Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Blue_Fusion]

Cerra's cost will have nothing to do with Saad.

Well yeah, of course, what's Saad got to do with anything? Does he take a seat at the negotiation table during trade week?

But Freo's asking price will certainly be influenced by Austin's previous trades... and the Saad trade is the most glaring whether you like it or not.

Geelong are known for being easy to deal with in trades, probably paid overs to us for Henderson. As a result clubs are happy to deal with them . That appears to have worked for them overall.

If they didn't trade for Henderson, they could've added Charlie or Harry to their list... you sure it worked out well?

You appear to think that the Dodoro method works well. Hasn't appeared to so far for *.

"notorious for being a **** wit" = "you appear to think that the Dodoro method works well"

Ok mate... way to totally extrapolate crap out of what I said...

I'm not sure that I have to realise anything apart from the fact that you are not happy with the Saad trade and want to keep going on about it.

I made one comment about it... you're the one who got all hot and bothered by it...

Why are you deciding to take it as a personal attack on Austin? Bit bored?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Considering after Saad we were basically done and the Don's needed to get more deals done at the time we could have 100% held off longer. Austin got shown up as rookie year one. Doesn't mean he can't improve bounce back though

Once again don't agree.

Saad rated 2nd best general defender so can hardly be described as a bust.

It's not a bad thing to be seen as a good club to deal with.

Maybe the only thing that we did wrong was to identify a piece of the puzzle that we thought would make us significantly better from *. Once we made promises it was up to us to get it done. Hopefully in the future we won't bother with *.

 

[Robertio]

Yes, unless we brown nose every decision the club makes, it sounds like a hidden agenda to you...

You don't pay pick 8 for a 27 year old hbf. Simple as that.

How about you realise that when a club strikes a deal, that impacts their reputation? Why do you think Dodoro is notorious for being a fu** wit at the trade table?

If you think Freo won't say something along the lines of "well you paid pick 8 for a hbf, Cerra is young and set to be a star midfielder, we're going to need a fair bit more than pick 9 (or 10-13) to get it done" then you're dreaming.

It will cost our 1st + SPS minimum.

It was pick 8 & 87 and we got Corey Durdin with the third round pick we got back.

 

[Poorman53]

Once again don't agree.

Saad rated 2nd best general defender so can hardly be described as a bust.

It's not a bad thing to be seen as a good club to deal with.

Maybe the only thing that we did wrong was to identify a piece of the puzzle that we thought would make us significantly better from *. Once we made promises it was up to us to get it done. Hopefully in the future we won't bother with *.

I'm not questioning Saad, he is a gun.

We don't have to be handing out Brock McLean deals early in trade week either though. Your obligation is get the best deal for your team, the Don's had a lot going on at the time we could have waited.

Is it easy to deal with... or showing others you'll flinch first?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Well yeah, of course, what's Saad got to do with anything? Does he take a seat at the negotiation table during trade week?

But Freo's asking price will certainly be influenced by Austin's previous trades... and the Saad trade is the most glaring whether you like it or not.



If they didn't trade for Henderson, they could've added Charlie or Harry to their list... you sure it worked out well?



"notorious for being a fu** wit" = "you appear to think that the Dodoro method works well"

Ok mate... way to totally extrapolate crap out of what I said...



I made one comment about it... you're the one who got all hot and bothered by it...

Why are you deciding to take it as a personal attack on Austin? Bit bored?

So we are in agreement that the Dodoro method is ridiculous and that it clearly hasn't served * well.

By saying that Geelong's method of being prepared to pay overs (if needs be) has worked well I am speaking about their overall on field performance, not any individual trade.

My personal preference is that we run our recruiting department more like Geelong than *. If that means that we don't "win" every trade then so be it.

From last years trade/draft period we got Williams, Saad, Durdin, Carroll and Parks. Saad has been an excellent performer.

I was of the belief that as this is an internet forum for discussion about opinions relating to our club. Having a discussion about your opinion hardly qualifies as being hot and bothered

 

[JuddgementDay]

I'm hearing $700k for Cerra, yes I would love another quality mid - but, at what cost?

How are we going to keep all our young talent?
Start with Walsh - where's the money to keep him, whilst we already got big $$$ on Crippa, H and the recent recruits from other teams?

 

[thylacine60]

As a collective all sides have such a short and finite window for pieces of a list to align at the same time. Cripps was 22 at the start of this journey and this build was to be around him. On current trajectory we are already too late to maximise that strategy. We can go to the draft (which for midfielders is my preferred choice BTW) however for a kid drafted now puts most on the list over 25 currently, out of the picture on terms of hitting peak output collectively. We don't have the time if you are going to maximise those heavy draft years of 4 / 5 yrs ago. We got some selections wrong and now we have to back fill. If a couple of draft picks of ours had developed as expected we wouldn't be having this conversation. But no one get them all right. It also really shines a light on the mcG trade and the Williams trade in terms of value/ age /cost v required output. It's a nuanced juggling act. Will we get it right? ..........

Lot has to go right as you so eloquently described.

 

[Coops93]

I'm hearing $700k for Cerra, yes I would love another quality mid - but, at what cost?

How are we going to keep all our young talent?
Start with Walsh - where's the money to keep him, whilst we already got big $$$ on Crippa, H and the recent recruits from other teams?

Who are our actual big earners? Cripps took a pay cut.

Harry & Williams are the 2 I can think of. J Martin was front loaded and isn't on too much now, Saad wasn't too much, $700k or so? Think we'll be able to sort out Walsh fairly easily.

edit Just remembered Charlie is on about $800k or so. Easy to forget as he's not been around much!

 

[Gavstar]

Saad was a great pick because Carlton needed a fast deliverer from defence, that can also lock down. We now need a decent young KPP, so lets forget Cerra for a first rounder and let Kemp and Carroll develop and join Cunners in our AFL team next year. Cerra is a fine player, but he's not a necessity for us, especially for $700 k.

At times some of the footage of Saad was quite damning failing to play defence and hunting cheapie disposals. Saad is not a lockdown defender.

Still we know his game is a run and carry and he has done that well at times better perhaps than our other unaccountable HBF's in Newman, Williams and Doherty.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It was pick 8 & 87 and we got Corey Durdin with the third round pick we got back.

It doesn't matter who was selected. Cory Durdin for all we know could turn out to be a dud or the gem of the draft.

Fact is, we had no way of knowing he'd still be available when we struck that trade.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Wasn’t too big on Matt Kennedy but his form in recent weeks has showed me how important his extra physicality is in there. We don’t get bullied.

Plays a bit like Taylor Adams. Don't like Adams but you need that big bodied battering ram in their at all times and it cant always be Cripps. Reckon Kennedy is old fashioned tough as well.

 

[Robertio]

It doesn't matter who was selected. Cory Durdin for all we know could turn out to be a dud or the gem of the draft.

Fact is, we had no way of knowing he'd still be available when we struck that trade.

I was just correcting the trade you put up, had nothing to do with Corey Durdin.

 

[Poorman53]

So we are in agreement that the Dodoro method is ridiculous and that it clearly hasn't served * well.

By saying that Geelong's method of being prepared to pay overs (if needs be) has worked well I am speaking about their overall on field performance, not any individual trade.

My personal preference is that we run our recruiting department more like Geelong than *. If that means that we don't "win" every trade then so be it.

From last years trade/draft period we got Williams, Saad, Durdin, Carroll and Parks. Saad has been an excellent performer.

I was of the belief that as this is an internet forum for discussion about opinions relating to our club. Having a discussion about your opinion hardly qualifies as being hot and bothered

Ask Tim Kelly and WC if Geelong are easy to deal with. He was forced to wait an extra 12 months and got a lot for him. Similar with the Giants and Cameron.

Sure Geelong can be easy to deal with at times but generally on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier deals.

 

[T2B_]

I mean, Clarko isn't wrong to be apprehensive about that stuff.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Ask Tim Kelly and WC if Geelong are easy to deal with. He was forced to wait an extra 12 months and got a lot for him. Similar with the Giants and Cameron.

Sure Geelong can be easy to deal with at times but generally on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier deals.

Fair enough.

We did the same with Gibbs.

I'm still happy with with Saad and Durdin for Zach Reid (pick 8 which went out to 10) but Reid is out injured and may end up being a good player, I can understand that others think that it was not a good deal.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Who are our actual big earners? Cripps took a pay cut.

Harry & Williams are the 2 I can think of. J Martin was front loaded and isn't on too much now, Saad wasn't too much, $700k or so? Think we'll be able to sort out Walsh fairly easily.

edit Just remembered Charlie is on about $800k or so. Easy to forget as he's not been around much!

Just try to do the maths. in 2021 there's $13.4 million salary cap

How much is Crippa, H, Williams, Saad, Martin, CC & McGov on already?
I'll throw some will numbers just for demonstration purposes (feel free to correct if you know the actual numbers):

• Crippa $900K
• H $800K
• Williams $800K
• Saad $700K
• Martin $600K
• McGov $600K
• CC $800K

That's $5.2m already for these 7 players
$8.2m remaining divide by the remaining 33 players (assuming 40 in the list) = $~250K per player - which is as expected right?

So we are going to lose a few of these ~$250K players and find room for Walsh who will command $900K per season.
None of the players listed above are going to end their contract any time soon (refer to this https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...list-and-contract-status.368412/post-70736779)

So how would we find another $700K for Cerra - too hard basket I would say.
Concentrate on finding $900K for Walsh instead - that got to be our priority!

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So we are in agreement that the Dodoro method is ridiculous and that it clearly hasn't served * well.

By saying that Geelong's method of being prepared to pay overs (if needs be) has worked well I am speaking about their overall on field performance, not any individual trade.

My personal preference is that we run our recruiting department more like Geelong than *. If that means that we don't "win" every trade then so be it.

From last years trade/draft period we got Williams, Saad, Durdin, Carroll and Parks. Saad has been an excellent performer.

I was of the belief that as this is an internet forum for discussion about opinions relating to our club. Having a discussion about your opinion hardly qualifies as being hot and bothered

So then why accuse me of having an agenda to take a crack at Austin?

Every list manager has wins and losses at the trade table. I just think that was a loss. We move on, yes, but my point about Dodoro was past dealings influence the future. Not that I agree with how Dodoro operates. Baffling how you could extrapolate that out of what I said...

Geelong's on field performance would be better with Harry or Charlie over Hendo, there's no doubt about that. Without even considering the obvious that Harry and Charlie are better players than Hendo, consider what Geelong could have done with those 3 first rounders they gave up for Jezza? They would have no need to chase him last year and could have put those 3 first round picks to improve other areas of their list.

My personal preference is we only deal if we are getting fair compensation for what we're giving up. We are still rebuilding so early draft picks are like gold for us. We are not in Geelong's position where we are close to a flag and could do with a top up rather than waiting a couple of years for a draftee to come good.

Giving our first up for Cerra would be reasonable, no doubt. But the fact we gave up our first for Saad last year is definitely going to weigh into the Docker's minds and influence their asking price and they'll use that Saad trade to justify it.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I was just correcting the trade you put up, had nothing to do with Corey Durdin.

So why mention his name then rather than the picks?

Fact is, it was a token pick in what was deemed a thin draft and the meat of the trade was Saad for pick 8.

 

[Robertio]

So why mention his name then rather than the picks?

Fact is, it was a token pick in what was deemed a thin draft and the meat of the trade was Saad for pick 8.

Don't come back at me mate. you got it wrong.

 

[Arr0w]

This joint needs a game of footy

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Once again don't agree.

Saad rated 2nd best general defender so can hardly be described as a bust.

It's not a bad thing to be seen as a good club to deal with.

Maybe the only thing that we did wrong was to identify a piece of the puzzle that we thought would make us significantly better from *. Once we made promises it was up to us to get it done. Hopefully in the future we won't bother with *.

Nowhere did he suggest Saad was a bust... he clearly isn't.

There's no reason we can't be smart as well as a good club to deal with...

We put pick 8 on the table very early on in negotiations and once we did that... we couldn't back away.

 

[Poorman53]

Fair enough.

We did the same with Gibbs.

I'm still happy with with Saad and Durdin for Zach Reid (pick 8 which went out to 10) but Reid is out injured and may end up being a good player, I can understand that others think that it was not a good deal.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Don't come back at me mate. you got it wrong.

The steak knives are never the focal discussion of a trade.

 

[Arr0w]

Nowhere did he suggest Saad was a bust... he clearly isn't.

There's no reason we can't be smart as well as a good club to deal with...

We put pick 8 on the table very early on in negotiations and once we did that... we couldn't back away.

How do you know when we put up pick 8 and whether we put forward other offers before hand?

 

[Metalcrusher]

How do you know when we put up pick 8 and whether we put forward other offers before hand?

BF knows we were dealing with Dodo yeah?