Bigman’s Training Reports

[Bearded Clam]

I always think it's weird when people think CBAs = midfield.

So…

Whats your idea of a centre bounce attendee then?..

Someone who attends the centre bounce then doesnt play midfield?..

Think you’ll find that most players who attend centre bounces, except the ruckman, are midfielders and play in the midfield.

Occassionally you’ll get a small/medium forward or a half back flanker that might attend a CB and then after the bounce ends up floating back to their normal spot on the ground.

But it would be safe to say most CB attendees are mids who subsequently follow the ball around the ground after the initial centre bounce and attend other stoppages around the ground as mids.. would it not?

 

[dogs105]

So…

Whats your idea of a centre bounce attendee then?..

Someone who attends the centre bounce then doesnt play midfield?..

Think you’ll find that most players who attend centre bounces, except the ruckman, are midfielders and play in the midfield.

Occassionally you’ll get a small/medium forward or a half back flanker that might attend a CB and then after the bounce ends up floating back to their normal spot on the ground.

But it would be safe to say most CB attendees are mids who subsequently follow the ball around the ground after the initial centre bounce and attend other stoppages around the ground as mids.. would it not?

I think he means that cba attendance is sufficient but not necessary to identify a midfielder.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

I always think it's weird when people think CBAs = midfield.

Attending centre bounces generally means they are running through the midfield, unless its like dusty or papley where they just go forward after. A winger/HF might moving into stoppages is also midfield but slightly less time in the midfield than someone who started in a centre bounce

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I always think it's weird when people think CBAs = midfield.

Of course, because that would allow you to defend the coaches parking young mids at half forward for seasons on end!

They are playing midfield... HFF is basically an extra midfielder...

Fine. If they're interchangeable roles then there's no problem with Laird or Sloane or Crouch playing there at times. So why don't they?

Big credit to Keays for becoming effective in a role outside the centre square. Has created space for others. Need more of it from the senior guys.

 

[Mostyn]

So…

Whats your idea of a centre bounce attendee then?..

Someone who attends the centre bounce then doesnt play midfield?..

Think you’ll find that most players who attend centre bounces, except the ruckman, are midfielders and play in the midfield.

Occassionally you’ll get a small/medium forward or a half back flanker that might attend a CB and then after the bounce ends up floating back to their normal spot on the ground.

But it would be safe to say most CB attendees are mids who subsequently follow the ball around the ground after the initial centre bounce and attend other stoppages around the ground as mids.. would it not?

No, you've misunderstood and got it backwards.

People constantly use CBAs as the main evidence of who's getting midfield time.

Better stats would be who's around the ball at stoppages and who's getting from contest to contest, as there are always more midfielders playing than just those at a centre bounce attendance. Centre bounces wouldn't be 5% of gametime.

We massively overrated CBAs, because it's an easy stat to get your hands on. But it doesn't actually tell you much.

 

[Mostyn]

Of course, because that would allow you to defend the coaches parking young mids at half forward for seasons on end!

They are playing midfield... HFF is basically an extra midfielder...

Fine. If they're interchangeable roles then there's no problem with Laird or Sloane or Crouch playing there at times. So why don't they?

Big credit to Keays for becoming effective in a role outside the centre square. Has created space for others. Need more of it from the senior guys.

Sloane played wing, half back and half forward at times last year - not sure why you needed to change the discussion back to the same complaints that we've had about senior players though.

If you truly think there's only three midfielders on the ground at any one time - those at centre bounces - then good for you.

Obviously there isn't. That's my point.

 

[Crow till I die]

I think we're better off with Rankine in the forward line and Ned in the 2's, than Ned in the forward line and Crouch/ Laird in the 2's.

We are better off with rankine in the midfield. Would we have been better off leaving andy mcleod as a forward?

You play your superstars where they can do the most damage and him wheeling out of centre sidestepping players and feeding our power fowards is the apex for us

 

[Bearded Clam]

No, you've misunderstood and got it backwards.

People constantly use CBAs as the main evidence of who's getting midfield time.

Better stats would be who's around the ball at stoppages and who's getting from contest to contest, as there are always more midfielders playing than just those at a centre bounce attendance. Centre bounces wouldn't be 5% of gametime.

We massively overrated CBAs, because it's an easy stat to get your hands on. But it doesn't actually tell you much.

Well..

This is your arguement.. I take it that you have delved into the stats and figures when formulating it..

So hit us with them..

Because.. from where I sit watching most games it seems that the midfielders that attend the centre bounces are, more often than not, then seen at the next stoppages around the ground..

exceptions to the rule being, as i said in my previous comment, when a small forward or a half back type attends a CB and then floats back into the forward line or defense straight after it and doesnt go on to attend further stoppages around the ground..

Happy to see the stats on this though.

 

[Mostyn]

We are better off with rankine in the midfield. Would we have been better off leaving andy mcleod as a forward?

You play your superstars where they can do the most damage and him wheeling out of centre sidestepping players and feeding our power fowards is the apex for us

Wasn't McLeod more a half back than a forward?

 

[Crow till I die]

Wasn't McLeod more a half back than a forward?

Started up forward, moved to half back where he won his 1st norm smith then wwnt into the midfield to become one of the greatest indigenous players of all time at least in the modern era

 

[Mostyn]

Well..

This is your arguement.. I take it that you have delved into the stats and figures when formulating it..

So hit us with them..

Because.. from where I sit watching most games it seems that the midfielders that attend the centre bounces are, more often than not, then seen at the next stoppages around the ground..

exceptions to the rule being, as i said in my previous comment, when a small forward or a half back type attends a CB and then floats back into the forward line or defense straight after it and doesnt go on to attend further stoppages around the ground..

Happy to see the stats on this though.

Just to check - there's three players at a centre bounce. Your argument is there's only three midfielders on the ground at any one time?

Do you not think that there's players that immediately push up to the contest once the ball has been bounced, and then play through the midfield?

I'm not that interested in arguing it. If people watch the game and see it a different way, that's fine.

 

[George Kramer]

No, you've misunderstood and got it backwards.

People constantly use CBAs as the main evidence of who's getting midfield time.

Better stats would be who's around the ball at stoppages and who's getting from contest to contest, as there are always more midfielders playing than just those at a centre bounce attendance. Centre bounces wouldn't be 5% of gametime.

We massively overrated CBAs, because it's an easy stat to get your hands on. But it doesn't actually tell you much.

It’s friggin crucial to winning centre clearances to actually attend a CBA!

 

[George Kramer]

Now I’m feeling guilty, Mutineer wouldn’t be aware of this thread and is going to miss the training reports. Can someone let him know of its existence and that I’ll go easy on his blinkered opinions.

 

[rabidcrow]

Of course, because that would allow you to defend the coaches parking young mids at half forward for seasons on end!

They are playing midfield... HFF is basically an extra midfielder...

Fine. If they're interchangeable roles then there's no problem with Laird or Sloane or Crouch playing there at times. So why don't they?

Big credit to Keays for becoming effective in a role outside the centre square. Has created space for others. Need more of it from the senior guys.

I think it was pretty clear last year the only reason we didn’t see Rach or Pedlar in the middle more often was tank. I am not sure why there is so much angst about our midfield and lack of build in the space. We have 2 guys who are just about there. Both attended more CBAs than Rozee or Butters at comparable career stages - and yes I know Port had a better midfield at the same stages. Doesn’t mean you just throw the kids in


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sloane played wing, half back and half forward at times last year - not sure why you needed to change the discussion back to the same complaints that we've had about senior players though.

If you truly think there's only three midfielders on the ground at any one time - those at centre bounces - then good for you.

Obviously there isn't. That's my point.

When did Sloane play half back?

I just recall them moving Jones back to cover our injured defenders.

Never recalled Sloane moving back?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Well..

This is your arguement.. I take it that you have delved into the stats and figures when formulating it..

So hit us with them..

Because.. from where I sit watching most games it seems that the midfielders that attend the centre bounces are, more often than not, then seen at the next stoppages around the ground..

exceptions to the rule being, as i said in my previous comment, when a small forward or a half back type attends a CB and then floats back into the forward line or defense straight after it and doesnt go on to attend further stoppages around the ground..

Happy to see the stats on this though.

There are players who don't attend CBA's .....but do with around the ground ball-ups

It's becoming more prevalent with the 6 x 6 x 6 requiring short distance speed .....a guy like Macrae this year was starting HF and rotating thru the midfield ......looking at his CBA's gives you no guidance to his role

Others, as has been outlined are starting on the WING at CBA's .....and then rotating into the midfield

As Mostyn said, CBA's are an easy stat to grab ....it tells a large portion of the picture, but not the whole picture

 

[WaynesWorld19]

When did Sloane play half back?

I just recall them moving Jones back to cover our injured defenders.

Never recalled Sloane moving back?

Do we think we know all the evolving roles of players ? .....it's a maul out there ....all we see is starting positions sometimes

 

[Bearded Clam]

Just to check - there's three players at a centre bounce. Your argument is there's only three midfielders on the ground at any one time?

Do you not think that there's players that immediately push up to the contest once the ball has been bounced, and then play through the midfield?

I'm not that interested in arguing it. If people watch the game and see it a different way, that's fine.

What‘s to check?.. this is a well known fact..

but if youre one of these 3 main midfielders attending CBA then its more likely than not that your a) a midfielder and b) also going to be a midfielder that attends other stoppages around the ground..

your initial comment seemed to say “just because you attend CBA’s doesnt = youre a midfielder..”



now if you think this isnt a strange take then I dont know what to say to you..

I’d say atleast 80% of CBA attendees (apart from the ruck) are midfielders who play in the midfield!.

 

[Big Dub]

We are better off with rankine in the midfield. Would we have been better off leaving andy mcleod as a forward?

You play your superstars where they can do the most damage and him wheeling out of centre sidestepping players and feeding our power fowards is the apex for us

I think that there needs to be a bit of a balance between playing your best 22 (in whatever position they all fit) and playing your stars in their best position (with some best 22 players missing out and back filling with role specific players). But I don't think that that is the issue here.

I just think that Rankine can and will do the most damage in the forward lines not the midfield. He creates goals in our forward line that other forwards simply can't, and goals are worth more than centre clearances.

I'd much rather players like Rachele and Pedlar are prioritised in the midfield. We lose less damage from the forward line and I think that their potential in the midfield is higher than Rankine's (and that's not saying that Rankine doesn't have elite traits that could transfer to the midfield).

You play Bunji (Rachele) in the midfield/ half back, but you play Betts/ Cyril Rioli up forward.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Do we think we know all the evolving roles of players ? .....it's a maul out there ....all we see is starting positions sometimes

Yet you didn't answer the question.

I seriously cannot recall Sloane been used as a defender.

You can tell when they all line up for a centre bounce!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yet you didn't answer the question.

I seriously cannot recall Sloane been used as a defender.

You can tell when they all line up for a centre bounce!

That's what I'm saying .....defining a role by starting positions at CB's, is not definitive

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That's what I'm saying .....defining a role by starting positions at CB's, is not definitive

Sloane didn't play in defence imo... no matter the bizarre arguments you are trying to come up with.

 

[Crow till I die]

I think that there needs to be a bit of a balance between playing your best 22 (in whatever position they all fit) and playing your stars in their best position (with some best 22 players missing out and back filling with role specific players). But I don't think that that is the issue here.

I just think that Rankine can and will do the most damage in the forward lines not the midfield. He creates goals in our forward line that other forwards simply can't, and goals are worth more than centre clearances.

I'd much rather players like Rachele and Pedlar are prioritised in the midfield. We lose less damage from the forward line and I think that their potential in the midfield is higher than Rankine's (and that's not saying that Rankine doesn't have elite traits that could transfer to the midfield).

You play Bunji (Rachele) in the midfield/ half back, but you play Betts/ Cyril Rioli up forward.

See i see rankine as bunji with his skillset. But all 3 of him, rachele and pedlar should be more through the middle and the odd one out is resting forward. All 3 can do real damage up forward lucky for us

 

[dogs105]

What‘s to check?.. this is a well known fact..

but if youre one of these 3 main midfielders attending CBA then its more likely than not that your a) a midfielder and b) also going to be a midfielder that attends other stoppages around the ground..

your initial comment seemed to say “just because you attend CBA’s doesnt = youre a midfielder..”

View attachment 1864550

now if you think this isnt a strange take then I dont know what to say to you..

I’d say atleast 80% of CBA attendees (apart from the ruck) are midfielders who play in the midfield!.

FFS

Attend a CB - you're a midfielder

Don't attend a CB - you might be a midfielder.

Just read what he's saying...

 

[Big Dub]

See i see rankine as bunji with his skillset. But all 3 of him, rachele and pedlar should be more through the middle and the odd one out is resting forward. All 3 can do real damage up forward lucky for us

I think that's our (potentially glorious) future, with Laird (maybe to half back) or Crouch eased out over the next few years. But for the right now, we don't have enough hard bodies in there to go with the better sides, so can't let either of Laird or Crouch go.

Pedlar probably takes some of that inside mid time over the next season if he can keep his body right, with Rachele and Rankine (I think we only differ in amount of midfield time) being more outside/ half forward for now.