Review Autopsy Thread - Hawks vs Saints

[Hawker_Ant]

Couch, everything you say is quite right.

Umpiring moments continue to piss me off. I simply have no time for 50m penalties that continue to be chucked out for trivial crap. It's far too harsh, I'll keep calling for 25m penalties like in SANFL. Far more sensible. Ego's/control freaks in AFL can't deal with sensibiliity.

 

[Hawker_Ant]

But... I'll argue that Junior's game-winning goal should not have been taken away in the first place. And that he knew the whistle was being blown to take it awy from him.

 

[spudmaster]

If you had asked me at the start of the game if I would have been happy with 2 points then i might have given it some thought in all honesty. But I'm filthy on the way the match finished up today.

While arguably a fitting result given the quarter time, half time, and three quarter time margins, we had our chances in that final quarter.

I don't for a second like the way Rioli had his goal canceled, but with 2-3 minutes left on the clock, the boys still had the lead and knew what needed to be done but were unable to do so. That final goal to McEvoy was hideously poor play from our backline, letting an opponent get goalside without someone on him.

On a more possitive note, we have shown we can match it with the Saints and Cats and Doggies, and I look forward to seeing how we perform against the Pies and Freo in the coming weeks, as well as Port and Sydney on their home turf (which were close games on our turf)

Umpiring:
- not going to get into a shitfight about who got what, but on the whole, far too over officiated
- and please, if they're going to award a free kick, at least make it look like you know what you're paying a free for by signaling to the correct end, that was genuinely embarrassing tonight the number of times that happened

Surface:
- what needs to be said? An absolute joke of a ground. The number of players from both sides that kept falling over was amazing. Truth be told i was at the game so didn't actually hear Tom Harley talking but the folks said Harley really got stuck into the ground issue and said it simply wasn't up to standard. The chances of the afl/etihad doing something is close to nil, they're so stubborn it's not funny. But i was pleased someone other than Kennett commented on it as i feel the afl probably has the stance of "that's just Jeff being Jeff" whenever he brings up a legitimate issue now.

Thank goodness we don't have to play at that dump too often!

 

[Roby]

Sorry to spoil the pessimistic parade, but more than any other team this season Hawthorn has shown to be by far the 'best performing team' in close games.

So you going to sit there and crticise Hawthorn for a few errors here and there and forget all the times they have done exceptionally well, under-pressure in close games?

Regarding the missed shots. Right now the team that sits on top of the ladder is the worst at it. But Collingwood has managed to improve that steadily. No coincidence it's helped them to improve up the ladder. If anything one should be optimistic that were getting enough shots to always be there with a chance. We won the clearances last night, which now makes it now 2 weeks in a row. Players like Burgoyne, Young and Sewell are improving which is why were beating opposition midfields.

St Kilda kicked 14.3. There not going accurately kick like that again. We kept them and Brisbane to 25 shots in 2 games. Meaning our defence is also become a strength. Surely will turn up one day play a top 4 team, the shots will go more accurate and blow them off the park?

It appeared that most are playing their roles as the coach asks of them. We playing and gelling well as a team. I can only see Hawthorn's continual improvement with other sides having headaches on how to play us. St Kilda pretty much played defensively behind the ball. They were never going to blow us away but not the same could be said for the Hawks.

The only thing that was disappointing was out tackling and pressure in the first half was not up to standard and only improved marginally in the second half. Apart from that we can't ask anything more considering we played at their home ground, in Riewoldt's come back game. It didn't appear like St Kilda were missing any players? Who Baker? Well we still got Hooper to come back and I can tell you he will be far more influential player for us than Baker.

 

[spudmaster]

A quote from Mark Conway's article on the afl site:

"After losing seven of its first eight matches, Hawthorn have now won eight, and drawn one, of their past 10 matches, including impressive performances against premiership fancies Collingwood, Geelong, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda."

Collingwood? Did he mean Carlton? Although they are hardly premiership fancies...

Perhaps anything to make the story sound more entertaining?
Either that, or he has his crystal ball out early and we can all look forward to round22

 

[cuttlefish]

I must say, despite us letting Saints have two points from last nights game, I'm really enjoying seeing how consistently hard at the ball we're playing. If you were to list all of the Hawks players who made good hard goes at getting to the loose ball first, it would be a long list. lol at Campbell Brown at one point missing the ball but flying through the contest horizontal like some sort of human battering ram. Ellis really doesn't shirk a contest either. Lot's to like about so many of our players. Sewell looked really composed at times, and Rioli isn't shirking hard contests either.
I think maybe we need to find some speed into our forward line, and try to get the ball to our forwards on a long lead, rather than to a contest ( not that I don't love Roughies one handed marks)..there's got to be some way to create more space in our forward 50...

 

[JustKickIt]

Put the right-angle kick at goal away. With a conventional kick Ozzie at least would get a point which, as it turns out, may have made all the difference.

 

[hawkhanlumist]

1. Luke Hodge was BOG by a mile. He was instrumental in nearly everything that was good for Hawthorn. Performances like that will start to avail him with the umps.

2. We are a top four side, in terms of skill, personnel and confidence at the moment.

3. We had the saints by the pills at various stages, and partly to their credit, we didn't put them away. Like with Geelong, we dominated the last term, but didn't win. I have a feeling that as we play top four sides in close games, our composure will improve, which should help us resolve this.

4. I think that if you look at our last month of footy, we have had significantly more scoring opportunities than our opponents. My memory only goes as far back as the dons game, but in all of those games, had we kicked straight, it would have been curtains.

5. Jeff Gieschen is a C*&t and if I met him in the street, i would give him an earful. Some of those 50m penalties were a disgrace to our game. The umps i thought were average. The 50m interchange rule is a joke, although the umps can't be pinned for that, because they are just using the rules given to them by the AFL

5. Did I mention what a bloody ripper of a game L Hodge played. DT only gave him 102 points, whereas hayes had 130+. BUt he did EVERYTHING. he was creative inside, he won clearances, he chased, he tackled, he crashed packs. he set up play. I bloody love watching him don the B&G No15 when he plays like that.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Really disappointed with that last McEvoy goal. But here are my thoughts on the game:

Mitchell, Burger, Cyril, Hodge, Sewell and Bateman. That's a midfield that can compete with any midfield in the league.

In all the criticism of Roughy's goalkicking and how it's all between the ears - nobody has mentioned his clutch goal in the last quarter! Riewoldt choked but our big rough man kicked true when it counted. Awesome.

Umpiring was just ridiculous for both sides. The most over-officiated, over-penalised rubbish I've ever seen. We may have even got the better of this but overall it was really really poor.

I have a real hatred of Milne.

We took Riewoldt out of the game when he threatened to tear the game apart. Awesome defence - great stuff from Gibbo as well.

What the hell happened to give them the first 3 goals? Our backline was nowhere? Very strange.

Ozzie's mark was a highlight. The following kick was awful.

Burgoyne should be the designated kicker for inside 50s. So slick, so accurate.

The surface is shocking. Hard and slippery - is there a worse combination? When Young slipped and mongreled that kick I thought he'd done his ankle again.

I'm starting to wonder about our game plan. It's returned 8 wins from ten games but they've been so close that many could have gone either way.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

After watching what i would say was the best game so far this, i must say i was absolutley disgusted with the state of the ground. I lost count of the number of times i saw players from both sides slip over while going for the ball. As far as im concerned the grounds surface spoilt a really great game tonight. Does anyone else agree with me on this ???

The ground was a shocker...I have NEVER seen players slip over so many times, yet Collins will still defend the surface!! Nothing wrong with it..Collins, you are a TWAT!!!
I, like so many others on here feel absolutely gutted!!. I can't remember feeling so numb. It's really an empty feeling. Proud of the boys, but like I have said so many times before, our kicking for goal lost the game again!!..Just like it did against the cats. Yes, the interchange cost us dearly, BUT, had we kicked STRAIGHT, in just a couple of those behinds, that rule would not have hurt us. I just wish Roughie would change his goal kicking..He works so hard, and I love him in our club, BUT, please, please, Roughie, you have to learn to conquer those nerves...

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I just wish Roughie would change his goal kicking..He works so hard, and I love him in our club, BUT, please, please, Roughie, you have to learn to conquer those nerves...

Seriously. Two hours in a session with Peter Hudson and Jason Dunstall, and he would increase his accuracy up to 50%. Even I could coach some of these players how to kick for goal better, so I am just astounded that nothing appears to be getting done to improve it.

Mind you, kicking set shots with the surface beneath shifting around wouldn't be easy.

 

[Jaeger]

Seriously. Two hours in a session with Peter Hudson and Jason Dunstall, and he would increase his accuracy up to 50%. Even I could coach some of these players how to kick for goal better, so I am just astounded that nothing appears to be getting done to improve it.

They're working on it. Has to be above the shoulders.

 

[dermott]

Unfortunately, I was unable to watch the game last night, but it appears our wayward kicking for goal cost us dearly again. Against top four sides we cannot afford that luxury which has possibly cost us a spot in the four. However, apart from that I can't complain much about our current form and I suspect we can improve our goal kicking over the next 5 weeks.

 

[go hawks!!!]

An important stat that i saw this morning and what ross lyon just alluded to on cruch time is that the hawks have averaged 82 tackles a match. Last night we had 52 tackles.

That is a (-30) difference. Lyon just said that hawks could not tackle the saints after qtr time, this is a dissapointing stat and one we need to focus on for next week.

My change for next week is Whitecross out. I am a fan of his however, he has not taken his opportunity.

In next week Hooper, who will provide much needed forward pressure which is lacking.

The next change after hooper is ladson.

 

[Paul Kersey]

What was noticable was how much cleaner St Kilda was when they got the ball. They always had men in space, men beating us on the lead, their disposal at this time was generally spot on. On the contrast, we seem to just kick to contest after contest and back ourself to win it. Never seemed to be anytime when there was a free Hawthorn player.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

This was just posted on twitter by our club...


"those who missed on radio, video evidence of interchange incident was inconclusive. The Club will take no further action at this stage."

 

[skipjack]

After being initially very disappointed I've decided that I'm pretty happy with 10 points from the last four games.

In reality we beat some ordinary sides at the beginning of our winning run and there was doubt about how we would come through the past month against some "real" opposition.

Last nights game was further proof that we will not be in the finals just to make up the numbers. We will play a big part.

 

[Jaeger]

Young has taken his game to a new level.

 

[Hodge2NormSmith]

After being initially very disappointed I've decided that I'm pretty happy with 10 points from the last four games.

I agree to a point, still hurts when we could have had 4/4 and 16 pts.

Just out of interest who won the respective BOG medals for us and St.Kilda?

Was it Hodgey and Hayes?

Hodge must be a shot for another 3 votes or at least 2, I hope so, I've got $50 on him for the Brownlow at $51's

He had by far the most points from Champion data 149 to 125 as next best.
Thought both Roughie and Burger have been on the up in a big way in the last 2-3 weeks - If Roughie starts kicking straight look out as his contested marking is back!!!

 

[Link_Wray]

An important stat that i saw this morning and what ross lyon just alluded to on cruch time is that the hawks have averaged 82 tackles a match. Last night we had 52 tackles.

That is a (-30) difference. Lyon just said that hawks could not tackle the saints after qtr time, this is a dissapointing stat and one we need to focus on for next week.

Some truth in this, but we were also consistently getting more contested possession, so its more of a reflection of us being first to the ball.

 

[Hrvat Hawks]

the good thing to take out of all of this is i believe we are playing at 75%. And we lost to geelong by 2 pts(easily could have won that game) and drew with the saints. Once our kicking gets better we are up there with the best if we arent already

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

gutted that we managed to throw it away (similar to Geelong) but I take solace from the fact I now know we can beat anyone in the competition.

Put us on the bigger MCG and we would have wiped the floor with the Saints today.

Never agree with the philosophy that because you get close to a team, it means you can beat them.

Since 2008, we've struggled to beat Geelong and the Saints.

 

[Hawk Dork]

2009 and early 2010 weren't flash times to play most teams so I wouldn't consider them an indication of where we sit in comparison.

I think we have the Cats and the Saints measure

 

[burner1]

Few comments on players:
-Roughie - heres hoping that pressure goal near the end has boosted his confidence as his missing easy goals is stopping us putting away teams early. Looked very dangerous for most of the game. Umpire seemed to be telling him a few times to stop wingeing / faking marking infringements - was hard to tell on tv but rarely appeared to get a clear run at the ball (i.e. reiwoldt always seemed to get a run at it but roughie seems to struggle - im not sure if this is good defending or infringements by saints or poor defence by us)

-Lewis - thought was terrible as a defensive fwd - continually got beaten in contests by fisher and didnt appear to apply a lot of pressure

-Gilham - was really worried at the start - looked like kossie was going to go a hold of him like tippett did, but fought back well. I still have concerns about him against the quality opponents - does well on the rebound but is a liability IMO against a tallm quality opponent

-Gibson - fought well against a bigger and taller opponent. His work when the ball hits the ground is first class.

-Skipper - not up to it against quality ruck opponents. Looks like a pinch hitter (which is what he is)

-Hodge, sewell great games. Has good to see sewell break away/through packs again

-Burgoyne, rioli, mitch - drifted in and out but still played well

-Ellis - kicking still letting him down - kick through the ball son!

-Stratton - gun

-WX did some good things but occasionly doesnt run hard enough defensively (seems to coast) - im not sure if this lack of experience but a few times if he had run hard he could have layed a tackle / stopped a goal. Missed snap with costly.

-Brown - throws himself in like aways but seems to be lacking something. His lack of agility to play on the small opponents is a worry and hes generally ineffective up forward. Kicking still rubbish.

-Murphy - continues to surprise me with solid games. Great mark near the end. However appears to continually lose his opponent in traffic - cost us an important goal to ablett v geelong and again to milne in the last quarter which is a concern

-Buddy - good to see him get a few free kicks. Stepped up when required. Some of the 50m were BS.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sorry to spoil the pessimistic parade, but more than any other team this season Hawthorn has shown to be by far the 'best performing team' in close games.

So you going to sit there and crticise Hawthorn for a few errors here and there and forget all the times they have done exceptionally well, under-pressure in close games?

Regarding the missed shots. Right now the team that sits on top of the ladder is the worst at it. But Collingwood has managed to improve that steadily. No coincidence it's helped them to improve up the ladder. If anything one should be optimistic that were getting enough shots to always be there with a chance. We won the clearances last night, which now makes it now 2 weeks in a row. Players like Burgoyne, Young and Sewell are improving which is why were beating opposition midfields.

St Kilda kicked 14.3. There not going accurately kick like that again. We kept them and Brisbane to 25 shots in 2 games. Meaning our defence is also become a strength. Surely will turn up one day play a top 4 team, the shots will go more accurate and blow them off the park?

It appeared that most are playing their roles as the coach asks of them. We playing and gelling well as a team. I can only see Hawthorn's continual improvement with other sides having headaches on how to play us. St Kilda pretty much played defensively behind the ball. They were never going to blow us away but not the same could be said for the Hawks.

The only thing that was disappointing was out tackling and pressure in the first half was not up to standard and only improved marginally in the second half. Apart from that we can't ask anything more considering we played at their home ground, in Riewoldt's come back game. It didn't appear like St Kilda were missing any players? Who Baker? Well we still got Hooper to come back and I can tell you he will be far more influential player for us than Baker.

Spot on, Roby.

I really like the way we are going about it at the moment, and I just feel that with Clarkson on the bench it's giving us that extra level of 'team'.
There's just something about being able to look into your players eyes as he comes off the ground and say 'good job mate, rest up, you'll be back out there in a few'.

I left the ground bewildered at the interchange ruling, forgetting the McEvoy goal, because simply, football is a game of decisions and errors and McEvoy goaled as a consequence of one. That's fine, I can live with that just as I can live with the missed shots on goals.

The endeavour was there, we should've won.
I'm pretty happy with the way in which our group is gelling and playing together at the moment.

And I agree with your comments on Hooper. IMO, he plays, we win.