Opinion Best 22 2014

[James North]

Brown-ice will probably play half to two-thirds of the season, I reckon (fitness). If he's super fit and on the field he is still a formidable mark and kick for goal. He'll pretty much always draw the best defender, and will often draw two men (stick figures guys - let's be honest) to a marking contest.

That leaves our other talls to play on second/third-tier tall defenders. Sometimes in recent years that's all Brown has done for an entire game - draw guys to a contest and that's been pretty effective.

He'll be managed pretty tightly I think, but just having him around to direct traffic and provide some mentoring to the younger guys is fantastic.

As matwt73 says - Leppa is probably going to be playing with a few different forward lineups into the beginning of the season. If he and Leppa both think he can bring something to a game on a week-to-week basis, he will be in the team.

Until we are winning more than "almost half the time", we'll probably tinker (no, idiot, Zorko is unrelated to this discussion).

To let go is to accept, not to deny.

 

[KissKiss]

Next topic - ice cream sucks. Discuss.

Well thats just plain wrong, you clearly havent been eating the right ice cream

 

[Ironmonger]

I actually think that in a roundabout way we are all arguing the same thing, but from different angles:

- Brown hasn't hung up the boots yet because there is still a place for him in the senior squad
- It's unlikely that he'll play every game though
- As such, those games where he is sore of injured will be good for the team, because it forces us to find a plan B and C, this enables us to make use of our best available team when it's available, while continuing to organise for the future to ensure our forward setup of the future is experienced and well drilled
- Haso is a pretty cool guy


I think that we can have the best of both worlds. Brown filling a slightly reduced role, playing to the strengths that he still has, while we also tinker with the Brown-less forward line, which I think will be made from a combination of Staker, McGrath, McGuane, Green, and one of Close/Lisle/Paine/Freeman.

When seeking validation goes too far.

 

[carnthemlions]

Honestly, Brown is still the only player in our team who I can see kicking a bag more than once or twice this year if fit enough. Guys like McGuane, Green or Staker might kick 3, but that's about their limit.
You can't expect to do well with a forward line featuring 0 players with proven capability to kick 30+ goals in a season.

 

[Dan12]

Honestly, Brown is still the only player in our team who I can see kicking a bag more than once or twice this year if fit enough. Guys like McGuane, Green or Staker might kick 3, but that's about their limit.
You can't expect to do well with a forward line featuring 0 players with proven capability to kick 30+ goals in a season.

Not exactly true, try five players. McGuane kicked 20 in 11 games IIRC last season, Green got 24 goals in 17 games, Browny kicked 28 in 16, Staker surely got comfortably more than a goal a game and McGrath has a great goal sense and is a proven goal kicker. So while I (and everyone else) know our forward line is our biggest issue, we have a number of guys who could consistently contribute on the scoreboard.

 

[Haso]

When seeking validation goes too far.

Why are people so unkind.

 

[Billy Puller]

I dunno about anyone else but I'm expecting Brisbane to make a big big play for a kpf at the end of this year. for me the Patton rumours don't sound to far fetched. also is that Sydney guy can't think of his name right now Ried I think. Pretty sure he's out of contract at the end of the year. I reckon we will try trade to fix our forward line problem before we start to develop our own. Right now close looks like he's got somethin but I don't thunk he will be consistant for another two three years.

 

[Haso]

I dunno about anyone else but I'm expecting Brisbane to make a big big play for a kpf at the end of this year. for me the Patton rumours don't sound to far fetched. also is that Sydney guy can't think of his name right now Ried I think. Pretty sure he's out of contract at the end of the year. I reckon we will try trade to fix our forward line problem before we start to develop our own. Right now close looks like he's got somethin but I don't thunk he will be consistant for another two three years.

Nope, signed a 5 year contract in 2011.

 

[carnthemlions]

Not exactly true, try five players. McGuane kicked 20 in 11 games IIRC last season, Green got 24 goals in 17 games, Browny kicked 28 in 16, Staker surely got comfortably more than a goal a game and McGrath has a great goal sense and is a proven goal kicker. So while I (and everyone else) know our forward line is our biggest issue, we have a number of guys who could consistently contribute on the scoreboard.

I was talking about what our forward line would look like without Brown.
So while those guys are probably capable of kicking 30+ goals each, it's no certainty.
If Brown stay fit enough to play 15+ effective games for us, our forward line can kick enough goals. Without him, I'm not sure.

 

[winged1]

A lot of conjecture about somebody's form, when he hasn't managed to get on the field this year.

If he is fit, he is in. Still streets ahead of any other KPF on the list.

 

[Viceregal]

If Brown is taking the best defender that is fine - if they are double teaming him even better *IF* the delivery we send into the forward 50 takes advantage of it ... if Brown is over there with two or three evil beasts hanging off him then there are one or two of our guys who are free to receive service etc....

 

[Billy Puller]

Nope, signed a 5 year contract in 2011.

Ah well I am sure there will be a KPF looking for a trade out of either sydney or GWS with the amount of KPF's they have

 

[Football Pope]

I was talking about what our forward line would look like without Brown.
So while those guys are probably capable of kicking 30+ goals each, it's no certainty.
If Brown stay fit enough to play 15+ effective games for us, our forward line can kick enough goals. Without him, I'm not sure.

It's interesting.....we've had key forwards that have been able to kick bagfuls in the NEAFL..but haven't been able to make an impact at AFL level... seemed strange to me in the past 2 seasons and the injuries sustained to key forwards they weren't given them more game time..just rejigged the backline...The odour of a coach playing for his career..

I'm surprised at the lack of development with Lisle into his 3rd year with us, he played 5 at the Hawks in 2011 and the opposition in those games was Suns x2, Dons, Freo & Pies. Given that the VFL is a much stronger competition, feel we may have been duped by the romantic notion of him not getting a game with Buddy & Roughy in the team. Just doesn't seem to have mongrel in him to play as a key....needs to deliver this year or it's curtains....

Paine has played 6 senior games and my first thought not again we haven't been duped by the romantic notion of him not getting a game with Cloke, Lynch & White in the team..seemed to be the player at Sandringham and Malvern..Like most at Collingwood he never travelled Paine has played were against quality opposition. Blues, Dons, Freo, Hawks, Port & Tiges

In the absense of Brown I can see our forward line being Staker, McGuane and West with the other talls being given game opportunity by earning their spots by rotation...

 

[Big Sauce 21]

It's a nice thought, especially when you have a great team, but that's a great way to get the coach fired in a couple of years if he's only coaching for now each year. Any decent administration is always planning for the future.

playing Lisle with Close without brown will end in embarrassments, play them with Brown and situations change. blood Close this season with Brown. You couldn't expect him to come straight in and get sat on by someone like Scott Thompson or Josh Gibson

 

[whizkizz]

IMO the last two weeks has given some insight to how the Round 1 team will look, and where Leppa rates some of our '15-22 players'.

Looks like guys like Paparone, Aish and Robertson are being rated over Polkinghorne, Raines, Bewick and Maguire; who only managed the first game with the kids.

Still have to drop a few back out of the squad before Saturday; I anticipate Cutler and Bourke to be 2 of the 3.

Close v. Paparone for the last spot in the 24.

With Staker and McGrath still to come back, and an additional 2 who have to squeeze out of the 24 to make 22, it feels like the list is in pretty good shape. Just need that key forward...

 

[cotter101]

Really hope Cutler plays Saturday. Been really impressive.

 

[JMan5]

Mayes had a blinder of a year in his rookie season finishing with 18 games and 12 goals and also other great stats. His form will continue to improve this year and will be one of our future leaders if the Lions can keep him. I also hope Joel Patfull does not get Best and Fairest this year because that will mean that the ball is spending too much time in the backs.

 

[cotter101]

Mayes had a blinder of a year in his rookie season finishing with 18 games and 12 goals and also other great stats. His form will continue to improve this year and will be one of our future leaders if the Lions can keep him. I also hope Joel Patfull does not get Best and Fairest this year because that will mean that the ball is spending too much time in the backs.

Not really...

 

[AFLQLD]

IMO the last two weeks has given some insight to how the Round 1 team will look, and where Leppa rates some of our '15-22 players'.

Looks like guys like Paparone, Aish and Robertson are being rated over Polkinghorne, Raines, Bewick and Maguire; who only managed the first game with the kids.

Still have to drop a few back out of the squad before Saturday; I anticipate Cutler and Bourke to be 2 of the 3.

Close v. Paparone for the last spot in the 24.

With Staker and McGrath still to come back, and an additional 2 who have to squeeze out of the 24 to make 22, it feels like the list is in pretty good shape. Just need that key forward...

I am wondering if Close might be our best answer to the forward conundrum, not straight away and not the whole answer but the key bit we need to develop and work on. For that reason I am inclined to try to get some games into him now whenever there is no clearly better alternative. Since the forward line is the major issue anyway, do we lose much by having him there? At least he is getting experience against top quality defenders. If Staker and McGrath are underdone for Round One then it is an opportunity for Close to develop a little more.

It seems to me that Leppa is four-fifths the way to knowing his best 22 and I wouldn't be surprised if he is also keeping a separate list of his 2015-16 best 22 and will be getting plenty games into those boys whenever the chance arises. My impression is also that Polks and co are really depth only now, for use when there are no alternatives in the younger group. I could be wrong though.


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[James North]

Very glad that Leppa is discussing these things out loud.

Starting with the ball in Rich's hands from defence gave the Lions far more fluency and potency from their back half.

"There's still three or four things I'm unsure of that might take two weeks, four weeks, five weeks to figure out.

"Is Mitch Golby a better half-back or wingman? Is Daniel Rich a better half-back or inside mid?

"They're the sorts of things we'll have to find over time depending on our game style and what we think."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-09/brown-no-certainty

 

[jackess]

B: Adcock Merrett Patfull
HB: Rich Clarke Harwood
C: Hanley Rockliff Golby
HF: Zorko Staker Mayes
FF: Green Brown McGuane
R: Leuenberger Redden Moloney
Bench: Aish West McGrath Lester

I'm not sure about Maguire vs Clarke. Maguire didn't put a foot wrong last season but you go with Clarke to give him experience and because he's more athletic.

Where does McGrath play? I have McGuane playing his role from last year and I'm not sure where he plays forward if Brown and West are inside 50 and Green and McGuane spend time down there.

Rich or Hanley play loose down back. Lester plays a defensive role on an inside mid if required and Golby plays a defensive role on an outside mid if required.

Aish the obvious choice for sub. All going to plan he replaces West in the second half.

 

[whizkizz]

B: Adcock Merrett Patfull
HB: Rich Clarke Harwood
C: Hanley Rockliff Golby
HF: Zorko Staker Mayes
FF: Green Brown McGuane
R: Leuenberger Redden Moloney
Bench: Aish West McGrath Lester

I'm not sure about Maguire vs Clarke. Maguire didn't put a foot wrong last season but you go with Clarke to give him experience and because he's more athletic.

Where does McGrath play? I have McGuane playing his role from last year and I'm not sure where he plays forward if Brown and West are inside 50 and Green and McGuane spend time down there.

Rich or Hanley play loose down back. Lester plays a defensive role on an inside mid if required and Golby plays a defensive role on an outside mid if required.

Aish the obvious choice for sub. All going to plan he replaces West in the second half.

Agree with most of your calls. Maguire is pretty good cover if we lose Clarke or Merrett to injury.

As much of a liability he can be with ball in hand, I think we still need Raines in the side. Just about every team has a real danger player, and until we groom a Beams or a Lester to provide reliable cover, we can't afford not to have Raines in. He's a bloody good tagger still.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Good to read that West apparently did pretty well in the Sydney practice match and should feature in Round 1. When he played in the Geelong premiership team, he was the perfect #2 ruckman for us, who could take a grab, kick a goal, contribute around the ground and slaughter the Leigh Brown/Jarryd Roughead types in the ruck contests. Then Ottens retired and West's influence outside the ruck contests (where he was just ok, as a #1) diminished to Mark Blake levels. I still think we would have at least made the grand final last year, if West had been in the ruck for us. The thing is, he's rarely been teamed with a genuine ruckman since Ottens retired (and routinely rucked the entire game by himself). If he can get back to his 2011 form, I think he can be a weapon for the Lions as Leuenberger's #2.

 

[scott_the_man]

I wouldnt mind seeing both rich and hanley start across half back.. harwood start in the middle. I think our half back line would be seriously dangerous if we had those two back there - without losing much from our midfield because I think harwood is a good inside mid. It would also suit our new game plan if we had one "quarterback" on each flank, it would allow us to have a good springboard on each side of the ground for the switch.
Something like this:
B: patfull merret adcock
Hb: hanley clarke rich
C: rocky redden aish
Ruck: leuy moloney harwood

Golby starts on the bench and rotates through defence

 

[sonofabeams]

One player Im interested in people thoughts on is Papperone, went to Burpengary on satdee and only seen half the match V the suns, BUT Paps seems to be playing a lot more of a wing role this year, I don't have a issue with that BUT with our lack of Forward 50 targets wouldn't You want someone like him in side 50 to create a marking target.

With Beams out for a extended period any chance Nick Robertson could debut round 1 ?