Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[ferball]

Buddhism is as much of a philosophy as religion, isn't it?

Any belief system that proposes a way of life as opposed to claiming ownership of the truth is outside the bounds of scholarly critique to some extent. Satanism is in the same bracket, and it's a combination of philosophy and parody religion.

Adherents of religions often get swept up in the goal of defending their beliefs rather than provide objective analysis to form evidence of its truthfulness, leaving us with disparate belief systems that have the same foundation of subjective personal experience and twisting of scripture to prove miraculous fulfillment of prophecies and scientific accuracy.

Apologetics is a massive sham. Christians should ask themselves why their apologetics aren't convincing to anyone that doesn't already believe. I suppose we've all been blinded by the devil.

I generally agree. Hinudism is interesting, (and my old man was a Hindu.) Its not got a central authority but does have many competing beliefs and different dieties. The consistent thing I've found in it is that your "evil side" needs to be controlled by your conscious mind as much as possible to bring out your best side. Its essentially what Freud said about the Ego, Super Ego and Id. or what mid 20th century cartoon say when they place a devil on one shoulder of the character and an angel on the other.

Have you ever had a serious dose of DMT or other tryptamines?

Its hard to have those intense high dose trips and come away without the feeling you've just met something else, outside of reality.

 

[Vdubs]

Posters like Total Power and Roylion definitely have more bible knowledge than you and I. There's nothing wrong with admitting you're out of your depth at times...I mean, it would save you from making a fool of yourself if you did so.

They have great resources at their fingertips and are well read. No issue there at all. I am not here to spew out the depth of my reading, or lack thereof, but as I said, to answer why many of us have a faith, and how it impacts our lives, and how easy it is to accept Jesus for what the Bible says about Him.

 

[Evolved1]

I generally agree. Hinudism is interesting, (and my old man was a Hindu.) Its not got a central authority but does have many competing beliefs and different dieties. The consistent thing I've found in it is that your "evil side" needs to be controlled by your conscious mind as much as possible to bring out your best side. Its essentially what Freud said about the Ego, Super Ego and Id. or what mid 20th century cartoon say when they place a devil on one shoulder of the character and an angel on the other.

Have you ever had a serious dose of DMT or other tryptamines?

Its hard to have those intense high dose trips and come away without the feeling you've just met something else, outside of reality.

I haven't tried anything beyond weed, and that's probably for the best given I'm holding on to reality by the barest of threads as it is. On that note, I hope you've put a few dollars on the Bombers for the 2021 premiership!

I don't put a lot of weight on subjective personal experiences and testimonies because they're tainted by our own biases.

 

[Evolved1]

They have great resources at their fingertips and are well read. No issue there at all. I am not here to spew out the depth of my reading, or lack thereof, but as I said, to answer why many of us have a faith, and how it impacts our lives, and how easy it is to accept Jesus for what the Bible says about Him.

I think it hurts your claim to have 'the truth' when you refuse to listen to those who have more knowledge than you on a subject.

I can see where you're coming from to some extent because I feel the same way about Carlton supporters who are smarter than me. Clearly they've been blinded by something evil.

 

[Richard Pryor]

r

I generally agree. Hinudism is interesting, (and my old man was a Hindu.) Its not got a central authority but does have many competing beliefs and different dieties. The consistent thing I've found in it is that your "evil side" needs to be controlled by your conscious mind as much as possible to bring out your best side. Its essentially what Freud said about the Ego, Super Ego and Id. or what mid 20th century cartoon say when they place a devil on one shoulder of the character and an angel on the other.

Have you ever had a serious dose of DMT or other tryptamines?

Its hard to have those intense high dose trips and come away without the feeling you've just met something else, outside of reality.

my impression is that Hinduism is sort of like Abrahamic more than Christian, an overarching term for a very vast collection of beliefs. Bibek Debroy recently completed an unabridged translation of the full Mahabharata. Started reading first volume, it's written (or translated) in quite an engaging way, reads a bit like a high fantasy novel really.

 

[Corpuscles]

They have great resources at their fingertips and are well read. No issue there at all. I am not here to spew out the depth of my reading, or lack thereof, but as I said, to answer why many of us have a faith, and how it impacts our lives, and how easy it is to accept Jesus for what the Bible says about Him.

fwiw I would like to congratulate you on the quality of your replies in the thread recently ( Outstanding genuine humility and speaking from the heart)
You are here to talk about your life experiences and share them not to engage in Theological argument. Ought be completely understood!
As I have maintained all along if it makes you happy and a better person, then that can only be a good thing.

I think the verse your replies to TP was missing was :

2 Corinthians 3:4-6
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Just a minor correction, for educational purposes :

You said : " You persist in referring to Yahweh as Yehwah- minor issue but fundamental. "
Nah there are no vowels in Semitic Hebrew "YHWH" is the blokes written name. The pronunciation is a guess.

The big problem for me is:

The apostle Paul stated, "If Christ be not risen, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain, yea, and we are found false witness of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ … and if Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain; you are still in your sins.… If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable" (1 Corinthians 15:14, 15, 17, 19, KJV).

The contradictory, absurd, often impossible, various accounts of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection is a show stopper to TRUTH (imho) but that does not matter to any who gain joy from believing these muddled fables as being somehow true!

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[Evolved1]

I wish someone would ****ing congratulate me just ****ing once on the quality of my posting.

 

[Corpuscles]

I wish someone would ******* congratulate me just ******* once on the quality of my posting.

Duly noted

Keep trying and persisting . We'll let you know in CAPITAL LETTERS when that happens!

 

[Corpuscles]

rmy impression is that Hinduism is sort of like Abrahamic more than Christian, an overarching term for a very vast collection of beliefs. Bibek Debroy recently completed an unabridged translation of the full Mahabharata. Started reading first volume, it's written (or translated) in quite an engaging way, reads a bit like a high fantasy novel really.

The beauty of the Vedic literature is that it does not disguise the fact that the stories are metaphorical and philosophical.

Their ultimate the supreme entity Brahman, is also profound - completely unknowable.

Thanks for the heads up I will try to obtain a copy of it. I have never managed to get through the whole thing.

Some of them are worthy and equal in imagination to LOtR! <me ducks for cover>

 

[Boston tiger]

fwiw I would like to congratulate you on the quality of your replies in the thread recently ( Outstanding genuine humility and speaking from the heart)
You are here to talk about your life experiences and share them not to engage in Theological argument. Ought be completely understood!
As I have maintained all along if it makes you happy and a better person, then that can only be a good thing.

I think the verse your replies to TP was missing was :

2 Corinthians 3:4-6
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Just a minor correction, for educational purposes :

You said : " You persist in referring to Yahweh as Yehwah- minor issue but fundamental. "
Nah there are no vowels in Semitic Hebrew "YHWH" is the blokes written name. The pronunciation is a guess.

The big problem for me is:

The apostle Paul stated, "If Christ be not risen, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain, yea, and we are found false witness of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ … and if Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain; you are still in your sins.… If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable" (1 Corinthians 15:14, 15, 17, 19, KJV).

The contradictory, absurd, often impossible, various accounts of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection is a show stopper to TRUTH (imho) but that does not matter to any who gain joy from believing these muddled fables as being somehow true!

Often impossible? Miracles ? No

 

[Corpuscles]

Often impossible? Miracles ? No

It is better that you just quietly believe than challenge it.

The impossible

That the sun was completely blocked out for 3 hours and no one else on the planet observed or recorded it. Neither do the other 3 gospel story tellers
Passover by definition occurs at the full moon. Anyway Eclipse lasts approx 8 minutes.

Resurrection itself ought not be s big deal if you believe the Bible
Elijah is said to have raised a child from the dead
You have heard of Lazarus? Maybe he was only in a coma but more likely just a story

Jesus has his Passover meal , goes to the Garden to pray (who to?) Peter cuts off a Romans ear with a sword and Jesus glues it back on ( why did Peter have a sword when he told em turn the other cheek) then somehow Pontus Pilate has full court in the evening (likely past midnight)? I guess you mean GOD somehow muddled his brains to hold court then send Jesus to Herod who happened to be visiting from Galilee

The dead rose out of the graves and appeared to many. Strange no one thought that was worthy of recording along with the Earthquake no one else recorded
(Pliny the Elder was alive and obsessed with natural phenomenon and did not record it or heard of it)

So the story (stories) is/are saying the others rose from the Dead first, BEFORE JC had even ascended?

Crucifixion was a long drawn out event lasting as permanent record to dissuade other wrong doers a painful long death somehow the Romans just let Jesus be buried ? Yeah f'cking miracle!

The disciples didn't believe Mary initially (why/) . In fact in Luke JC walks along with two of them and they do not recognize him! How so?
Then somehow Thomas who was left out of the loop and does not believe, but when confronted with JC , his leader and devoted his life for for 3 years, he doesn't hug him in utter joy at him being present in front of him , but rather pokes his fingers in wounds? Just a poor writers attempt to try and OVER emphasize a physical return!

The accounts differ, some say the angels present in some gospels , said JC said meet me in Galilee. That is about 80 miles as the crow flies from Jerusalem and they do not make any big deal about being transported there (helicopter or some such) and how they also managed to be in Jerusalem at the same time in other versions?

OF COURSE given all this was posthumously written decades (some John 70 years after) the event then the stories can get confused and muddled and likely exaggerated

However Christians are asked to believe and want others to also believe these rantings are the inspired word of the creator of the Universe?
... and that all persons ought base their lives on such.

YES people will.... because they like the thought of being special and living happily forever. The best con in history.

MIRACLES ALRIGHT! You must become as ignorant as little children. (Matt 18.3)

 

[Evolved1]

If miracles are possible. If satan can plant fossils to fool scientists. If god can raise people from the dead. If three gods can be one.

It raises a lot of questions. No evidence or logic is foolproof. God is playing tricks on us for his own pleasure. Your experience of god could be the devil fooling you. I mean, think about it for a minute...you believe that the good guy, the epitome of love, is going to send billions of people to a lake of fire to be tortured forever.

It's so obvious that god is the bad guy and Jesus is the devil incarnate. Pure evil.

 

[ferball]

rmy impression is that Hinduism is sort of like Abrahamic more than Christian, an overarching term for a very vast collection of beliefs. Bibek Debroy recently completed an unabridged translation of the full Mahabharata. Started reading first volume, it's written (or translated) in quite an engaging way, reads a bit like a high fantasy novel really.

Cheers - I'm gonna check that out.

My old man could read it in Sanskrit. I remember one late night coming home to dad and an uncle visiting from overseas talking about the Mahabhrat and parts of it that possibly described a nuclear war. Whether it was a metaphor that was similar to our view of a nuclear war, a historical account or a prophecy. It was a long time ago and I was a bit wasted but it was an interesting discussion that ended with no clear conclusion. "WHo really knows? We weren't there to see." or wtte.

 

[Corpuscles]

If miracles are possible. If satan can plant fossils to fool scientists. If god can raise people from the dead. If three gods can be one.

It raises a lot of questions. No evidence or logic is foolproof. God is playing tricks on us for his own pleasure. Your experience of god could be the devil fooling you. I mean, think about it for a minute...you believe that the good guy, the epitome of love, is going to send billions of people to a lake of fire to be tortured forever.

It's so obvious that god is the bad guy and Jesus is the devil incarnate. Pure evil.

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

[ferball]

If miracles are possible. If satan can plant fossils to fool scientists. If god can raise people from the dead. If three gods can be one.

It raises a lot of questions. No evidence or logic is foolproof. God is playing tricks on us for his own pleasure. Your experience of god could be the devil fooling you. I mean, think about it for a minute...you believe that the good guy, the epitome of love, is going to send billions of people to a lake of fire to be tortured forever.

It's so obvious that god is the bad guy and Jesus is the devil incarnate. Pure evil.

You're secretly Gnostic?

 

[Vdubs]

I think it hurts your claim to have 'the truth' when you refuse to listen to those who have more knowledge than you on a subject.

I can see where you're coming from to some extent because I feel the same way about Carlton supporters who are smarter than me. Clearly they've been blinded by something evil.

Having more theoretical knowledge is kind of not the point of Christianity. Jesus himself said we have to be like children, to be receptive to his teaching and word. Head knowledge v heart knowledge. I struggled with this stuff so much in my early Christian days. Having a Uni education does that to you. As I have learned to "BE STILL, AND KNOW THAT I AM GOD", (psalm 46:10), I realise on a daily basis that God's timing is not our timing.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Having more theoretical knowledge is kind of not the point of Christianity. Jesus himself said we have to be like children, to be receptive to his teaching and word. Head knowledge v heart knowledge. I sytuggled with this stuff so much in my early Christian days. Having a Uni education does that to you. As I have learnes to '

The downside of this is that getting rid of critical thinking opens you up to not critically analyzing if you are seeing what Jesus said or what Joel Osteen is telling you Jesus said. "What's that? You don't think Jesus would have wanted me to have a million dollar stadium and private jet purely from donations? There you go using that head knowledge instead of heart knowledge you dirty heathen you"

Add to that when you're reading the NIV of the Bible you're reading an interpretation of a translation made thousand years after Jesus died by people with biases and hangups.

 

[Vdubs]

It is better that you just quietly believe than challenge it.

The impossible

That the sun was completely blocked out for 3 hours and no one else on the planet observed or recorded it. Neither do the other 3 gospel story tellers
Passover by definition occurs at the full moon. Anyway Eclipse lasts approx 8 minutes.

Resurrection itself ought not be s big deal if you believe the Bible
Elijah is said to have raised a child from the dead
You have heard of Lazarus? Maybe he was only in a coma but more likely just a story

Jesus has his Passover meal , goes to the Garden to pray (who to?) Peter cuts off a Romans ear with a sword and Jesus glues it back on ( why did Peter have a sword when he told em turn the other cheek) then somehow Pontus Pilate has full court in the evening (likely past midnight)? I guess you mean GOD somehow muddled his brains to hold court then send Jesus to Herod who happened to be visiting from Galilee

The dead rose out of the graves and appeared to many. Strange no one thought that was worthy of recording along with the Earthquake no one else recorded
(Pliny the Elder was alive and obsessed with natural phenomenon and did not record it or heard of it)

So the story (stories) is/are saying the others rose from the Dead first, BEFORE JC had even ascended?

Crucifixion was a long drawn out event lasting as permanent record to dissuade other wrong doers a painful long death somehow the Romans just let Jesus be buried ? Yeah f'cking miracle!

The disciples didn't believe Mary initially (why/) . In fact in Luke JC walks along with two of them and they do not recognize him! How so?
Then somehow Thomas who was left out of the loop and does not believe, but when confronted with JC , his leader and devoted his life for for 3 years, he doesn't hug him in utter joy at him being present in front of him , but rather pokes his fingers in wounds? Just a poor writers attempt to try and OVER emphasize a physical return!

The accounts differ, some say the angels present in some gospels , said JC said meet me in Galilee. That is about 80 miles as the crow flies from Jerusalem and they do not make any big deal about being transported there (helicopter or some such) and how they also managed to be in Jerusalem at the same time in other versions?

OF COURSE given all this was posthumously written decades (some John 70 years after) the event then the stories can get confused and muddled and likely exaggerated

However Christians are asked to believe and want others to also believe these rantings are the inspired word of the creator of the Universe?
... and that all persons ought base their lives on such.

YES people will.... because they like the thought of being special and living happily forever. The best con in history.

MIRACLES ALRIGHT! You must become as ignorant as little children. (Matt 18.3)

Matthew 18:3, NIV: "And he said: 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3, KJV: "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

That verse is actually 100% relevant in these discussions.

 

[Vdubs]

The downside of this is that getting rid of critical thinking opens you up to not critically analyzing if you are seeing what Jesus said or what Joel Osteen is telling you Jesus said. "What's that? You don't think Jesus would have wanted me to have a million dollar stadium and private jet purely from donations? There you go using that head knowledge instead of heart knowledge you dirty heathen you"

Add to that when you're reading the NIV of the Bible you're reading an interpretation of a translation made thousand years after Jesus died by people with biases and hangups.

You replied while I was still editing and correcting... anyway, the point is made.
Questions are still asked, every day. I deal with people and their illnesses daily, and many of these are not dying to get to heaven, and are young parents or even younger, and we ask, WHY HIM OR HER? The mystery of faith and the long journey, if we are granted that, does nothing to take away the reality of God, but in isolated situations, WHY??? does come up.

 

[Evolved1]

Having more theoretical knowledge is kind of not the point of Christianity. Jesus himself said we have to be like children, to be receptive to his teaching and word. Head knowledge v heart knowledge. I struggled with this stuff so much in my early Christian days. Having a Uni education does that to you. As I have learned to "BE STILL, AND KNOW THAT I AM GOD", (psalm 46:10), I realise on a daily basis that God's timing is not our timing.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" Hosea4:6

 

[Corpuscles]

Matthew 18:3, NIV: "And he said: 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3, KJV: "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

That verse is actually 100% relevant in these discussions.

Yeah actually I was delighted when I worked out Santa wasn't real.
I was suspicious but still in a bit of doubt, at about 6yrs of age.
That year no matter how I tried I could not get to sleep.
Well I discovered empirically!

So little children are WAY MORE CAPABLE than brainwashed Christians !
Maybe the children were just more stupid 2000 years ago?

Enjoy your delusion but do not expect anything less than reactionary rebuke, if you try to equally similarly fool others!
But SH!T it is funny!

 

[Evolved1]

You replied while I was still editing and correcting... anyway, the point is made.
Questions are still asked, every day. I deal with people and their illnesses daily, and many of these are not dying to get to heaven, and are young parents or even younger, and we ask, WHY HIM OR HER? The mystery of faith and the long journey, if we are granted that, does nothing to take away the reality of God, but in isolated situations, WHY??? does come up.

Easy. Tell them about the just world hypothesis.

 

[Vdubs]

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" Hosea4:6

of God.
That is so.
I am not saying to not have knowledge of the Bible, in fact, I have read it cover to cover, not the best way to do it, several times, and have also "READ THE BIBLE IN A YEAR" several more times. Moreover, that head knowledge does not guarantee heart knowledge, trust, or faith. Does it?

 

[Evolved1]

Matthew 18:3, NIV: "And he said: 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3, KJV: "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

That verse is actually 100% relevant in these discussions.

Children lack critical thinking skills and emotional maturity. Our brains aren't fully developed until we're approximately 25 years of age. Those verses sound like the sales pitch of a cult that wants to take you to the cleaners.