Beau Dowler - Will he stay or will he go ?

[Brant]

Morton pretty safe.

Good.

Musto as safe??

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

The coaches don't like him, surely gone.

 

[sahawka]

Dowler gone finished season in VFL ressies what does that tell you...
Muston I hope we keep could fill the C.Brown role...
Morton is a hack, worst player on list (even worst than S.Taylor & T.Murphy form from 2009!)

 

[Franko Armani]

I hear that Morton will be retained.

that is ugly news. I had a lot of time for him earlier this year but he failed to deliver once again when he was given plenty of chances. Has the size, skill & athleticism but is afraid of the contest. This was reinforced to me while watching him at Box Hill. Shirks the contest time & time again.

Muston should be retained ahead of Morton. Get rid of him Hawks, doesn't deserve another chance I'm afraid.

 

[grizzlym]

Morton was moved down back and had a brilliant four weeks. Looked a totally different player. Got concussed in the last game (or was it the week before?).

He looks at home down back, which is where some believe his true position lies.

 

[Franko Armani]

Don't believe it Grizz. Didn't like what I saw in the prelim at all. Maybe he did have a few good games earlier, but I just don't see him making a proper effort to contest.

I'm not a huge follower of the reserves though, just that whenever I do catch a bit, the same old players seem to be doing the same old average things!

 

[BYWs Dimi Pumpa]

Has already been told he will not be at Hawthorn next year.

Will be traded or he will be nominating for the draft and trying his luck with Thorp.

Muston and Morton will be following.

********************************************************

What has been wasted if the above comments are true:

- 2005 1st round selection - pick #6 - Beau Dowler
- 2005 2nd round selection - pick #22 - Beau Muston
- 2006 1st round selection - Pick #6 - Mitch Thorpe
- 2006 2nd round selection - Pick # 33 - Jarryd Morton

What we could have had

- 2005: pick 6 - 33: Patty Ryder, Mitch Clarke, Shannon Hurn, Travis Varcoe, Richard Douglas, Paul Bower, Garrick Ibbotson, Bernie Vince, Sam Gilbert

- 2006: pick 6 - 37: Joel Selwood, Ben Reid, Nathan Brown, James Frawley, Jack Riewoldt, Mitch Brown, Shaun Hampson, Leroy Jetta, Kurt Tippet, Goldstein.

I know the draft is a gamble but have we wasted four picks that could have provided us with some awesome players.

Imagine our 2005 picks (#6) was used on say Mitch Clarke and pick 22 was used on Sam Gilbert

Imagine our 2006 picks were used on Selwood and Frawley.

We would have a ripping list..... What could have been!!

 

[TAITA]

^^^^No, it's a load of shit.

If you are such a recruitment guru go and work out who we need to draft this year and I will give you the benefit of 4 years to see whether you are any good with the picks we have.

I'm sorry, but your post is utter bullshit - if GC had the benefits of all their draft picks those years I can guarantee you they would not have got it right.

 

[IBleedBrownNGold]

I'm getting really tired of all this recruitment bagging. I haven't commented on it up until now because, TBH like pretty much everyone except for recruiters, I know nothing about footy recruitment. Hindsight is a beautiful thing for all those having a sook about under-performing past draft selections.

Get over it. It's 2010, and we're going to reload for a better 2011. Go Hawks!

 

[grizzlym]

I'm hurting that we didn't draft Tambling.

 

[TAITA]

I'm hurting that we didn't draft Tambling.

I'm seriously not hurting that we didn't second time around.

Ahhhhh.......the enjoyment I shall reap watching my Crows supporting son getting his hopes up to Everist (perhaps Kosiosko might be a better example) stage and then thankfully being snuffed out..........

Life can be bliss from time to time.

 

[bards]

Someone asked me the other day who the idiot was that picked Mitch Thorp instead of Jack Riewoldt. I told them it was the same bloke who managed to ignore Tambling and pick Franklin and Roughead instead. I won.

Very easy in hindsight people. Our recruiters got us a flag, no doubt about it. Picks such as Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Birchall, Ellis etc all had a huge impact in our 2008 season and premiership. Every club could go through its draft histroy and pull out a list of better players missed. You recruit these kids at 17 or 18, before they are fully developed both physically and mentally. Its not an exact science. Would be much easier to make the selections at 21 after three years of football.

 

[grizzlym]

I'm seriously not hurting that we didn't second time around.

Ahhhhh.......the enjoyment I shall reap watching my Crows supporting son getting his hopes up to Everist (perhaps Kosiosko might be a better example) stage and then thankfully being snuffed out..........

Life can be bliss from time to time.

I'm hurting we didn't draft him first time around. I mean, what possessed us to draft that Franklin kid?

 

[BYWs Dimi Pumpa]

Someone asked me the other day who the idiot was that picked Mitch Thorp instead of Jack Riewoldt. I told them it was the same bloke who managed to ignore Tambling and pick Franklin and Roughead instead. I won.

Very easy in hindsight people. Our recruiters got us a flag, no doubt about it. Picks such as Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Birchall, Ellis etc all had a huge impact in our 2008 season and premiership. Every club could go through its draft histroy and pull out a list of better players missed. You recruit these kids at 17 or 18, before they are fully developed both physically and mentally. Its not an exact science. Would be much easier to make the selections at 21 after three years of football.

My thoughts are picking up 2 or 3 guns is not a successful recruitment drive especially with low picks. Buddy and rough were picks 2 and 5, how many of these players are duds!!

And we won a premiership because we had a different game plan than 15 other clubs. THE CLARKO CLUSTER!

Just like everyone wanted pattison last year, i was preying for skipper who proved to be a good selection. I'm not stupid when it comes to drafting, you and TAITA are just freaking blind!!!

And recruiting two players with two #6 draft picks who had serious knee issues was a MASSIVE gamble. You would take those gambles with later picks. Use your low picks on players who are deemed fit with minimal injuries and ideally none whatsoever.

Is it me or are we the only club who still hasn't got a player from the top 10 from the 2006 draft:

1 1 Bryce Gibbs Glenelg Football Club Carlton
1 2 Scott Gumbleton Peel Thunder Essendon
1 3 Lachlan Hansen Gippsland Power Kangaroos
1 4 Matthew Leuenberger East Perth Football Club Brisbane Lions
1 5 Travis Boak Geelong Falcons Port Adelaide
1 6 Mitchell Thorp Tassie Mariners Hawthorn
1 7 Joel Selwood Bendigo Pioneers Geelong
1 8 Ben Reid Murray Bushrangers Collingwood
1 9 David Armitage Morningside Football Club St Kilda
1 10 Nathan Brown North Ballarat Rebels Collingwood

 

[TAITA]

My thoughts are picking up 2 or 3 guns is not a successful recruitment drive especially with low picks. Buddy and rough were picks 2 and 5, how many of these players are duds!!

And we won a premiership because we had a different game plan than 15 other clubs. THE CLARKO CLUSTER!

Just like everyone wanted pattison last year, i was preying for skipper who proved to be a good selection. I'm not stupid when it comes to drafting, you and TAITA are just freaking blind!!!

And recruiting two players with two #6 draft picks who had serious knee issues was a MASSIVE gamble. You would take those gambles with later picks. Use your low picks on players who are deemed fit with minimal injuries and ideally none whatsoever.

Is it me or are we the only club who still hasn't got a player from the top 10 from the 2006 draft:

1 1 Bryce Gibbs Glenelg Football Club Carlton
1 2 Scott Gumbleton Peel Thunder Essendon
1 3 Lachlan Hansen Gippsland Power Kangaroos
1 4 Matthew Leuenberger East Perth Football Club Brisbane Lions
1 5 Travis Boak Geelong Falcons Port Adelaide
1 6 Mitchell Thorp Tassie Mariners Hawthorn
1 7 Joel Selwood Bendigo Pioneers Geelong
1 8 Ben Reid Murray Bushrangers Collingwood
1 9 David Armitage Morningside Football Club St Kilda
1 10 Nathan Brown North Ballarat Rebels Collingwood

Freaking blind beats freaking stoopid.

Who the **** are the two No 6 draft picks we drafted with knee injuries doofus?

The one bloke you've listed with knee problems was Joel Selwood.

Go back and hit the 'roids brother.

 

[Bosk]

I can see him being traded to Sydney for a 5th round pick and being their leading goalkicker next year.

 

[hawkstars]

that is ugly news. I had a lot of time for him earlier this year but he failed to deliver once again when he was given plenty of chances. Has the size, skill & athleticism but is afraid of the contest. This was reinforced to me while watching him at Box Hill. Shirks the contest time & time again.

Muston should be retained ahead of Morton. Get rid of him Hawks, doesn't deserve another chance I'm afraid.

I find it hard to believe how many chances someone like Morton got in seniors and did NOTHING. Dowler when in the seniors did well. We haven't given him a good chance to play FORWARD in the seniors. The lead up. Now goneski hey? Hope he goes elsewhere and shows most what he can do as a forward. Go to the tigers with Jack. I think that would be a good fit.

 

[BobHawk]

Even if delisted I am sure Dowler will be given the opportunity to try out with a few clubs. Richmond, Melbourne and Carlton are the obvious ones. Good luck to him. Can take a mark and kicks straight. A fresh start might be what he needs. Personally, wouldn't mind a straight swap for Thornton at Carlton who seems gone over there although the folk at Princes Park are probably trying to get more for him. Not a big fan but would give us an option up back if we can't get "our man" whoever that is.

I am still scratching my head over Morton who was given the 19 guernsey at the start of the season and hope he can turn it around. Also hope that Muston stays and is given a chance on the wing or as a rebounding half back. Has looked good the few times I have seen Box Hill. Think he certainly has something to offer.

 

[Splodge15]

Give it up guys. Dowler is gone.

Morton showed a bit for Box Hill at the end of the season and provides some backup in defence.

 

[dipper86]

Someone asked me the other day who the idiot was that picked Mitch Thorp instead of Jack Riewoldt. I told them it was the same bloke who managed to ignore Tambling and pick Franklin and Roughead instead. I won.

Very easy in hindsight people. Our recruiters got us a flag, no doubt about it. Picks such as Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Birchall, Ellis etc all had a huge impact in our 2008 season and premiership. Every club could go through its draft histroy and pull out a list of better players missed. You recruit these kids at 17 or 18, before they are fully developed both physically and mentally. Its not an exact science. Would be much easier to make the selections at 21 after three years of football.

No you didn't win because it wasn't the same bloke, Pelchen arrived at the club in 2005, the 2004 draft was before Pelchen's time.

I think we have to look at the facts, thats where Pelchen will and should be judged upon.

Out of 7 first rounders from 2005 to 2008 we have 2 regulars in (Birchall and Ellis) 1 absolute Gun in (Rioli) and one expected to make it but not quite there yet in (Shoenmachers)

3 out of 7 first rounders playing. with Shoey expected to make it. 4 out of 7.

Compare this to a side like Collingwood.

They have had 5 first rounders from 2005 to 2008, all 5 are in there best line up. ( Thomas, Pendlebury, Brown, Sidebottom, Reid)

5 out of 5

His failings in recruitment has meant that we have had to trade to bring in players to cover the void, here's hoping that the next batch make it from 2008 onwards. because if they don't we are going to be in some serious Caca in the future.

 

[Hawks2009]

No you didn't win because it wasn't the same bloke, Pelchen arrived at the club in 2005, the 2004 draft was before Pelchen's time.

I think we have to look at the facts, thats where Pelchen will and should be judged upon.

Out of 7 first rounders from 2005 to 2008 we have 2 regulars in (Birchall and Ellis) 1 absolute Gun in (Rioli) and one expected to make it but not quite there yet in (Shoenmachers)

3 out of 7 first rounders playing. with Shoey expected to make it. 4 out of 7.

Compare this to a side like Collingwood.

They have had 5 first rounders from 2005 to 2008, all 5 are in there best line up. ( Thomas, Pendlebury, Brown, Sidebottom, Reid)

5 out of 5

His failings in recruitment has meant that we have had to trade to bring in players to cover the void, here's hoping that the next batch make it from 2008 onwards. because if they don't we are going to be in some serious Caca in the future.

While im not totally disagreeing with you, do you think this is the only reason or is it that the pies develop their young players better then we do. I reckon that is our big problem, Kids come to us with tallent and potential and i reckon we dont develop them well enough

 

[dipper86]

While im not totally disagreeing with you, do you think this is the only reason or is it that the pies develop their young players better then we do. I reckon that is our big problem, Kids come to us with tallent and potential and i reckon we dont develop them well enough

I have also thought about this, but then why has Franklin, Rioli, Roughead, Lewis, Birchall and Ellis all developed and the other picks havent...... Maybe we just got the picks wrong, for various reasons, recruiting injured players, head cases, players that just aren't as talented as we thought they were etc.

 

[cuttlefish]

While im not totally disagreeing with you, do you think this is the only reason or is it that the pies develop their young players better then we do. I reckon that is our big problem, Kids come to us with tallent and potential and i reckon we dont develop them well enough

There's also the issue of wacky team structure that Hawks have been playing under for a couple of years. That sort of on-field environment would not be ideal for a new player to find their feet in.
A number of very young players have been thrown into positions completely unfamiliar to them, then moved to another entirely different position, under intense scrutiny and pressure.
You could just as equally argue that that is what AFL is all about, and if you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen, but it does make you wonder with our high draft picks going missing like that. Just seems wasteful to me.
Hell, even Franklin and Rough have struggled (comparatively) in that forward line over the past two seasons for no apparent reason, so what hope have
the brand new players had ? All talls (Morton, Dowler, Thorp), and nothing gained from any of them...

 

[TwoBeaus]

The dowler situation highlights a broader weakness in the Hawks over the last 5 years: that of player development.

Thorp, Dowler, Dawson are just three examples of players who did not improve while on on list, in fact it could be argued that went backwards while on our list.

Other clubs have surpassed us with player developement. The Pies premiership was build on a dozen low profile players who improved significantly after a relatively short time on the list.

Recruiting resources are vital, but development resources probably more important. The Hawks have a lot of catching up to do in this area and inability to land high quality assistants with proven success in development such as Alan Richardson or Silvagni does not bode well.

and as zac learnt, once your in clarkos bad books, its very hard to get an opportunity to prove yourself

 

[cuttlefish]

The dowler situation highlights a broader weakness in the Hawks over the last 5 years: that of player development.

Thorp, Dowler, Dawson are just three examples of players who did not improve while on on list, in fact it could be argued that went backwards while on our list.

Other clubs have surpassed us with player developement. The Pies premiership was build on a dozen low profile players who improved significantly after a relatively short time on the list.

Recruiting resources are vital, but development resources probably more important. The Hawks have a lot of catching up to do in this area and inability to land high quality assistants with proven success in development such as Alan Richardson or Silvagni does not bode well.

and as zac learnt, once your in clarkos bad books, its very hard to get an opportunity to prove yourself

Yeah, forgot about Zac. Clarko's bad books...not a good place to be. However, now we have precedent setting itself up. There is life after Clarko's bad books, and once players realise that, they will chose to look elsewhere to resurrect their careers.
We must be pretty close to seeing the same thing happening with Dowler, Morton, or both.
One way or another, it seems like a terrible waste to not be able to develop these kids into regular contributors.

One other thing, if one of our twin towers was to go down with an injury, who steps in ? We've put a few games into Morton and Dowler, and Schoey (on your boot), but should Morton and Dowler leave the Hawks, we then are falling back on very inexperienced players (in a like for like replacement), and exposed for depth. Shouldn't we still be developing guys like Dowler for just this scenario ?