The Law Australian Police brutality thread.

[Boston tiger]

You call the police because you want action. You don’t call them to sit outside a room waiting for an old biddy to fall asleep. The police may have suggested such a thing but staff my have been concerned about self harm etc .
The senior officer may have been protecting the other officers who had got too close etc.
We just don’t know.

But police shot someone today. It’s a hell of a job sometimes.

 

[greyhound punter]

In Victoria, aged care staff are allocated 8 minutes per resident to get them out of bed, showered, dressed, ablutions etc.
I don't imagine it would be too different in NSW. They're paid SFA too so they're probably not trained to deal with residents like that.

Whoever said 'close the door' earlier in this thread was probably on the mark. A dementia patient having a panic attack may just need time to settle.

People have to remember that you are essentially 'secluding' a patient when you do that. If you close the door on any patient, and "lock them in a room". Then you are essentially secluding them.

The law around seclusion differs in each state, but it is very strict. If you get it wrong, you will go through the ringer. Generally patients need to be examined by a doctor, who then orders a seclusion. In emergency situations, a nurse can order a seclusion but it has to be reviewed within a short period of time.

But secluding a 95 year old in a treatment/medication room? I can understand why that wouldn't be a viable or safe option.

It remains a tragic case.

For anyone who works in disability, community health, emergency services or acute mental health, it is a sober reminder that situations can go south extremely quickly.

 

[greyhound punter]

You call the police because you want action. You don’t call them to sit outside a room waiting for an old biddy to fall asleep. The police may have suggested such a thing but staff my have been concerned about self harm etc .
The senior officer may have been protecting the other officers who had got too close etc.
We just don’t know.

But police shot someone today. It’s a hell of a job sometimes.

100%. Too often the people casting judgement have never worked on the floor of an acute ward, or the floor of a dementia wing, or even supporting someone with a behavioral disability in their home.

It is a tragic case. Just shocking.

 

[campbell]

Completely agree with what you're saying, but cmon....it's a 95 year old woman!

I hate to see, age has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Those nursing staff called police as they could not deal with her.

 

[FRUMPY]

This would have sufficed, or this:

 

[Puddy]

I'm 91kgs, low body fat, physically strong. Workout regularly. Also been working with dementia patients for over 10 years.

I've been physically overpowered by a 90 year old lady who weighed 40kg.

Ever since the anti restraint brigade got their way (thanks Royal Commission) these situations have been escalating at an alarming rate. Most incidents in aged care get covered up so we can save our own asses (assualts). You would be naive to believe that residents couldn't murder each other.

Restraint, either chemical or physical is literally the only answer here.

 

[Big Papa Ted]

I'm 91kgs, low body fat, physically strong. Workout regularly. Also been working with dementia patients for over 10 years.

I've been physically overpowered by a 90 year old lady who weighed 40kg.

Ever since the anti restraint brigade got their way (thanks Royal Commission) these situations have been escalating at an alarming rate. Most incidents in aged care get covered up so we can save our own asses (assualts). You would be naive to believe that residents couldn't murder each other.

Restraint, either chemical or physical is literally the only answer here.

I say this with complete sincerity. How?

 

[Puddy]

I say this with complete sincerity. How?

In another case, it took 6 police officers to restrain a old lady with dementia to handcuff her.

Dementia patients have almost unnatural strength.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

In another case, it took 6 police officers to restrain a old lady with dementia to handcuff her.

Dementia patients have almost unnatural strength.

In the past I've been involved on a couple of instances of getting a prisoner into a straight jacket for transport to a mental facility.

Neither of them wanted to go, both were wiry builds but no more than 65-70kg. On both occasions it's taken 12 burly prison officers to get the jackets on. There would be up to 8 of us on them at a time with 4 interchange. We would change out regularly and it still took us 30-40 mins to get the jackets on them and we were all stuffed and sweating when we'd finished.

Our biggest issue was positional asphyxiation which made the task more difficult, but safer.

Following up on my earlier post, I think lack of decisiveness from command filters into the front line people who won't make a decision until it's too late and they're forced to, by then they've lost any initiative, panic and make the wrong call.

Poor leadership, poor training, perhaps wrong people.

I'm really keen to see any findings that may be released. If the family go after them you'd imagine everything will come out.

 

[adammania9]

In another case, it took 6 police officers to restrain a old lady with dementia to handcuff her.

Dementia patients have almost unnatural strength.

This can’t be right. Aristotle Pickett said so

 

[Frank Bunn]

I'm 91kgs, low body fat, physically strong. Workout regularly. Also been working with dementia patients for over 10 years.

I've been physically overpowered by a 90 year old lady who weighed 40kg.

The old lady was walking slowly using a frame. She wasn't overpowering anyone.

How about the police commissioner have a look at the body cam footage so she can add her expert opinion?

 

[Big Papa Ted]

In another case, it took 6 police officers to restrain a old lady with dementia to handcuff her.

Dementia patients have almost unnatural strength.

Fair enough. It's hard for me to imagine but I gotta go with first hand experience.

 

[Puddy]

The old lady was walking slowly using a frame. She wasn't overpowering anyone.

How about the police commissioner have a look at the body cam footage so she can add her expert opinion?

The old lady in my situation was walking slowly as well. Until she swiftly grabbed my pen from my pocket and tried to stab me in the throat with it

 

[Chief]

In another case, it took 6 police officers to restrain a old lady with dementia to handcuff her.

Dementia patients have almost unnatural strength.

This is a line that comes up often when the police want to make out their victim was much more dangerous than they actually were.

It takes a lot of people to overcome any struggling person without hurting them.

It's not like an old lady is kung fu fighting six people trying to attack her and take her handbag.

 

[campbell]

The old lady in my situation was walking slowly as well. Until she swiftly grabbed my pen from my pocket and tried to stab me in the throat with it

I got a torn rotator cuff from trying administer medication to a dementia patient, many years ago.
Strong as an ox, I didnt see the snap change in behavour coming.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The old lady in my situation was walking slowly as well. Until she swiftly grabbed my pen from my pocket and tried to stab me in the throat with it

I don't think we should view every 95 old 43kg lady who needs a frame to walk slowly across a room as a former Ninja assassin. But no one is really questioning the care home workers' actions. It's a difficult job with poor rewards. But the police need to explain their actions.

 

[Kurve]

The old lady was walking slowly using a frame. She wasn't overpowering anyone.

How about the police commissioner have a look at the body cam footage so she can add her expert opinion?

Yeah I agree, she wasn't overpowering anybody especially not a Senior Constable with 12 years experience behind him.

The Commissioner tried to explain her position of not viewing the bodycam footage. Essentially, she'd be viewing evidence without full context the completed investigative report that she may need to make an unbias determination on in the future.

Police chief says watching taser bodycam will taint inquiry

NSW Police Commissioner Karen Webb says viewing footage of an elderly woman being Tasered could affect her impartiality and taint the investigation.

thenewdaily.com.au

Interview with Ben Fordham.

UNDER FIRE - Ben grills top cop over 95-year-old TASER victim

Karen Webb is front and centre after the horrendous events at Yallambee Lodge. The NSW Police Commissioner cut a forlorn figure following last week’s horrific tasering of a 95 year-old woman. Clare Nowland, barely 45 kilograms, was struck down by a police officer’s taser after she was caught...

www.2gb.com

 

[Puddy]

I don't think we should view every 95 old 43kg lady who needs a frame to walk slowly across a room as a former Ninja assassin. But no one is really questioning the care home workers' actions. It's a difficult job with poor rewards. But the police need to explain their actions.

In a hospital setting this patient would be restrained to keep everyone safe. Why is it different in Aged Care?

This would not have occurred if we were restraining residents.

 

[FRUMPY]

In a hospital setting this patient would be restrained to keep everyone safe. Why is it different in Aged Care?

This would not have occurred if we were restraining residents.

Residents family probably complain - most things come down to people complaining.

'why is my dear old mother restrained?
'she tried to stab someone'
'thats rubbish, my mum wouldnt do such a thing, im going to complain to management and make a big fuss'

 

[Rob R]

In a hospital setting this patient would be restrained to keep everyone safe. Why is it different in Aged Care?

This would not have occurred if we were restraining residents.

Hospital - restrained short term for treatment. Nursing home - restrained forever?

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gough]

Senior ACT police officer was ‘immediately suspicious’ of Brittany Higgins’s rape allegation, inquiry told

Det Supt Scott Moller says he did not understand why Higgins wanted to ‘involve the media’ before giving formal statement to police

www.theguardian.com

There's serious consequences for making false complaints so I'm not sure why a policeman should view any accusation of rape with suspicion and maybe investigating these sorts of crime might not be the branch of policing for him.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Senior ACT police officer was ‘immediately suspicious’ of Brittany Higgins’s rape allegation, inquiry told

Det Supt Scott Moller says he did not understand why Higgins wanted to ‘involve the media’ before giving formal statement to police

www.theguardian.com

There's serious consequences for making false complaints so I'm not sure why a policeman should view any accusation of rape with suspicion

That's a silly argument. It's like saying there are serious consequences for rape (or any crime) so why would the police not believe someone who is accused?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Look I can't see reason to taser in this instance.

A 95yo on a walking frame.

Anyone more mobile fair enough, but a 95yo on a walking frame? Doesn’t pass the pub test.

I suspect we've got two officers who've followed a rigid one size fits all procedure that doesn't merit the scenario. Dumb!

And to those taking the opportunity to go the disgusting ACAB narrative, gagf with your narrow mind.

And to those who are trying to justify this police action as 'Anyone with weapon dangerous ' , well that's just stupid.

 

[Chief]

Senior ACT police officer was ‘immediately suspicious’ of Brittany Higgins’s rape allegation, inquiry told

Det Supt Scott Moller says he did not understand why Higgins wanted to ‘involve the media’ before giving formal statement to police

www.theguardian.com

There's serious consequences for making false complaints so I'm not sure why a policeman should view any accusation of rape with suspicion and maybe investigating these sorts of crime might not be the branch of policing for him.

She probably knew what her employer was like so she was not going into this without alerting everyone far and wide.

 

[cartwright]

Officer has now been charged

Clare Nowland dies in hospital after police officer charged with Tasering her

Great-grandmother Clare Nowland, 95, was surrounded by family when she died on Wednesday.

www.theage.com.au

I wonder what this means?

The commissioner said she had not seen the footage recorded on White’s body-worn video camera. But she had heard comments, allegedly uttered on the video, which are understood to be central to the investigation.

“I’ve heard what’s in that footage, and it’s for a court to decide ... I am concerned about what that will reveal and that will be borne out in court as any other court matter,” Webb said.