Why is abortion a live issue in Australian politics again?

[Seeds]

I think if you polled most people, they would say abortion isn't really a political issue and should be the mothers choice and they should have access to be able to do it.

Where people differ would be on the age limit where abortions are allowed to happen. 3mths/6,mths/9mths etc
Again its really the mothers choice of when it happens but people would have an idea on when best.

Mental health wise, there probably needs to be services available to potential mothers and fathers pre and post abortion.
It generally is a thing people are reluctant to talk about.

I have a mate who convinced his girl friend at the time to have an abortion as they were young and he felt too immature for a child. They broke up partly because of it (she wanted to have it) and he sometimes regrets it, like mentions how old they would have been.

Have also been in situation where ectopic pregnancy meant had to be aborted. Thats different. But leads to different potential outcomes if could have survived re future kids etc.

But what hit home to me was hearing someone talking about a chat he had with his dad, where he told his dad of the abortions they had had etc, he was similar young and wasn't ready. And his dad said why are you killing my grand children. He since had 4 kids, but does think about the ones that were aborted too.

Where do people believe life begins. for me it doesn't feel that real until they are born. But imagine it could be different for everyone.

And there was also that netflix documentary about that aus water polo player Kelli lane.

Um when life begin isnt up to you or people to decide based on how they feel. Your feels have no say in the matter. Its based on biology.

Consciousness begins in the womb. But it doesnt just suddenly appear with a bang. There is no distinct point in time when life is life. Even after babies are born there is much development still to happen.

 

[Todman]

Late term abortions of healthy babies/fetuses do happen. They are the exception rather than the rule. But to me it doesn’t seem like a fringe or extreme view that it shouldn’t be happening.

What surprises me is how a woman can go from "I'm having a Baby" carrying for 30+ weeks to "Get this parasite out of me and kill it." There has to be mental issues involved.

 

[ElectricG]

What surprises me is how a woman can go from "I'm having a Baby" carrying for 30+ weeks to "Get this parasite out of me and kill it." There has to be mental issues involved.

Or extreme carelessness and procrastination.

An uncommon thing I’m sure.

 

[faible]

What surprises me is how a woman can go from "I'm having a Baby" carrying for 30+ weeks to "Get this parasite out of me and kill it." There has to be mental issues involved.

Later term abortions aren't just a 'suddenly changed their mind' thing. Often they'd be health / complication related.

The idea that it's some kind of lifestyle choice or suddenly change of mind is a furphy.

For example, in Victoria:

Abortion after 24 weeks

[html different_values="0" format="ckeditor"]This fact sheet sets out questions and answers relating to abortion after 24 weeks in Victoria.[/html]

whv.org.au

Key messages:

• Under the current law, abortions after 24 weeks require the agreement of two doctors, taking into account the woman’s medical, physical, psychological and social circumstances.
• Abortions at this stage of pregnancy are very rare, but there will always be a small but very real need for these services, and the current law acknowledges this.
• The circumstances surrounding abortion after 24 weeks are very complex and it is difficult to speculate on each woman’s individual circumstances.
• Reasons for seeking abortions at this stage often involve factors like intimate partner violence, failure to recognise a pregnancy, and congenital abnormality.

 

[schneebly111]

What surprises me is how a woman can go from "I'm having a Baby" carrying for 30+ weeks to "Get this parasite out of me and kill it." There has to be mental issues involved.

Late term terminations basically only happen if a risk to the mother’s health or a severe foetal abnormality is discovered in the third (last) trimester. They comprise less than 1% of all terminations.

No woman carries a pregnancy for 30 weeks then suddenly decides to terminate it for “convenience”. Anti abortion groups try to spread rubbish than women can just choose to “get rid of a baby” right before birth and campaign to have it made illegal as the start of a slippery slope with the intent for all abortions to be banned.

Think I’m joking? I think the US state of Idaho is considering banning abortions even in the case of rape.

 

[ElectricG]

No woman carries a pregnancy for 30 weeks then suddenly decides to terminate it for “convenience”.

I guess not allowing that kind of abortion to take place would be a no brainer if it affects precisely zero people.

 

[liz]

Think I’m joking? I think the US state of Idaho is considering banning abortions even in the case of rape.

They won’t be the first. Several states already have a “no exceptions” law in place I believe, at least for surgical abortions. Medical abortions (ie early term, via medication) are harder for them to control but they’re trying their damnedest to do so.

 

[peetoo]

Late term terminations basically only happen if a risk to the mother’s health or a severe foetal abnormality is discovered in the third (last) trimester. They comprise less than 1% of all terminations.

No woman carries a pregnancy for 30 weeks then suddenly decides to terminate it for “convenience”. Anti abortion groups try to spread rubbish than women can just choose to “get rid of a baby” right before birth and campaign to have it made illegal as the start of a slippery slope with the intent for all abortions to be banned.

Think I’m joking? I think the US state of Idaho is considering banning abortions even in the case of rape.

One can only wonder what the mental anguish a woman goes through faced with that decision it must be horrific

 

[samFFC]

I think its largely conservatives here jizzing over whats happening in the US and hoping they can get their agenda going here.

Yup
It’s a non starter here, if it is just stamped out. Don’t entertain horseshit arguments.
Ask them what they think, scratch a little, and you end up with the usual “life at conception” point and then the “we want to control women”.

 

[samFFC]

Late term abortions of healthy babies/fetuses do happen. They are the exception rather than the rule. But to me it doesn’t seem like a fringe or extreme view that it shouldn’t be happening.

It is a fringe view when you actually drill into it.
Ask people if they think patients in those situations should have access to abortion, as outlined by others above, and people are generally very sensible and agree with legality.

I guess not allowing that kind of abortion to take place would be a no brainer if it affects precisely zero people.

Allowing what kind of abortion?

 

[ElectricG]

Allowing what kind of abortion?

Late term abortion of a healthy fetus/non-problematic pregnancy.

 

[liz]

Late term abortion of a healthy fetus/non-problematic pregnancy.

And does that actually happen?

Two doctors would be required to sign off on it and, to do so, they would have to determine there is something problematic about the pregnancy.

 

[ElectricG]

And does that actually happen?

Two doctors would be required to sign off on it and, to do so, they would have to determine there is something problematic about the pregnancy.

wtf is this view that something should be legal because it “doesn’t happen”? Of course it would happen, on occasion, if it were allowed to.

Your second paragraph seems like the sensible order of things.

 

[liz]

wtf is this view that something should be legal because it “doesn’t happen”? Of course it would happen, on occasion, if it were allowed to.

Your second paragraph seems like the sensible order of things.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that a 30 week pregnant woman should be able to wake up one morning on a whim and decide to abort the pregnancy. My best understanding of the system is that it isn’t legal (in Australia).

I’m not sure why you’re expending so much energy arguing it shouldn’t be legal.

 

[ElectricG]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that a 30 week pregnant woman should be able to wake up one morning on a whim and decide to abort the pregnancy. My best understanding of the system is that it isn’t legal (in Australia).

I’m not sure why you’re expending so much energy arguing it shouldn’t be legal.

Well since I’m breaking my back with posting a couple of sentences every three days or so I will tone it down.

Well there ya go. You agree that late term abortions without a good reason shouldn’t be legal. I wonder what the deal is with the claim that it would simply never happen?

 

[samFFC]

Late term abortion of a healthy fetus/non-problematic pregnancy.

Give some evidence not just thought bubbles.

 

[ElectricG]

Give some evidence not just thought bubbles.

What?

 

[Gralin]

What?

you're being asked to provided evidence to back up your position that women are choosing to abort healthy fetuses late pregnancy because they changed their mind and those procedures are happening

 

[ElectricG]

you're being asked to provided evidence to back up your position that women are choosing to abort healthy fetuses late pregnancy because they changed their mind and those procedures are happening

My claim was that late term abortions of healthy fetuses do occur, not specifically that late term “change of mind” abortions are taking place. As far as I know those are not allowed. But it follows that they would happen on occasion if they were allowed.

 

[Gralin]

My claim was that late term abortions of healthy fetuses do occur, not specifically that late term “change of mind” abortions are taking place. As far as I know those are not allowed. But it follows that they would happen on occasion if they were allowed.

lets focus on what actually happens

your claim

My claim was that late term abortions of healthy fetuses do occur,

so now I would like you to back this claim up with evidence, for Australia

 

[ElectricG]

lets focus on what actually happens

your claim

My claim was that late term abortions of healthy fetuses do occur,

so now I would like you to back this claim up with evidence, for Australia

Tayla-Jane needed a late-term abortion. She does not agree with proposed changes to SA's abortion laws - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

Here is a story of one happening due to not knowing about the pregnancy until later in the piece.

 

[Gralin]

Tayla-Jane needed a late-term abortion. She does not agree with proposed changes to SA's abortion laws - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

Here is a story of one happening due to not knowing about the pregnancy until later in the piece.

so law exists that requires medical professionals to determine best course of action

they do

you don't agree with it

want law changed

that about it?

you don't care about the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman just the viability of the fetus?

 

[Cmarsh]

Tayla-Jane needed a late-term abortion. She does not agree with proposed changes to SA's abortion laws - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

Here is a story of one happening due to not knowing about the pregnancy until later in the piece.

Reading that, In that case the decision of the doctor's to terminate wasn't about the baby's physical viability or the Mother's life being at risk. The decision to terminate was for neither of those reasons.

 

[ElectricG]

so law exists that requires medical professionals to determine best course of action

they do

you don't agree with it

want law changed

that about it?

you don't care about the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman just the viability of the fetus?

Why you gotta be like this Gralin

 

[Gralin]

Why you gotta be like this Gralin

You're complaining about a law that requires two doctors to agre
So you're saying you know better than doctors yeah?