Ben Cousins in trouble - suffers fall in hospital

[coryne]

Ahhhh "bleeding hearts", you have already reduced me to a cliche. Bravo!

The cocaine thing is a figment of your imagination, not mine.

You reduced me to the "has no clue about addiction" cliche yourself you tool ..............

Thanks for the free pharmacology lecture.

Isn't google amazing?

Actually it was more a molecular biology lecture. If I started talking about the structural differences between MPH and Cocaine, and how it related to the differences in the interaction with the dopamine receptor, then it would be a pharmacology lecture............. Oh and unlike you I can actually read and evaluate a journal article, not rely on "quality" sources such as ScienceDaily and Wikipedia for information eek:)

Look, contact Noel:

http://www.cvsa.com.au/?author=3

He's always looking for a few more vengeance types to update his repertoire of Herald Sun guest appearance spots.



The war was lost a long time ago, and it cannot be won, nor is it designed to be won.

There's far too much money at stake on either side of the fence.

 

[Old Skool]

You should have just posted this in the first place and saved on the bandwidth.

 

[1970crow]

I appreciate your effort to behave like a reasonable adult instead of resorting to the standard emotional outrage response that has put society in it's current position.

All addictions are terrible, and fundamentally, this isn't about drugs.

It has much deeper psychological roots.

like your addiction to media bashing?

 

[Old Skool]

like your addiction to media bashing?

Has someone raised the ire of the Southbank Pravda?

I'd wager more people have learned something of actual value in this thread, than from that fish and chip wrapper.

 

[1970crow]

Mate stop making shit up. The "stories" were based off of 1 article (first story, I wrote that in a paragraphy I deleted) and x2 hospital releases which didn't go through peer-reviewing (the stories sight "Story Source: The above story is reprinted from materials provided by Massachusetts General Hospital, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.")



That said, the stories themselves ("Published" on the ScienceDaily website) are not from peer reviewed sources .........






No the stories conclude



In other words the use of the stimulants to treat the risk factor for early drug use (ADHD) had an effect during early development (eg addressed the behavoral problems which could lead to smoking/drug use) but had NO EFFECT on what may occur during adulthood.


As for the whole "Kids can have it so everyone should" line, what a load of bs. It is like saying "the Army/Police are allowed to have high powered fire arms so why can't I". I would have no problem using MPH as a TREATMENT for those trying to overcome cocaine addiction, but saying cocaine should be freely available as it would help reduce addiction (or what ever lines bleeding hearts use these days" is absolute crap.




Yes they have a "similar effect" in they both block dopamine uptake, but MPH interacts differently with the dopamine uptake receptors. As you said it's effects are long-lasting (+90 minutes) thus you can't binge on it. It is also taken differently (oral apposed to injected) meaning it is slowly accumulated in the brain so a high (caused by high amounts of cocaine in the brain causing a rapid accumulation of dopamine in the neural synapse via an inhibition of dopamine uptake) isn't achieved unless it is abused (eg snorted or injected) and even then the high is limited due it it's long-lasting effects.





I have lived with a drug addict (my brother) for a large portion of my life so don't tell me I have no idea about drug addiction. I have heard all the bs excuses used to justify drug use, and lived through what happens when the shit hits the fan during a binge. I have seen how badly drugs screw up peoples minds and lives, and the last thing addicts need is free access to leagalised drugs.

What they need improved rehab programs, long-term counsiling and out-reach support. But most of all they need to want to quit, because no amount of support will do anything if the addict is pulling shit out their ass about what is happening. This is why the justifications used by/for drugs addicts are so dangerous, because as long as you can justify it (drug use) you will never beat the addiction.

come on mate. our resident expert has already stated that all they need is a few km's of remote broken fencing. look, i respect your knowledge and personal experience, but surely you're making it too complicated.

 

[lock33]

All Im getting from this thread that drugs are fine as long as its quality MDMA or Coke but Cokes too expensive or we could hit it hard and that all coppers are ***** for holding out on us.

 

[Ron The Bear]

10 billion doses in 1969

970,000 dependent users in 1970-71.

Where are all the loonies?

Here's one. Still inside.

 

[Old Skool]

Here's one. Still inside.

Suitably extreme Ron.

Well done.

Do you know where the other 969,999 went?

 

[Tulip]

All Im getting from this thread that drugs are fine as long as its quality MDMA or Coke but Cokes too expensive or we could hit it hard and that all coppers are ***** for holding out on us.

Sad, really.

 

[Pepziteric]

Charlie never killed anyone either
He made people do it for him which is much more powerful and dangerous

 

[galindez]

Weird thread. Just wondering if the people on this thread condemning all recreational drug use ever go out for a drink? Cause that is a position that involves some serious cognitive dissonance...

 

[Ron The Bear]

Do you know where the other 969,999 went?

Herb Mullin, look him up. I don't intend to track them all down.

 

[Old Skool]

Thanks Ron.

That's 0.0002% covered

Roughly about the same odds of me winning tattslotto on Saturday with a standard quick pick ticket.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Thanks Ron.

That's 0.0002% covered

Roughly about the same odds of me winning tattslotto on Saturday with a standard quick pick ticket.

You're the one making a case, how about you find the stats - hospitalisation, institutionalisation, crime, prison, death. And cost it out. (NB It'll be hard to put a monetary value on mental trauma caused to families and friends.)

 

[Shane Hird]

Thanks Ron.

That's 0.0002% covered

Roughly about the same odds of me winning tattslotto on Saturday with a standard quick pick ticket.

You should read this book...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucifer_Principle



The world will become a much easier place for you to live in..

 

[Old Skool]

The world will become a much easier place for you to live in.

..........peace is submission, social hierarchies are natural, ideas are polarizing, and liberal individualism is invidious to the collective “superorganism” that both oppresses, nourishes and saves us. Fascism really is the “natural state” in every sense of the term.

It appears to be thoroughly familiar.

 

[Jaeger]

I think the worst thing for him was moving back to Perth after retiring.

Sure he could - and likely would - have got seriously back on drugs in Melbourne, but Perth is where it all started.

It seems like a lot of his non-football mates in Perth are heavy drug users and he was always going to knock around with those guys after football, considering he spent so much time with them over the course of a professional footy career.

I feel sorry for anyone with a serious addiction be it drugs, alcohol, gambling, et al.

Hopefully Cousins can beat this before it's too late. Unfortunately at this stage that looks unlikely.

 

[JimDocker]

Weird thread. Just wondering if the people on this thread condemning all recreational drug use ever go out for a drink? Cause that is a position that involves some serious cognitive dissonance...

There has been hardly anybody condemning all recreational drug use. It has been a pretty robust debate with most people holding some sort of middle ground.

 

[Old Skool]

I don't think he's trying to defend Ben's use of drugs at all, I'm sure he is as aware as anyone how utterly destructive and horrific drug addiction has been to Ben's life.

No matter one's view on drug legalisation/prohibition, I don't think you will find anyone who will defend another's drug abuse and addiction.

He only makes the point that society and the media's view on these issues is ignorant and counter-productive, which I agree with (although I don't necessarily share his view that full blown drug legalisation is a great idea).

A Comparison of Aripiprazole, Methylphenidate, and Placebo for Amphetamine Dependence


Jari Tiihonen; Kimmo Kuoppasalmi; Jaana Föhr; Pekka Tuomola; Outi Kuikanmäki; Helena Vorma; Petteri Sokero; Jari Haukka; Esa Meririnne
Am J Psychiatry 2007;164:160-162. 10.1176/appi.ajp.164.1.160

Objective: Problems related to illegal amphetamine use have become a major public health issue in many developed countries. To date, evidence on the effectiveness of psychosocial treatments has remained modest, and no pharmacotherapy has proven effective for amphetamine dependence. Method: Individuals meeting DSM-IV criteria for intravenous amphetamine dependence (N=53) were randomly assigned to receive aripiprazole (15 mg/day), slow-release methylphenidate (54 mg/day), or placebo for 20 weeks. The study was terminated prematurely due to unexpected results of interim analysis. An intention-to-treat analysis was used. The primary outcome measure was the proportion of amphetamine-positive urine samples. Results: Patients allocated to aripiprazole had significantly more amphetamine-positive urine samples than patients in the placebo group (odds ratio=3.77, 95% CI=1.55—9.18), whereas patients who received methylphenidate had significantly fewer amphetamine-positive urine samples than patients who had received placebo (odds ratio=0.46, 95% CI=0.26—0.81). Conclusions: Methylphenidate is an effective treatment for reducing intravenous drug use in patients with severe amphetamine dependence.

http://dsm.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=97748&RelatedWidgetArticles=true

Yes, that's right folks. A prescribed and managed amphetamine analogue dosage regime to assist in the management of amphetamine addictions.

Isn't it time we started managing this issue and stopped punishing sick people?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Isn't it time we started managing this issue and stopped punishing sick people?

Isn't it time we prevented people from getting "sick" in the first place? Unfortunately the world will always have a surplus of young people who think it could never happen to them. I'm sure Ben felt the same way.

 

[Old Skool]

Isn't it time we prevented people from getting "sick" in the first place? Unfortunately the world will always have a surplus of young people who think it could never happen to them. I'm sure Ben felt the same way.

Of course AH, but let's be realistic.

1) 5 decades of laws and trillions of dollars have not even put a dint in the drug problem. In fact it has grown.

2) The overwhelming majority of drug users are recreational users. They will not end up having issues with drug use. In fact, many of these people will have positive experiences.

3) It's time we started treating dependency as a health problem, instead of a criminal problem. The current ideology is not solving or managing the problem.

 

[Ron The Bear]

3) It's time we started treating dependency as a health problem, instead of a criminal problem. The current ideology is not solving or managing the problem.

Fine, as long as it's made clear that it's a self-inflicted health problem. You're not unlucky. You brought this on yourself. It's up to you to get yourself off it. You need to take responsibility for the problem.

Needs to remain stigmatised, with minimal sympathy.

 

[YearOfTheDog]

Does anyone know where I can download the Ben Cousins documentary? I want to purchase it but I don't want it in DVD format as I don't have a DVD player.

Want to be able to just purchase it and watch it. Tried some of the movie websites but no luck. Cheers.

 

[scottwade]

Does anyone know where I can download the Ben Cousins documentary? I want to purchase it but I don't want it in DVD format as I don't have a DVD player.

Want to be able to just purchase it and watch it. Tried some of the movie websites but no luck. Cheers.

Can't vouch for this mob, but they appear legit, & doco available to download;
http://www.ionlinemovie.com/Movie/Documentary/Such-is-Life-The-Troubled-Times-of-Ben-Cousins/

PS Couldn't you just buy the DVD and watch it on your PC/laptop?

 

[FoootYball]

Good luck to him, i think he will be ok i've seen blokes worst than him pull through, his problem is to much free time and money, most teen's seem to be ditching the bong and onto the crack pipe these days, gonna be a lot of ****ed up people in the next few years