Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[SkyhorseTamer]

As a collective all sides have such a short and finite window for pieces of a list to align at the same time. Cripps was 22 at the start of this journey and this build was to be around him. On current trajectory we are already too late to maximise that strategy. We can go to the draft (which for midfielders is my preferred choice BTW) however for a kid drafted now puts most on the list over 25 currently, out of the picture on terms of hitting peak output collectively. We don't have the time if you are going to maximise those heavy draft years of 4 / 5 yrs ago. We got some selections wrong and now we have to back fill. If a couple of draft picks of ours had developed as expected we wouldn't be having this conversation. But no one get them all right. It also really shines a light on the mcG trade and the Williams trade in terms of value/ age /cost v required output. It's a nuanced juggling act. Will we get it right? ..........

I don't think its too late for this list build to be around Cripps. That's exactly what it still is. You can't have 44 people of the same age on the list. He's clearly the leader of the 'new carlton' group. If most of the 30s retire this season its suddenly all about 'Cripps crew'.

 

[myblueroan]

I'm hearing this:

- Ferris and a 1st round pick to North board
- Snake_Baker to Carlton

Whell!!!!
That is just insulting.

I'm hearing this:

- Ferris and a 1st round pick to North board
- Snake_Baker to Carlton

Cerra could be a very good midfielder but there is NO CHANCE he or anyone else coming in could become our best midfielder over time. Not even Bont or Oliver coming in could ever become our best mid. Not even a young 2001 Judd or 2001 Ablett could come in and become our best mid over time.

We already have the GOAT and he’s just getting started.


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He's so good he's a SOAT. That's like a 6 star hotel.
Superbest of all time

 

[Arr0w]

Yes, I think it will happen, but all good plans have good fail safes and change ups when something doesn't work (injury)...

You also know how crucial continuity and cohesion is to team success, in fact to any organization

 

[Sheephead]

Charlie, Harry, McG, Jack and TDK has been the dream combo.

Next year we might see them all developed, all fit and all ready to perform.

It's what i've been waiting patiently for.

Agree - Fingers crossed. Add Fish and/or Fogarty to that crew also I believe. I wish Eddie was 10yrs younger, but I would throw serious attention into a Stack or Bobby Hill or an indigenous kid like that, even consider SPS in the forward line. But I think Fish/Fog/SPS all have the tools to be our small forward/Mid/Wing.

Re Cerra - he’s worth our first all day everyday. You can’t just say because he was a First he’s worth less, in fact he’s worth more as FRE have put the time into him. The market has set the price on these kids. Adding a Fish or SPS (even Carroll) to the deal demands a little comp coming back, but nothing excessive. We all want to win deals, but that’s not reality. Saad for 8 is a perfect example. I’m sure if we went back over the last 10 drafts and looked where the Top 10 picks are now, we’d say Saad was a win. It’s a lottery, not a draft. Jack - Watts and Trengove - say hello. If FRE say 1st and SPS for Cerra - you’re off to Tullamarine and hope they pack better than a future 3rd with him.

Here’s a question - where was the greatest small forward drafted? Eddie was a ?? pick.

Same with Josh Kelly. You give GWS and him the best you have and can afford. They’re known quantities and wanting better just doesnt happen.

Is that OK Ferris? Do I get day release?

 

[smashbox gill]

Agree - Fingers crossed. Add Fish and/or Fogarty to that crew also I believe. I wish Eddie was 10yrs younger, but I would throw serious attention into a Stack or Bobby Hill or an indigenous kid like that, even consider SPS in the forward line. But I think Fish/Fog/SPS all have the tools to be our small forward/Mid/Wing.

Re Cerra - he’s worth our first all day everyday. You can’t just say because he was a First he’s worth less, in fact he’s worth more as FRE have put the time into him. The market has set the price on these kids. Adding a Fish or SPS (even Carroll) to the deal demands a little comp coming back, but nothing excessive. We all want to win deals, but that’s not reality. Saad for 8 is a perfect example. I’m sure if we went back over the last 10 drafts and looked where the Top 10 picks are now, we’d say Saad was a win. It’s a lottery, not a draft. Jack - Watts and Trengove - say hello. If FRE say 1st and SPS for Cerra - you’re off to Tullamarine and hope they pack better than a future 3rd with him.

Here’s a question - where was the greatest small forward drafted? Eddie was a ?? pick.

Same with Josh Kelly. You give GWS and him the best you have and can afford. They’re known quantities and wanting better just doesnt happen.

Is that OK Ferris? Do I get day release?

Agree as others have said Cerra is easily worth our 1st pick. SPS probably needed as well.
He was drafted pick 5 and has proven his draft rating.

The problem I have is the $$$. I’m not sure it’s wise to be spending $700k to bring a 21yo over.
But then again im not sure what our salary cap looks like

 

[Sheephead]

Whell!!!!
That is just insulting.


He's so good he's a SOAT. That's like a 6 star hotel.
Superbest of all time

That’s so lame. Stop horsing around. Haven’t you got an equestrian event or something you should be training for. Baaaa!

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

I kind of agree. SPS definitely has some value. Think he’d thrive more on a wing or half forward flank at Freo. The part of the proposed deal I don’t like is the first rounder. I’d be doing everything I could to hold onto it.

It may be a very unpopular opinion on here but I’d potentially even throw Fisher into a deal for Cerra if it meant we held onto our first round pick. Fisher is no doubt a handy best 22 player but I feel we have players that could pick up the slack such as Newnes Williams Cuningham Owies Martin Honey Dow Gibbons.

Maybe SPS, Fisher and a pick upgrade in Freos favour for Cerra? Helps clear some cap space too for new contracts.

I like it!

 

[Sheephead]

Agree as others have said Cerra is easily worth our 1st pick. SPS probably needed as well.
He was drafted pick 5 and has proven his draft rating.

The problem I have is the $$$. I’m not sure it’s wise to be spending $700k to bring a 21yo over.
But then again im not sure what our salary cap looks like

Fair call, but, Cerra has shown some good things. Petracca at the same stage was considered trade fodder and a bust, then BANG. You gotta gamble. Dow is just starting to hit his straps now and a lot were ready to jettison him. Walsh is just a gem and actually far against the norm - I’d give him a million over 10 today - because he’d repay it. They’re all different, so are all playing situations and clubs. He’d be coming home, that’s gotta be a plus. He also hasn’t re-signed that’s gotta be a warning to FRE. The money is a trading tactic to some degree also. Show me you want me. No-one will convince me Josh Kelly doesn’t want home. The money he can take is sick - but why hasn’t he signed.

Another kid I’d look closely at is Lachlan Scholl at the Crows. There’s quality there, but he’s now struggling unfortunately after a great start. Would a change help him. I’d make the phone call.

I reckon Rankine at GCS will ask for a trade this year. Not to us, but home to SA. It’s hard for some of these kids.

 

[Sheephead]

I kind of agree. SPS definitely has some value. Think he’d thrive more on a wing or half forward flank at Freo. The part of the proposed deal I don’t like is the first rounder. I’d be doing everything I could to hold onto it.

It may be a very unpopular opinion on here but I’d potentially even throw Fisher into a deal for Cerra if it meant we held onto our first round pick. Fisher is no doubt a handy best 22 player but I feel we have players that could pick up the slack such as Newnes Williams Cuningham Owies Martin Honey Dow Gibbons.

Maybe SPS, Fisher and a pick upgrade in Freos favour for Cerra? Helps clear some cap space too for new contracts.

Makes sense too. FRE could use two tried players as much as anything. Holding onto our first is always seen as a plus, but is not as primo as some think. Swap our first for FRE first isn’t the worst incentive either if they finish higher.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

You also know how crucial continuity and cohesion is to team success, in fact to any organization

When the big injuries are like 2 years long that's pretty good continuity....

 

[mjonc43]

There is a certain aura about Gov. He's going to be another Paddy Dow next year, and make a lot of bigfooty posters eat their words. He also resembles Dow in the way he doesn't need a shitload of possessions to be awesome, always looking to bring others into the game.

I hope you’re right. To this point he never gets on the ground long enough.


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[gadj1976]

So our first, 8-9 plus a late second? My thoughts are pretty close and that if Freo got the top 10 pick, as long as they got an upgrade somewhere else, would do the deal.

I see this as quite fair and not high at all, for a proven commodity, as in, you have a relevant body of work, to determine output.

The $$$$ though

Would a FA like Hewitt, who would be free, but still cost $500,000 be better value?

Theres plenty of ways to get back in the draft if needed.

Remember, Freo have a history of getting poor returns for their trades. I suspect they'll want two first rounders for him as a starting point.

 

[LanceRomance]

There is a certain aura about Gov. He's going to be another Paddy Dow next year, and make a lot of bigfooty posters eat their words. He also resembles Dow in the way he doesn't need a shitload of possessions to be awesome, always looking to bring others into the game.

Gov is a freak, problem is that he isn't on the park enough.

He also needs to be minded by a quality defender leaving Harry, Charlie, or Jack to go about their business.

 

[Coops93]

Remember, Freo have a history of getting poor returns for their trades. I suspect they'll want two first rounders for him as a starting point.

What do you mean? The McLeod trade was an obvious win for them

 

[Gavstar]

What do you mean? The McLeod trade was an obvious win for them

Pick 2 for Lachie Weller......

 

[Bostonian]

Agree as others have said Cerra is easily worth our 1st pick. SPS probably needed as well.
He was drafted pick 5 and has proven his draft rating.

In no way has SPS justified being taken at pick 6.

I doubt many clubs would be giving up a 1st round pick for him.

 

[CaptainCharisma]

Anyone throwing out hypothetical trades for Cerra that don't involve our first pick as a starting point are dreaming

 

[smashbox gill]

In no way has SPS justified being taken at pick 6.

I doubt many clubs would be giving up a 1st round pick for him.

I was referring to Cerra being worth pick 5?

 

[Bostonian]

I was referring to Cerra being worth pick 5?

Sorry, it read like you were referring to SPS.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Anyone throwing out hypothetical trades for Cerra that don't involve our first pick as a starting point are dreaming

Yep. Our 1st must be part of the deal one way or another. And a fair chunk of cap space.

This is where caving in pick 8 for Saad will haunt us. I reckon the earliest pick we will get is 7. Darcy and Daicos will push that to 9. If I was Freo, I'd be asking for a considerable amount more than our 1st given what we gave up for Saad...

My main concern isn't that we'll cave in to Freo's demands, but rather what "meeting in the middle" will actually end up costing us.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

The plan was Harry/Charlie/Mitch to dominate any defensive structure in the competition - it could and should still happen.

Will only happen if McGovern stays on the park and is effective as 2nd ruck.

 

[smashbox gill]

Yep. Our 1st must be part of the deal one way or another. And a fair chunk of cap space.

This is where caving in pick 8 for Saad will haunt us. I reckon the earliest pick we will get is 7. Darcy and Daicos will push that to 9. If I was Freo, I'd be asking for a considerable amount more than our 1st given what we gave up for Saad...

My main concern isn't that we'll cave in to Freo's demands, but rather what "meeting in the middle" will actually end up costing us.

Agreed. The Saad trade for me was and still is baffling to me that we gave up pick 8 without getting much back.
Austin inexperience showed against Dodoro.
Let’s see if he’s better for it

 

[Coops93]

Agreed. The Saad trade for me was and still is baffling to me that we gave up pick 8 without getting much back.
Austin inexperience showed against Dodoro.
Let’s see if he’s better for it

Is the 2nd best general defender in the league not worth a top 10 pick?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Yep. Our 1st must be part of the deal one way or another. And a fair chunk of cap space.

This is where caving in pick 8 for Saad will haunt us. I reckon the earliest pick we will get is 7. Darcy and Daicos will push that to 9. If I was Freo, I'd be asking for a considerable amount more than our 1st given what we gave up for Saad...

My main concern isn't that we'll cave in to Freo's demands, but rather what "meeting in the middle" will actually end up costing us.

You do realise that every deal is done on its own and pretty much is controlled by what collateral that clubs have.

The Saad deal will have no impact on any Cerra deal (which is more likely not to happen than happen).

Sounds more to me like wanting to have a whack at Austin than any discussion about a potential deal.

Adam Saad has had an excellent season, has been a real professional and rates very highly as a defender in all afl stats. Wouldn't be too hard to make a case that we didn't overpay by much if at all.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Played completely out of position, gets dropped and ignored.
Works his way back into the team, cops an injury. Played after 4 weeks off, obviously struggles, dropped again.

Horrific coaching, just one example.

Kennedy has gone well past Setterfield imo plus can spend time as a forward.

If Setterfield puts in another performance like this years in 2022, its over for him.