Australia v India - pre series discussion

[jannissary]

Trav has been consistently one of the best Tests batsmen in the world over the last 18 months, won us a WTC final and played some important innings in England and India. What more does he need to do to 'set the world on fire'?!

it’ll also be another case of utilising a batsmen in a role they’re not suited to play

 

[Jim Prideaux]

My ‘evidence’ is more that we don’t have an opener so don’t look for one.
We have a plethora of options for the middle order though.

Head is talented but has not set the world on fire at #5. I’m sure he can do a better job opening and could hardly be worse. He opens in the short form and can hopefully score at a rate Warner used to.
We aren’t really losing anything by putting him up to open but we have plenty to gain looking for a middle order option rather than an opener that does not exist. Plus when Green comes back, you can easily slide him back in.
When Green comes back, what are we to do? Drop an established player?

When Khawaja retires soon enough you have to find 2 non existent openers. The numbers suggest McSweeney won’t have thrived.
I hope he does but the numbers above suggest he won’t.

Your evidence is that a bloke who generally bats later in the middle order (5) is more likely to do better than a first drop? When they play together for SA McSweeney also comes in earlier than Head.

What do we lose? We lose Travis head in a position he’s been great for us and shoehorn a first drop into a position he’s possibly not suited to.

 

[Whiskers]

Trav has been consistently one of the best Tests batsmen in the world over the last 18 months, won us a WTC final and played some important innings in England and India. What more does he need to do to 'set the world on fire'?!

See this is the common misconception. No one knows what they are saying. He did well in the WTC with 163 and 18

Here are his scores since

Ashes
50,16,77,7,39,77,48,1,4,43

Pakistan
40,14,17,0,10

WI
119,0,0

NZ
1,29,21,18

1 ton in 22 hits, 5 scores of 0 or 1.
Average 28.68

 

[Whiskers]

Your evidence is that a bloke who generally bats later in the middle order (5) is more likely to do better than a first drop? When they play together for SA McSweeney also comes in earlier than Head.

What do we lose? We lose Travis head in a position he’s been great for us and shoehorn a first drop into a position he’s possibly not suited to.

Yeah, nah. We need to drop this narrative.
I said average of 28 since the WTC final but even if I include the 163 it goes up to 33.

I don’t consider that great. I don’t know why you do.

 

[Iceman!]

See this is the common misconception. No one knows what they are saying. He did well in the WTC with 163 and 18

Here are his scores since

Ashes
50,16,77,7,39,77,48,1,4,43

Pakistan
40,14,17,0,10

WI
119,0,0

NZ
1,29,21,18

1 ton in 22 hits, 5 scores of 0 or 1.
Average 28.68

One way to look at it, another is that he has averaged 50 and 41 over the past two calendar years. Yes he has had a lean patch but to suggest moving him up we lose nothing is silly.

 

[Whiskers]

One way to look at it, another is that he has averaged 50 and 41 over the past two calendar years. Yes he has had a lean patch but to suggest moving him up we lose nothing is silly.

I don’t know what 50 average that is, short form I assume?

Look at it this way. Who would do better opening? McSweeney or Head?
Based on what we know with averages and the fact Head is just a better player, I assume your answer is Head. He would do better by a fair margin.

Now pick someone to replace Head at number 5. Based on what we’ve seen for a few years I’m pretty confident your choice will go close to matching his output.
We would maybe be a little weaker at 5 without Head but much stronger opening Head rather than McSweeney.

Mind you the last time Head opened a series he averaged 50 vs India.

 

[Iceman!]

I don’t know what 50 average that is, short form I assume?

Look at it this way. Who would do better opening? McSweeney or Head?
Based on what we know with averages and the fact Head is just a better player, I assume your answer is Head. He would do better by a fair margin.

Now pick someone to replace Head at number 5. Based on what we’ve seen for a few years I’m pretty confident your choice will go close to matching his output.
We would maybe be a little weaker at 5 without Hesd but much stronger opening Head rather than McSweeney.

Mind you the last time Head opened a series he averaged 50 vs India.

I disagree with both of those statements.

I am not certain Head will be a better opener and i am certainly not sure we have a better number 5 in the Country. Are we thinking maybe Inglis? i am not totally against the idea but i don't think it is clearly a better option either.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Yeah, nah. We need to drop this narrative.
I said average of 28 since the WTC final but even if I include the 163 it goes up to 33.

I don’t consider that great. I don’t know why you do.

Batting at 5 he is there to up the ante, which will inevitably have a rocks and diamonds pay off.

For 2023 his test match batting average was 41.77 going @75.

For 2022 it was 50.38 going @80.

Those are great numbers for a number 5.

 

[Whiskers]

I disagree with both of those statements.

I am not certain Head will be a better opener and i am certainly not sure we have a better number 5 in the Country. Are we thinking maybe Inglis? i am not totally against the idea but i don't think it is clearly a better option either.

McSweeney has averaged 22 when he has come in early.
These are tests so I suspect he may do worse. I’m not sure how Head couldn’t do much better?

Hopefully it all changes and McSweeney thrives but I can only work with the evidence of numbers.
I’m not against McSweeney being in the team necessarily but I am against him opening.

 

[Cleavy]

Big names could be missing in Perth as IPL goes head-to-head with Test

The latest clash between the cash-rich IPL and international cricket could impact not only Australia’s quest to beat India for the first time in 10 years but also affect the coverage of the series.

www.theage.com.au

can we give Langer a permanent rest from the commentary??

 

[western royboy]

I don’t know what 50 average that is, short form I assume?

Look at it this way. Who would do better opening? McSweeney or Head?
Based on what we know with averages and the fact Head is just a better player, I assume your answer is Head. He would do better by a fair margin.

Now pick someone to replace Head at number 5. Based on what we’ve seen for a few years I’m pretty confident your choice will go close to matching his output.
We would maybe be a little weaker at 5 without Head but much stronger opening Head rather than McSweeney.

Mind you the last time Head opened a series he averaged 50 vs India.

I take it you are aware that batting conditions differ slightly in Australia as opposed to India?

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

When was the last time Marsh even bowled? Marsh keeps saying he is fit to bowl as many overs as Cummins wants him to....sounds like all talk to be honest

Exactly, if he's not bowling he's not in the team as the all rounder, at least with Webster you would get 15-20 overs potentially an innings if required, bloke seems pretty durable not many injuries over the years.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Exactly, if he's not bowling he's not in the team as the all rounder, at least with Webster you would get 15-20 overs potentially an innings if required, bloke seems pretty durable not many injuries over the years.

In fairness, Marsh’s batting has been pretty good, and you could argue he warrants a spot regardless. His ability to bowl solid fast mediums is a huge bonus. The thing is, IMO we need at most one allrounder - Green is it at the moment. Webster needs to get in on bowling alone or batting, not both.

 

[The hands of stone]

McSweeney has averaged 22 when he has come in early.
These are tests so I suspect he may do worse. I’m not sure how Head couldn’t do much better?

Hopefully it all changes and McSweeney thrives but I can only work with the evidence of numbers.
I’m not against McSweeney being in the team necessarily but I am against him opening.

If you were India where would you prefer Head batting ? Opening or 5 .

If he opened I think India would gladly take it.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

In fairness, Marsh’s batting has been pretty good, and you could argue he warrants a spot regardless. His ability to bowl solid fast mediums is a huge bonus. The thing is, IMO we need at most one allrounder - Green is it at the moment. Webster needs to get in on bowling alone or batting, not both.

I don't think there's much difference between Green and Webster right now. Green is the incumbent but he will need to show more consistency when he comes back into the team. On talent and potential he's the preferred choice and has age on his side too. But that doesnt mean a run of poor form particularly with the bat won't leave him vulnerable as there are at least a couple of viable backup options now. Averages 36 and 33 bat and ball which is decent TBF.

 

[Black Diamond]

This article in The Aus gives me a glimmer of hope (for the wrong reasons). Shades of England ahead of 2013-14 requiring their activated almonds and organic kale ahead of the series. A little too precious.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I don't think there's much difference between Green and Webster right now. Green is the incumbent but he will need to show more consistency when he comes back into the team. On talent and potential he's the preferred choice and has age on his side too. But that doesnt mean a run of poor form particularly with the bat won't leave him vulnerable as there are at least a couple of viable backup options now. Averages 36 and 33 bat and ball which is decent TBF.

Greens 1st class average with bat a ball are superior, 8 runs with bat and 2.5 with ball, that’s a decent difference. No one is undroppable in my opinion, but Green would need a decent lean spell

 

[Cleavy]

This article in The Aus gives me a glimmer of hope (for the wrong reasons). Shades of England ahead of 2013-14 requiring their activated almonds and organic kale ahead of the series. A little too precious.

so what exactly are they constructing at the WACA?

 

[Black Diamond]

so what exactly are they constructing at the WACA?

WA Cricket | Home of Cricket in WA

The Western Australian Cricket Association (WA Cricket) is the governing body of cricket in WA, overseeing the development of the game throughout metro, rural and regional areas.

www.wacricket.com.au

There was a proposal at one point, which IIRC was led by Dennis Lillee, to build a hotel on the western boundary of the ground. So I think this would have actually been built on the western hill, with a hotel backing on to the playing area.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Ed Cowan with some great stats on McSweeney.
For all the people who say he comes in early, that maybe true but here are his scores when that happens.


“He has two scores over 50 - 53 and 67 against NSW. Here are his other scores: 22, 32, 10, 0, 12, 48, 36, 15, 20, 25, 11, 0, 7 and 0,” Cowan said on the podcast of the times McSweeney has walked to the crease after an early wicket or two.


The obvious answer to open is still Travis Head!

Last person I’d take any notice of is Cowan

He’s a strange dude.

 

[Rabish Binney]

so what exactly are they constructing at the WACA?

Male toilets with no urinals.

 

[western royboy]

I am hoping Goodwin and Olly Davies kick on this year in the shield

Goodwin is a huge prospect technically very, very sound which is the polar opposite of Davies