is there a great amount of team work out there.

I think it was last week a commentator said about the Saints, 'These guys are just playing great team footy, they just know what their team mates are doing without even having to look'.

Thats why teams take years to gel and play as a team, it takes time and as players develop smarts and the team develops so do the skills.

The Saints are looking a hell of alot more skillfull this year than the past, and pretty much the same players are out there.

So Fletcher has not been doing the sessions put on by these skills coaches? what about Rosa? Priddis?

I agree their decision making will improve you would hope which would allow them a touch more time but their actual ability to kick won't change much at all.
Someone like Natanui may improve his kicking but it is not his natuaral game and he has not been playing it all his life.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You just keep coming out with jems dont ya

<--- two of them now cant express the wowness factor in that statement.

Why do we have a skills coach then?

p.s. I have recently had the call up from my footy teams reserve level to our senior level. I estimate that it will take at least half the year to adjust to the new level, luckily for me though I am fairly fit and are as big as most players. If I was a skinny kid playing the same level I would estimate that it would take at least a pre-season to adjust to the new level. And that is country football.

mate I would be working on picking up the pace then because you may not get invited to pre season if you plan on taking half a season to find the tempo.

Look the bottom line is that you are a young fellow and thats great, I wish I was still playing like you but I just don't buy it because an AFL official says it is so.

Its puppetry at its best and you guys swallow it in mouth fulls. They say and you guys just believe it.

If they say it takes 50 games then you believe them but there are examples after example like Judd and Rich which defy that.

The media feed you guys and they know you will lap it up, and thats fine because you have never seen it different.

 

[Marlin01]

The media feed you guys and they know you will lap it up, and thats fine because you have never seen it different.

I don't buy anything the media feeds me. I'm about the most cynical person in the world when it comes to the media.

You only have to look at Chris Masten to see it can take more than 10 games for a player to find the pace. I'm not suggesting Masten has arrived as a player by any means, but blind Freddy could see his last handful of games have been a significant improvement. It just so happens that these games have come as his body starts to recover from OP. We have a lot of young players with bodies that are not currently 100%. Ebert, Swift and Shuey to name a few. So fitness is definitely a factor.

Also, look at Glass and Hunter. I can honestly say, I thought they were the biggest couple of spuds I'd ever seen. They took 3 or 4 years to develop to the point of being adequate, nevermind key premiership players.

I think a few supporters have forgotten that our premiership "stars" were not always fantastic players in their own right and it was a combination of great team work and knowing their roles which combined together to make them look like terrific players. Sure we had stars, but we also had blokes that were average to good players, that knew and played their role well.

I'm not suggesting all our young blokes will end up being stars, they almost certainly won't, but it's far too early to write them off. Furthermore, we don't need them all to be stars, they've just got to learn their roles and how to play them. This can take a few seasons.

 

[Obeanie1]

mate I would be working on picking up the pace then because you may not get invited to pre season if you plan on taking half a season to find the tempo.

Look the bottom line is that you are a young fellow and thats great, I wish I was still playing like you but I just don't buy it because an AFL official says it is so.

Its puppetry at its best and you guys swallow it in mouth fulls. They say and you guys just believe it.

If they say it takes 50 games then you believe them but there are examples after example like Judd and Rich which defy that.

The media feed you guys and they know you will lap it up, and thats fine because you have never seen it different.

Judd and Rich are the cream, the top line skillfull players. Rich also has a mature body size for his age which does help.

And there are plenty of example out there of players who have improved plenty over time or have changed clubs and come good.

Game day skills is a confidence issue as well, as soon as these young guys go from juniors or WAFL crowds on <2,000 spectators to playing at Subi with 40,000 it can take time for their nerves to settle and gain confidence.

Is this concept hard to understand?

If for some reason a player falls out with the coach their confidence drops and they play under their capacity, they move clubs and are supported by the coaches they become good players. How many times have you heard or read someone say "Why didn't that guy play that good when he was with us!"

Plenty of examples of this!

This is all factual GWS, not club or media spin, its happened before and will happen again. Remember footy players are human beings, complex animals that are diverse in nature and getting the best out of each of them is not simple and no one method works for all.

Cheers