Australia and Asia

[The Fonz]

Would be interested to know things go re us and Asia as a result of the World Cup. We are the only Asian side to qualify for the second round.

Will that give us power and influence in the off-field poilitics or will they regard us as some upstart who will do as its told?

 

[moomba]

There was an article a week or so back. Generally it looks as if our success is being seen as a positive for Asia (even though we are representing Oceania this tournament), and I think the fact that we are the only AFC team to make it through to the knockout phase has to be looked upon favourably.

In terms of pure logistics, it also means that we will be top seed (I think, if not one of the top seeds) in the next World Cup qualifiers, and will avoid the likes of Japan, South Korea etc.

All good, and I really can't wait to see how we go in the confederation.

 

[m.diddy]

How many spots does the asian league get? 1.5? 2? 2.5?

 

[tribey]

Will that give us power and influence in the off-field poilitics or will they regard us as some upstart who will do as its told?

Following on from what moomba said, we've probably rescued the AFC's world cup allotment for 2010 given our performance.

For the third straight world cup the Saudis have been an embarrassment and Iran weren't much better than their 1998 showing - t'would be easy to justify retaining three spots for Korea, Japan and what they'd hope would be China and its massive market, but Europe, Africa and Oceania would be right to question the 4th place.

Australia alone has justified that 4th spot, regardless of how we perform from hereon-in.

 

[tribey]

How many spots does the asian league get? 1.5? 2? 2.5?

Was 4.5 this time around:

Japan
Korea
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Bahrain lost their world cup playoff with CONCACAF's Trinidad and Tobago.

 

[m.diddy]

Was 4.5 this time around:

Japan
Korea
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Bahrain lost their world cup playoff with CONCACAF's Trinidad and Tobago.

I thought iran and saudi arabia were part of the middle east league?

 

[moomba]

Following on from what moomba said, we've probably rescued the AFC's world cup allotment for 2010 given our performance.

Yep, I think if we hadn't made it through questions definately would have been asked. Likewise I think Ghana has saved Africas allocation, although they have a bit more political clout behind them (and I think their teams that didn't make it through added more tol the competition than the Asian ones that didn't).

 

[moomba]

I thought iran and saudi arabia were part of the middle east league?

Nope, all AFC.

The confederation did get 4.5 spots (as previously mentioned in this thread), personally I think it's a spot too many.

 

[RoosterLad]

AFC has too many, CONCACAF has too many.

Judging by the performances so far, its a disgrace they get so many spots. They should have given Oceania an automatic spot if they let the US in every time and Saudi Arabia make it and get pumped.

Mexico and Australia have been the only teams which have shown something (both have been very good too).

 

[tribey]

They should have given Oceania an automatic spot if they let the US in every time and Saudi Arabia make it and get pumped.

If you've ever had the misfortune of debating this very topic with Americans it's anathema to them.

Their logic is always thus,

"If you can't beat the fourth/fifth/sixth[sic] South American team over two legs you don't deserve to be there."

When you try to explain that such a sudden death scenario over a vastly more match-hardened and experienced team is always an extremely difficult task, they reply with:

"We have to play a long multi-stage format against Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica and Canada, et al... that's a lot harder than just two games."

Never mind that with CONCACAF's three and a half places they could lose 50-0 to Mexico at home and away and still qualify standing on their heads...

 

[moomba]

Having to battle through Asia instead of walking into the finals will be so much better for us in the long run. Meaningful games, having the opportunity to recover from a shocker, getting the team together more often, having the Asia Cup to play instead of the Oceania Cup.

FIFA have done us a big favour forcing us to make a move that should have been made years ago (I realise that it was never as easy as that though).

 

[tribey]

Having to battle through Asia instead of walking into the finals will be so much better for us in the long run. Meaningful games, having the opportunity to recover from a shocker, getting the team together more often, having the Asia Cup to play instead of the Oceania Cup.

Remember 1997?

We finished with a qualifying record of 6 wins, 2 draws, 0 losses and a goal difference of +30-odd - and didn't get to go to France98.

Iran lost something like 4 or 5 times and had three separate chances to qualify.

The Asian group stage;
The second-placed one-off playoff with Japan in neutral Malaysia I think it was;
And finally the home and away playoff with the Oceania champions which they stole on late away goals.

Finally it's even, we hope.

 

[moomba]

Remember 1997?

Sadly I do, as much as I have tried to blank it from my mind.

Makes the last few weeks (and indeed months since qualification) all that much sweeter though.

 

[Stevolution]

If you've ever had the misfortune of debating this very topic with Americans it's anathema to them.

Their logic is always thus,

"If you can't beat the fourth/fifth/sixth[sic] South American team over two legs you don't deserve to be there."

When you try to explain that such a sudden death scenario over a vastly more match-hardened and experienced team is always an extremely difficult task, they reply with:

"We have to play a long multi-stage format against Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica and Canada, et al... that's a lot harder than just two games."

Never mind that with CONCACAF's three and a half places they could lose 50-0 to Mexico at home and away and still qualify standing on their heads...

God, they've got it soooo easy. Costa Rica, Canada and Jamaica together couldn't field a team as tough as Uraguay's. I always thought it was harsh for Australia to have to go up against a team from South America who've got nothing to lose.

 

[Mike_B]

If you've ever had the misfortune of debating this very topic with Americans it's anathema to them.

Their logic is always thus,

"If you can't beat the fourth/fifth/sixth[sic] South American team over two legs you don't deserve to be there."

I'm sure if they had to take the same route to qualify as we had with the sole real competition being a two-leg playoff with a South American country (who they would give a decent contest against, but doubtful they'd qualify), their tune would change very quickly.

But as always, most Americans can't see the world from any other perspective bar their own.

 

[red+black]

Just mucking around with some numbers, I'd go for something like the points table below. I'd probably prefer to do away with the cross-confederation sudden death playoffs.

14.0 UEFA (52 nations)
5.0 CAF (53 nations)
5.0 CONMEBOL (10 nations)
5.0 AFC (46 nations)
3.0 CONCACAF (40 nations)

Not sure what to do with OFC (11 nations). AFC splitting in two sounds reasonable, leaving a WAFC and an EAFC. OFC should not get 1 automatic spot, the confederation is far too weak. AFC would need to be split and OFC could join an east asian zone.

So I'd give EAFC 3 places and WAFC 2 places. That sorts out OFC. First have the OFC nations play in two groups, top nation joins a South East Asian group, leaving EAFC with 22 nations competing at the group stage for 3 spots.

EAFC (join the existing ASEAN Football Federation and East Asian Football Federation): American Samoa, Australia, Brunei, Cambodia, China, Chinese Taipei, Cook Islands, East Timor, Fiji, Indomesia, Japan, Laos, Malaysia, Maldives, Mongolia, Myanmar, New Caledonia, New Zealand, North Korea, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Samoa, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Korea, Tahiti, Thailand, Tonga, Vanuatu, Vietnam (32 nations)

WAFC (join the existing West Asian Football Federation and Central and South Asian Football Federation): Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Nepal, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen (25 nations)

 

[Weaver]

Following on from what moomba said, we've probably rescued the AFC's world cup allotment for 2010 given our performance.

Politics would have saved them. With 207 federations in FIFA, Asia is a powerful block of 46 votes. CONCACAF has 35. Africa has 53. If Europe or South America tried to get an extra place or two those federations would have a strong majority to block them and keep their spots.

That is pretty much how the WC ended up in Japorea and South Africa. Pretty much why Oceania was never going to get a place on its own. Pretty much why the WC was expanded to 32 countries, and pretty much why most of the expansion spots stayed out of European hands.

 

[Weaver]

So I'd give EAFC 3 places and WAFC 2 places.

That would be a bad result for Australia. Japan, Korea, China, Australia would all have legitimate claims to those 3 spots.

Under the current system all 4 can qualify by knocking off the mid-East countries. Only really Iran can match them, with the Saudis and Iraq also handy.