Best team from last 27 years

[jathanas]

Just a tad stiff seeing as Tony won the Norm Smith medal and Leon didn't get a stat in a Grand Final or two.

I knew it was controversial but it's a personal opinion. T. Shaw was as hard as nails and a damn good footballer but was a limited runner (good endurance but very slow) and couldn't kick over a tin can. Tough call but he wouldn't be drafted today.

Leon didn't trouble the statisticians during the GF but was an all Australian in 2009, and his highlights reel isn't too shoddy.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Sav Rocca > Pebbles Rocca.

 

[DraftBalta]

Shaw Tarrant Clement
Maxwell Reid Morwood
Brown Buckley Millane
Didak Rocca D Thomas
Daicos Cloke Sidebottom

Monkhorst Pendlebury Swan

A Shaw Burns Wright McGuane


Emer
Francis Russell Williams

 

[DraftBalta]

I knew it was controversial but it's a personal opinion. T. Shaw was as hard as nails and a damn good footballer but was a limited runner (good endurance but very slow) and couldn't kick over a tin can. Tough call but he wouldn't be drafted today.

Leon didn't trouble the statisticians during the GF but was an all Australian in 2009, and his highlights reel isn't too shoddy.

Tony Shaw would get 50 disposals a game, cover more kms and lay more tackles than Nat Fyfe in the modern game... and Leon is just laughable in this conversation

 

[jathanas]

Tony Shaw would get 50 disposals a game, cover more kms and lay more tackles than Nat Fyfe in the modern game... and Leon is just laughable in this conversation

That would be hard to prove, and the comparison with Fyfe seems a little exaggerated. I knew my call would raise some eyebrows and it is discounting Tony's leadership but I see him as too slow and less suited to today's style of play. He would be exposed on most but the wettest of days. This is my opinion, and it's as hard to prove as yours.

Davis was amazing for us out of the back half. That's undeniable. I have him in my team for that job.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Davis was amazing for us out of the back half. .

For one of his ten? years.

Even then he let Varcoe kick two valuable goals when it mattered in the GF.

Overrated, our Leon.

 

[The Dawes]

B: J Clement ~ S Prestigiacomo ~ N Maxwell
HB: H Shaw ~ B Reid ~ G Crosisca
C: D Millane ~ N Buckley ~ G Brown
HF: D Swan ~ T Cloke ~ P Williams
F: P Daicos ~ S Rocca ~ A Didak
Foll: D Monkhorst ~ S Pendlebury ~ T Shaw
Int: G Wright ~ M McGuane ~ S Burns ~ C Tarrant

Emerg: L Davis ~ B Johnson ~ S Sidebottom

 

[beerbandit]

B - H.Shaw, S.Prestigiacomo, N.Maxwell
HB - J.Clement, B.Reid, N.Buckley (vc)
C - D.Millane, D.Swan, D.Thomas
HF - G.Brown, T.Cloke, A.Didak
F - A.Rocca, S.Rocca, P.Daicos
R - D.Monkhorst, S.Pendlebury, A.Shaw (c)
Int - M.McGuane, S.Burns, P.Williams, A.Tranqulli

 

[DraftBalta]

That would be hard to prove, and the comparison with Fyfe seems a little exaggerated. I knew my call would raise some eyebrows and it is discounting Tony's leadership but I see him as too slow and less suited to today's style of play. He would be exposed on most but the wettest of days. This is my opinion, and it's as hard to prove as yours.

Davis was amazing for us out of the back half. That's undeniable. I have him in my team for that job.

Davis was amazing for a single season, and who do you drop for him? Heath Shaw? Scott Burns?

And saying Shaw is too slow for the modern game is like saying Diesel Williams wouldn't get a kick today, they would both be the engine room of any modern midfield

Bottom line:

Shaw: Norm Smith
Davis: Donut

 

[mike123]

For one of his ten? years.

Even then he let Varcoe kick two valuable goals when it mattered in the GF.

Overrated, our Leon.

One*

 

[jathanas]

Davis was amazing for a single season, and who do you drop for him? Heath Shaw? Scott Burns?

And saying Shaw is too slow for the modern game is like saying Diesel Williams wouldn't get a kick today, they would both be the engine room of any modern midfield

Bottom line:

Shaw: Norm Smith
Davis: Donut

I actually said he's too slow and can't kick; I suspect he wouldn't get drafted. Love T. Shaw and what he did for Collingwood but these days rovers with his height, pace, and kicking ability get very limited opportunities.

Leon would still fit into any current side.

 

[DraftBalta]

I actually said he's too slow and can't kick; I suspect he wouldn't get drafted. Love T. Shaw and what he did for Collingwood but these days rovers with his height, pace, and kicking ability get very limited opportunities.

Leon would still fit into any current side.

Yeah well Leon always let us down and Tony led us to a flag... and you are kidding yourself if you think he wouldn't be the engine room of any modern midfield, the guy faced all those limitations back in an era without elite training, dieticians etc and was still our best player, he knew how to read the play and position himself like no other... he was like John Carmack "you two, me one" (how many lines of code required to accomplish the same task) he never needed speed and he hit targets by foot better than half our current list, right now he'd slot into our midfield and do a better job than Adams without butchering the ball

 

[jathanas]

Yeah well Leon always let us down and Tony led us to a flag... and you are kidding yourself if you think he wouldn't be the engine room of any modern midfield, the guy faced all those limitations back in an era without elite training, dieticians etc and was still our best player, he knew how to read the play and position himself like no other... he was like John Carmack "you two, me one" (how many lines of code required to accomplish the same task) he never needed speed and he hit targets by foot better than half our current list, right now he'd slot into our midfield and do a better job than Adams without butchering the ball

Tony was a great captain and a bloke I'd love to have a beer or 2 with.

Shaw was an important player in that side but I wouldn't say he was anywhere near our best player. That team consisted of Millane, Brown, Wright, and even a bow-legged Macedonian that kicked 96 goals that year.

Our flag in 1990 would not have happened if we didn't recruit Scooter and Russell.

Having said all that, Shaw and Maxwell are fine examples of players that transcend their physical limitations and become influential on field leaders.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Whenever a best team scenario comes up I've never understood why we have to compare them to "today".

 

[jathanas]

Whenever a best team scenario comes up I've never understood why we have to compare them to "today".

That's a great question.

In any effort to describe a "best of" you'd need to measure against a known standard. Most people know the game as it is today hence the "today" statement. Some of us know how these guys went 30 years ago and are aware of weaknesses that would be show-stoppers today.

Players that have timeless qualities would fit into any side of any era. Nobody is arguing that Peter Daicos or Rowdy wouldn't fit into today's teams, so it depends on the player.

 

[35Daicos]

Whenever a best team scenario comes up I've never understood why we have to compare them to "today".

Yes indeed. All-time great Albert Collier played much of his career at CHB for us, and was obviously a very good one. He was said to be 180cm/85kg and wouldn't get a look in for that position (at that size) if playing today. I think people just need to make the adjustment, and assume that yesteryear's champs were likely to be good enough to be champs today (in the same position) when picking such teams.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

That's a great question.

In any effort to describe a "best of" you'd need to measure against a known standard. Most people know the game as it is today hence the "today" statement. Some of us know how these guys went 30 years ago and are aware of weaknesses that would be show-stoppers today.

Players that have timeless qualities would fit into any side of any era. Nobody is arguing that Peter Daicos or Rowdy wouldn't fit into today's teams, so it depends on the player.

There are no known standards when comparing an era when certain players play. It's just an era. If they were dominate in said era then they should be included.

Obviously it's all subjective, I just don't like excluding someone because "they wouldn't get a game today" which is what you said about T Shaw.

If you had said " I rate player X more than T Shaw" then you'd have a point. When you or anyone brings I'm excluding T. Shaw (as an example) because he wouldn't get a game today, to me that's not fair.

If Nuts Coventry had been a full time professional, with a diet of today he may've kicked 5000 goals. He didn't but you have to take in the era.

That's just how I see these convo's anyway.

 

[DraftBalta]

Shaw was an important player in that side but I wouldn't say he was anywhere near our best player. That team consisted of Millane, Brown, Wright, and even a bow-legged Macedonian that kicked 96 goals that year.

Firstly he won the Copeland Trophy that year so he was literally and officially our best player according to the club

Led disposals all year and laid the most tackles... was the heart, soul and driving force behind the flag and won the Norm Smith with 30 possessions

Yes all the players you mentioned had more talent... and yes he was clearly our best player despite it

Thinking he wouldn't make it today is a fantasy

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-collingwood-magpies?year=1990&rt=TA&st=DI

 

[jathanas]

There are no known standards when comparing an era when certain players play. It's just an era. If they were dominate in said era then they should be included.

Obviously it's all subjective, I just don't like excluding someone because "they wouldn't get a game today" which is what you said about T Shaw.

If you had said " I rate player X more than T Shaw" then you'd have a point. When you or anyone brings I'm excluding T. Shaw (as an example) because he wouldn't get a game today, to me that's not fair.

If Nuts Coventry had been a full time professional, with a diet of today he may've kicked 5000 goals. He didn't but you have to take in the era.

That's just how I see these convo's anyway.

Can't argue with that. Your perspective has helped me see comparing players of different eras in a new light.

I clearly don't rate Shaw as much as others.

 

[jathanas]

Firstly he won the Copeland Trophy that year so he was literally and officially our best player according to the club

Led disposals all year and laid the most tackles... was the heart, soul and driving force behind the flag and won the Norm Smith with 30 possessions

Yes all the players you mentioned had more talent... and yes he was clearly our best player despite it

Thinking he wouldn't make it today is a fantasy

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-collingwood-magpies?year=1990&rt=TA&st=DI

It's better that I clarify. He tackled the most that year but kicked 7 goals, it was his role. He didn't get anywhere near as many tackles the year before or after. My rating of him is a just my opinion and it could very well be wrong according to you (and many others).

I'd never argue against Shaw being the heart and soul (and mouth, he could sledge) of the club in 1990.

Peace.

 

[DraftBalta]

It's better that I clarify. He tackled the most that year but kicked 7 goals, it was his role. He didn't get anywhere near as many tackles the year before or after. My rating of him is a just my opinion and it could very well be wrong according to you (and many others).

I'd never argue against Shaw being the heart and soul (and mouth, he could sledge) of the club in 1990.

Peace.

You said he wasn't anywhere near our best but he won the Copeland, led disposals and made Team of the Century

B: Harold Rumney, Jack Regan, Syd Coventry (c)
HB: Billy Picken, Albert Collier, Nathan Buckley
C: Thorold Merrett, Bob Rose, Darren Millane
HF: Des Fothergill, Murray Weideman, Dick Lee
F: Phonse Kyne, Gordon Coventry, Peter Daicos
Foll: Len Thompson, Des Tuddenham, Harry Collier
Int: Tony Shaw, Wayne Richardson, Marcus Whelan, Gavin Brown
Coach: Jock McHale

 

[jathanas]

You said he wasn't anywhere near our best but he won the Copeland, led disposals and made Team of the Century

B: Harold Rumney, Jack Regan, Syd Coventry (c)
HB: Billy Picken, Albert Collier, Nathan Buckley
C: Thorold Merrett, Bob Rose, Darren Millane
HF: Des Fothergill, Murray Weideman, Dick Lee
F: Phonse Kyne, Gordon Coventry, Peter Daicos
Foll: Len Thompson, Des Tuddenham, Harry Collier
Int: Tony Shaw, Wayne Richardson, Marcus Whelan, Gavin Brown
Coach: Jock McHale

Yes. I did. It is my opinion.

 

[DraftBalta]

Yes. I did. It is my opinion.

Well the club obviously disagrees, they voted him the best player and then voted him an all time greatest player

 

[Robroy22]

Well the club obviously disagrees, they voted him the best player and then voted him an all time greatest player

The fact that there's no Johnny Greening, James Clement or Peter Moore in that "Team of the Century" just makes it defunct in my eyes. Shawy was a great little skipper and a wonderful role model but Ronnie Wearmouth was a far better player. It's a bit like replacing Nuts Coventry with Maxy or Jock McHale with Mick!!

Peter Moore won a Brownlow for goodness sakes!

 

[Obese Arachnid]

The fact that there's no Johnny Greening, James Clement or Peter Moore in that "Team of the Century" just makes it defunct in my eyes. Shawy was a great little skipper and a wonderful role model but Ronnie Wearmouth was a far better player. It's a bit like replacing Nuts Coventry with Maxy or Jock McHale with Mick!!

Peter Moore won a Brownlow for goodness sakes!

I'm not disagreeing with you but Brownlows are hardly a measuring stick.

To name a few, Darcy, Teasdale, Cooney, Woewodin, Wilson, & Hardie.