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jimbler said:
Anyone know anything about this promotion? Has it been ongoing? Can't find anything about it on the Unibet site. Found it on a promotions site.

image.jpg


http://www.racingbase.com/category/promotions/
Click to expand...

I've used Unibet before and they are legit and fine. Just not a great sign up offer. You can find heaps of better offers on others sites like these if you want.

http://www.aussiebetoffers.com/
http://www.australianfreebets.com.au/
 

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FallingLiefs said:
Because breeding is so cheap.
Click to expand...

With no due respect to your comment, that's an irrelevant argument. You get the opportunity to sell your horse, so the transaction of breeding is between breeder-buyer. The breeder foots the bills for the conception of the foal, the buyer evaluates its worth and works out whether to pay for it, and how much.

So -

1. Breeder pays the bills to breed the horse.
2. Buyer pays the fee to buy it
3. Buyer pays the fees to raise it
4. Buyer pays the fees to the trainer to train it (including pre training etc)
5. (Hopefully) it races
6. Punters bet on it
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose

...and so on. In which part of this were the breeders harshly treated?
 
Hi guys, I've got a special if you don't have a Ladbrokes account where you'll get $110 to bet with and no deposit required. Can't get this anywhere else. Message me if your interested.
 
Duritz said:
With no due respect to your comment, that's an irrelevant argument. You get the opportunity to sell your horse, so the transaction of breeding is between breeder-buyer. The breeder foots the bills for the conception of the foal, the buyer evaluates its worth and works out whether to pay for it, and how much.

So -

1. Breeder pays the bills to breed the horse.
2. Buyer pays the fee to buy it
3. Buyer pays the fees to raise it
4. Buyer pays the fees to the trainer to train it (including pre training etc)
5. (Hopefully) it races
6. Punters bet on it
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose
7. Punters pay the fees to racing boards (RB) for prizemoney
8. Owners collect prizemoney
9. Punters lose

...and so on. In which part of this were the breeders harshly treated?
Click to expand...

So the owners should pay the fees?
 
FallingLiefs said:
So the owners should pay the fees?
Click to expand...

There seems to be a disconnect between your idea of payments, and realities.

Everyone who participates in this sport, should participate in paying for it. Right now punters fund pretty much the entire sport. Breeders in this country EXIST because people like me bet. Breeders would VERY, VERY quickly die if people did not bet.

So, embrace, if you want to, a futuristic dream world where money does not matter and breeders get free reign, while the money is provided by some other force, not sure who, but so long as it comes through, OK?
 
Duritz said:
There seems to be a disconnect between your idea of payments, and realities.

Everyone who participates in this sport, should participate in paying for it. Right now punters fund pretty much the entire sport. Breeders in this country EXIST because people like me bet. Breeders would VERY, VERY quickly die if people did not bet.

So, embrace, if you want to, a futuristic dream world where money does not matter and breeders get free reign, while the money is provided by some other force, not sure who, but so long as it comes through, OK? Let's call it 2017.
Click to expand...

How do owners pay for the prizemoney though?
 

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FallingLiefs said:
How do owners pay for the prizemoney though?
Click to expand...

They don't. That's the con... punters pay the prizemoney. Owners pay the bills etc etc.

Prizemoney comes from ONE source and ONE source only: the punter.

And before you say "No! It also comes from the advertiser!" Remember the advertiser ONLY exists with the punter. If the punter is not there, neither is the advertiser.

But that's OK... let's make an industry of breeders... I'm sure the sheik will bail us out when we're broke...
 
im not disagreeing the punters deserve a better go but surely this falls back on the international corporates. They don't provide their share back to racing. Off top of my head Darwin based corporates return about 2% of their profit +\- 3% depending on what races they are betting on + a minuscule standing fee. Local bookmakers pay triple and a standing fee. Tabcorp pay about 20%. So when the corporates turn around and say oh we can't cop this tax, they can they just don't want to damage their profit so they turn the costs back to the punters and in turn punters take aim at any low hanging fruit. These taxes had to come. Also only NSW to blame for the arms race they started with prizemoney.
 
Last edited:
And re: breeding I get people see the MM Gold Coast and Inglis Easter numbers and go where's our share. but truth is there's a lot of turnover and medium profits with a fair share of losing breeders and a small sample of big winning ones just like the punters. Can't comment on the big studs but if more fees were introduced in WA the breeding industry would just about fold overnight too many people just hanging on at the moment and already expecting another poor season. Would have to be a luxury tax style idea if it were introduced.
 
In closing, the first job for anything to do with this debate is tax bookmakers equally. Online corporates shouldn't be given a leg up over other corporates because where they stand or what they bet on or leg up over tabcorp or local on course bookies. First let them all have a fair and equal share and therefore chance at succeeding/losing. If that doesn't cover costs then work back on average profits on all facets of racing (unlikely to be required or even a significant figure)
 
FallingLiefs said:
In closing, the first job for anything to do with this debate is tax bookmakers equally. Online corporates shouldn't be given a leg up over other corporates because where they stand or what they bet on or leg up over tabcorp or local on course bookies. First let them all have a fair and equal share and therefore chance at succeeding/losing. If that doesn't cover costs then work back on average profits on all facets of racing (unlikely to be required or even a significant figure)
Click to expand...


Good shout.

It's tough to legislate because bookmaker tax is under state control, but there needs to be a national body overseeing this with enough federal powers to create equality in this space.

They also should have enough powers to create consistency on how taxes are calculated, or we end up with this farcical situation where NSW are rolling with a turnover model rather than revenue meaning VLadnys has pretty much closed BF for business on NSW gallops

Could also incorporate a national position on minimum bet laws etc

Whilst the power stays solely with the states the model facilitates and supports inequality
 
FallingLiefs said:
In closing, the first job for anything to do with this debate is tax bookmakers equally. Online corporates shouldn't be given a leg up over other corporates because where they stand or what they bet on or leg up over tabcorp or local on course bookies. First let them all have a fair and equal share and therefore chance at succeeding/losing. If that doesn't cover costs then work back on average profits on all facets of racing (unlikely to be required or even a significant figure)
Click to expand...

Yes, I do agree with this. The corporates are scum.
 
https://www.racingandsports.com.au/en/racing/betfair-and-racing-nsw-disagree-on-fees-story-409640

On every $1 bet placed by a punter on a standard NSW thoroughbred race corporate bookmakers and Betfair currently pay 1.5 cents to the NSW racing industry while the NSW TAB pays up to 7 cents on every $1 bet.

Racing NSW will apply a half of one cent increase from July 1...................

“In 2008 when the 1.5 cents charge was initially introduced corporate bookmakers who have sustainable business models were generating a profit of 6 cents in every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred race meetings.

“They are now generating on average12 cents profit on every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred meetings.”
Click to expand...

the corporates did this in SA as well. they turned the public against the industry by leaking false information and stating mistruths to protect their already extremely healthy profit margin. Betfair weren't forced to raise the margins they just saw an opportunity and took it with both hands. how does a 0.5c or 0.5% rise somehow get related to a 2% betfair fee simple maths says they just hiked it up 4x the amount they were entitled to. when you consider about 80% of turnover is fixed odds and trending upwards and tabcorp make more per dollar on fixed odds than the guaranteed profit of the tote, there is no need for the hike. other than to not only hold profit margins but increase them while making ignorant punters angry at owners, trainers and breeders.

****ing thieves and 90% of the people are on their side at the moment.
 
haha yeah betfair is the one spreading misinformation

someone who trades and bets $5000 at $2.40 and lays $5000 at $2.20 makes $1000 if he wins, pays $80 commission at 8% but Betfair have to pay the 2% on the $5000 so it costs them $20 overall

you're excused as you obviously don't know how an exchange works, vlandys clearly knows and is still increasing through greed
 
Lensen said:
haha yeah betfair is the one spreading misinformation

someone who trades and bets $5000 at $2.40 and lays $5000 at $2.20 makes $1000 if he wins, pays $80 commission at 8% but Betfair have to pay the 2% on the $5000 so it costs them $20 overall

you're excused as you obviously don't know how an exchange works, vlandys clearly knows and is still increasing through greed
Click to expand...

Well they don't actually lose as the punter gets pinged with a surcharge in that scenario. Then it just becomes a case of having to beat a the houses percentage just like everyone else but thanks for the bite.
 
FallingLiefs said:
Well they don't actually lose as the punter gets pinged with a surcharge in that scenario. Then it just becomes a case of having to beat a the houses percentage just like everyone else but thanks for the bite.
Click to expand...
yes they don't lose unless they up charges (even further if someone on a turnover charge or premium charge, which not all are) which is kinda the point betfair are making
 

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